Wrong Kind of Customer?

[Highspen]

This post could well turn out to generate a bit of controversy.

I was chatting to my Mitsu salesman about the sales enquiries he was receiving, and what kind of customer was showing interest in the PHEV (there was a recent full page Mitsu PHEV advert in New Scientist). His reply was interesting.

There is the usual smattering of mothers wanting a big four-wheel-drive for the private school run, then there are the engineers who completely "get" the PHEV and want to discuss the technology. There is also a healthy showing of retirees on a good pension looking to make a smart choice.

He then frowned and said that he had been receiving a number of enquiries and demonstration drives lately from UK company car drivers - managers and salesmen who drove Audis and BMWs who had heard about the tax benefits that the PHEV delivers in the UK market.

He was quite disheartened by this group. Whereas most enquiries come from people interested in the technology and economy aspects of the car, this new group could not care less about the batteries, the reduced fuel consumption, the ecology and the technology. They are high-milege drivers who only want the "Benefit In Kind" tax relief and the Fuel Relief and have said that they will probably sit on the motorway with their right foot planted hard, so they were not in the slightest bit interested in the extraordinary fuel ecomony and the low carbon emissions.

I don't know about you, but I am a little disappointed with my fellow man at this news, and I am sure that the Tax Man did not have this sort of attitude in mind when he devised the Hybrid/EV tax relief structure. Here we have a conflict of care for the environment, reduction in the reliance of fossil fuel importing and the creation of new technological advances on one side of the equation and Personal Tax Benefit on the other.

Discuss..........

;-)

.... am I getting old?

 

[maddogsetc]

Well, I agree that the BIK incentive is likely to appeal to many who would not have otherwise considered this car (indeed it was a key factor for me). And as many of these folks will not be paying for most of their mileage they will not have the same incentive to minimize fuel consumption and running costs.

So yes, I fear there will be a contingent who choose this vehicle with no intention ever to even plug the car in (except perhaps for their own private mileage). But my guess is that even this group will be sufficiently curious to at least experiment with the hybrid technology.

And the more of these things that are shifted the greater will be the willingness of other manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon and give us more choice.

If HM Govt stick to the current plan the BIK incentive reduces radically soon anyway, so it could well be a short lived phenomenon. I for one suspect we will see significant change in the fiscal treatment of company cars as they will want to continue to encourage take up but avoid the exact dilemma that you describe. In much the same way that BIK was linked to CO2 emissions instead of engine size some years ago.

Thanks for posting by the way - love to debate these kind of issues

 

[maby]

I'm on record saying that I don't think many people will be able to justify the car in terms of fuel economy - it is clearly a method of tax avoidance. There will be some who do less than 30 miles per day - many of which will be relatively slow, non-motorway miles - and they will see the high headline fuel economy - but I would question whether or not most of them really need a relatively large 4WD estate. Most of them could get along perfectly well on a far cheaper conventional car and they will not recover the price difference in terms of improved fuel economy within any realistic lifetime of the car.

For the majority of drivers, the hybrid systems in the Outlander do just enough to avoid all sorts of taxes and that is the attraction. We'll do something like 40 miles per week of short journeys during week days which will be mostly, if not entirely, electric - and a couple of hundred each weekend which will be almost entirely petrol - I've modelled it and guess that we'll get a fuel economy of around 65 MPGE - a Skoda Fabia will do similar and will cost £20k less if it were not for the various tax breaks.

We're buying the car because we need a new automatic 4WD estate - the old diesel Landcruiser is soon going to become unreliable. We looked at the Outlander and liked it - our pattern of usage is such that we probably should be buying the diesel version, but the tax breaks as a company vehicle tipped the decision.

 

[maby]

Incidentally, there will be no option for us to charge at the weekend, so that will be all petrol. I will plug up during the week, but doing four or five miles most days, the impact on the running costs (or environment) will be minimal.

The company is ours, so we benefit form both the company tax breaks and the low BIK. We'll keep it as a company car till the BIK begins to ramp up, then sell it to ourselves at a depreciated price.

 

[Hypermiler]

Interesting that the dealer wasn't rubbing his hands at the thought of stealing custom from BMW etc.

As a fairly environmentally conscious person that is a bit depressing - I hadn't thought about it that way. We are private owners so no BIK driving our purchase, just the need for a newer, bigger, fun car that can run on solar power when we finally get round to installing some panels! And we plug it in religiously. Model customers.

I always wonder at the petrol-guzzling way people drive, even with fuel the price it is - driving too close, exceeding speed limits, accelerating and braking hard and unnecessarily, it drives me crazy. Perhaps they all have their fuel paid for by companies. :roll:

Perhaps petrol should be rationed - if we all had a personal quota perhaps we would be a bit more careful how we used it...
Or, hey - why not tax it heavily...no, wait, I think we've tried that!

H

 

[maby]

Interesting that the dealer wasn't rubbing his hands at the thought of stealing custom from BMW etc.

As a fairly environmentally conscious person that is a bit depressing - I hadn't thought about it that way. We are private owners so no BIK driving our purchase, just the need for a newer, bigger, fun car that can run on solar power when we finally get round to installing some panels! And we plug it in religiously. Model customers.

I always wonder at the petrol-guzzling way people drive, even with fuel the price it is - driving too close, exceeding speed limits, accelerating and braking hard and unnecessarily, it drives me crazy. Perhaps they all have their fuel paid for by companies. :roll:

Perhaps petrol should be rationed - if we all had a personal quota perhaps we would be a bit more careful how we used it...
Or, hey - why not tax it heavily...no, wait, I think we've tried that!

H

For a lot of people, the Outlander barely makes economic sense - your own signature line is advertising 61 mpg!

I just repeated my modelling exercise - and bear in mind that I'm comparing with an enormous gas-guzzling diesel! Doing a relatively average 12,000 miles per year, over 10 years the Outlander will save me about £25,000 at current fuel prices - and the car will have cost £35,000 before tax breaks. You can buy a serviceable diesel 4WD a few years old for £5,000 these days - it's hard to give them away - the chances are that I'll actually save money by buying a Discovery or similar about eight or nine years old!

 

[jaapv]

Well, I agree that the BIK incentive is likely to appeal to many who would not have otherwise considered this car (indeed it was a key factor for me). And as many of these folks will not be paying for most of their mileage they will not have the same incentive to minimize fuel consumption and running costs.

So yes, I fear there will be a contingent who choose this vehicle with no intention ever to even plug the car in (except perhaps for their own private mileage). But my guess is that even this group will be sufficiently curious to at least experiment with the hybrid technology.

And the more of these things that are shifted the greater will be the willingness of other manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon and give us more choice.

If HM Govt stick to the current plan the BIK incentive reduces radically soon anyway, so it could well be a short lived phenomenon. I for one suspect we will see significant change in the fiscal treatment of company cars as they will want to continue to encourage take up but avoid the exact dilemma that you describe. In much the same way that BIK was linked to CO2 emissions instead of engine size some years ago.

Thanks for posting by the way - love to debate these kind of issues

And when these will experiment with plugging in, they'll find that the car drives (even) much nicer in electric mode.

 

[Phever]

save money by buying an old Land Rover? i take it you've never owned one! allow 3k+ per year for fixing stuff, and then you have a sensible model.

against an old jap 4x4, maybe this stands up better.

if mitsubishi are making so much money they can afford to worry about who is actually buying their cars, then good for them. look at how the bentley buyer demographic changed. will the bentley bean counters and shareholders be bothered? not likely.

 

[maby]

save money by buying an old Land Rover? i take it you've never owned one! allow 3k+ per year for fixing stuff, and then you have a sensible model.

against an old jap 4x4, maybe this stands up better.

if mitsubishi are making so much money they can afford to worry about who is actually buying their cars, then good for them. look at how the bentley buyer demographic changed. will the bentley bean counters and shareholders be bothered? not likely.

I have had both ancient Landrovers and new Landrovers - and I will agree that an 8 year old Discovery is probably a poor choice as an example - substitute a middle aged Landcruiser - still very cheap these days!

Actually, I only have to achieve 40mpg and my ten year saving reduces to less than £8000 - I could spend £20000 on an alternative car and still come out in-pocket.

 

[Sharky]

I'll be honest here, my main reason for the Outlander is the BIK saving aprox £370 a month for me. I live within 4 miles of my work place so it will be charged every day and I will take advantage of that. I do however do some work miles up and down the country with probably no chance to charge overnight at a hotel. And before anybody asks I would not select a hotel on the basis it has a charge point! As an engineer I am interested in the mechanics, but I did not buy it because of that. My previous car was a E250 merc estate and did 50 to the gallon most of the time. The Outlander was never on my radar until I looked at the savings to me. The tax man has forced me (happily I might add) down this route and I suspect 50% of the UK sales are in the same boat. Every year the BIK will increase so have predicted my costs going forward, however I do suspect when the civil servants realise what's happening they will move the goal post again. BMW, Merc will no doubt come up with their version to stop the drift away from the company car drivers. The Outlander has I believe, firmly set the bench mark and for a while will tempt those who would never normally consider such a brand. When the others BMW Audi Merc etc.. do catch up the sales man will wish these undesirables were still coming!

 

[jaapv]

You'd be surprised how many hotels will allow you to charge your car if you ask nicely

 

[maby]

You'd be surprised how many hotels will allow you to charge your car if you ask nicely

Small ones, possibly. The majority of large hotels round here have car parks that are well removed from the buildings - you are not going to plug half a dozen extension leads together and feed the result through an open window to get a charge!

 

[Chrispyduck]

The PHEV ticked all of the boxes for me as I wanted a big car (family and dog), that was automatic and with 4 x4 capability as we live on an unmade road on a hill. My BMW is useless in the winter.

The BIK on most diesels with these credentials (auto and 4x4) made them way too expensive to consider.

I will charge at home and also at my office which is 30 miles away. I know that the hybrid technology will make me want to get the best from the car.

For my longer journeys the overall MPG will still be better than my current and alternative diesel vehicles.

The £8k BIK saving over 3 years is also very attractive but that doesn't mean that I will try to cheat the system by just running on and burning petrol.

Delivery only 23 days away and very excited......

 

[jaapv]

You'd be surprised how many hotels will allow you to charge your car if you ask nicely

Small ones, possibly. The majority of large hotels round here have car parks that are well removed from the buildings - you are not going to plug half a dozen extension leads together and feed the result through an open window to get a charge!

The most recent one I found was Tortworth Court, Wotton-under-Edge, not exactly a small hotel....

It was not listed, but they had a charge point when I inquired.

It would be nice if people would list these finds on the Forum. I'll start a thread

 

[user 417]

I probably bought mine for the wrong reasons too. I bought it because I'm really excited about the whole concept. I have been watching EVs for years and for a long time came to the conclusion that the technology was not ready yet - I didn't want to be towed home on a regular basis when the battery goes flat. Then the Chevy Volt / Vauxhall Ampera came along and I thought "Bingo!", that's the right way to do it, but it wasn't right for me because I live somewhere where a soft-roader is pretty useful. So the PHEV is good for me.

We've also tried other "alternative" concepts in motoring - at one stage we owned three cars with LPG conversions. This is probably not the future in the UK though.

We will benefit from quite a few all-electric journeys, but I also do some quite long journeys sometimes. I used to be a high mileage driver but recently it's dropped a bit, and my wife and I probably only do 20k-ish between us, with three cars and a lorry. So I might not get the best value, compared to a thrifty older diesel car, but in this car I will love every mile that I do on electricity and will love every bit of electricity that I claw back on regenerative braking.

 

[user 417]

Should we start a directory of hotels with charging points? I stayed at one recently for a conference and there was a charging point accessible to the car park and when I enquired it was for guest use. It was the standard Polar charger, the same as some of us have installed at home.

Lovely hotel too. Best Western Wroxton House Hotel near Banbury.

 

[Hypermiler]

dmd - FYI I believe pretty much all Best Western hotels in UK have chargers. And maby- my mpg per fuelly signature includes 2 holidays totalling around 1500 miles with extremely limited charging and isn't representative of my normal driving!
H

 

[dukeinlondon]

We bought it because the fuel saving for our mostly suburban short distance trips considerably narrowed the cost difference with keeping our 10 year old Audi going.

It allowed us to go for a largish SUV, which comes to its own when we go somewhere for the weekend. Whilst not amazing, the long distance MPG is similar to what our 10 year old diesel managed.

But that was the business case :lol: in reality, only the prospect of driving an EV could get me to even consider changing cars. The old diesel was an Audi convertible so the replacement had to be something interesting. I remember trying the Lexus GX400 years ago and regretting that it could not do more on electricity alone.

The good thing is that a lot of those who bought it for the BiK saving actually seem to grow fond of the car. When similar power-trains become available on their favourite badge, they are less likely to consider it a pointless gadget. But Mitsu will have to up its game on the in-car finish and equipment if they want to keep them in 3 years time !

 

[maby]

...
The good thing is that a lot of those who bought it for the BiK saving actually seem to grow fond of the car. When similar power-trains become available on their favourite badge, they are less likely to consider it a pointless gadget. But Mitsu will have to up its game on the in-car finish and equipment if they want to keep them in 3 years time !

I expect to be very fond of the car - but for its comfort, functionality and handling. I would probably be equally fond of the diesel Outlander, but it would cost us a lot more money. Actually, I probably would not be so happy - having driven a Prius for several years, I'm very fond of electric transmission - I used to get through clutches at an alarming rate.

 

[maddogsetc]

When similar power-trains become available on their favourite badge, they are less likely to consider it a pointless gadget. But Mitsu will have to up its game on the in-car finish and equipment if they want to keep them in 3 years time !

Agree with this entirely. It's clear that most PHEV buyers are not trading up from another Mitsubishi so as other brands catch up they are likely to lose many of those customers back unless the next offering is a real step forward. Personally I'm watching the imminent launch of the Discovery Sport and hoping there'll be a plug-in planned somewhere down the line.