Who is ready to adjust the Phev to get EV only mode?

[Trex]

Hi,

After reading the discussions on this forum about suggestions like, a ev only button or stopping the petrol motor starting if you have a electric heater or a towing enhanced charge button, but what lengths would you go to achieve that improvement.

I would like the ev only button myself ie push your foot flat to the floor on the accelerator pedal and not start petrol motor when travelling at slower speeds around town. I hate the way the petrol motor can start up for a short time accidently if you are not careful with your foot, but not for using fuel, but the sudden load on the petrol motor when it has not been " warmed up " ie oil pressure up and oil circulated before a sudden burst of revs. As a mechanical engineer (not ICE engines but pulled them apart and fixed them ) it gives me a bad feeling when I hear it. I have even gone to the trouble of getting rid of the about 5km of ev range ( or SOC), when the hv battery is full, in slow speed areas so the charge or save button would start the petrol motor before hitting the on ramp of the freeway( I live 2.5ks from on ramp ). I know that could be considered anal. :lol: but I like to look after my machinery and I very seldom have any problems with breakdowns.

This ev only button could include the not starting the petrol motor when heating if you have the electric heater option. Does not matter for me as our climate is mild in the part of Aus where I live. The ECO button could be used.

Now who would be willing to patch their Phevs to achieve a ev only mode ( or some other improvement) or are you too fearful because of say warranty or lease considerations. In favor of coding adjustment we already have the network schematic on this forum. Against we do not have OBD-II codes but there are plenty of network sniffing tools and software available. Access to a MUT-III may also be required.

Are there any network technicians on this forum who have something to say about this topic? I myself have only done a little in mainly PLC programming and installations.

Or we could try to petition Mitsubishi to achieve these improvements.

Regards Trex.

ps By watching the power gauge and 11 months of ownership of the Phev I can nearly always stay in ev mode but it can be bloody annoying having to worry about it.

 

[Trex]

Hi, just to add to the above post,

For anyone that would be willing to modify their Phev (or not ) but think it would be impossible to achieve I like to remind you that there are plenty of people all over the world that do patch , or adjust the coding of the computers on their cars, to achieve a certain improvement for themselves.

But in our case of Phev's coding adjustment (that sounds better ) we would need in simple terms :

1. A defined goal ie EV only mode.
2. Knowledge and equipment of how to achieve that goal. This can sometimes mean trial and error but a thorough testing of results.
3. Perseverance and what I like to think of as a can-do attitude.

Do we have what it takes? Yes we could also somehow just disable the petrol motor but that could be considered the blunt approach with warning lights etc. but it is something we could try.

Regards Trex.

 

[maby]

Are you proposing to patch the firmware? That seems very unlikely to be successful, and has significant risk of disabling your car, unless you have access to the source code from Mitsubishi.

P.S. I do have experience programming the microcontrollers that are commonly used in automotive applications, so I have access to the necessary kit. There will be several (probably quite a large number) in the PHEV, so the first problem (in the absence of a schematic) will be identifying which controls the power flow. If Mitsu are not prepared to let us have the source code for the programs, then we would have to try to reverse engineer it. How successful we would be with that depends on the lengths to which they have gone to stop us - often manufacturers will lock down the microcontrollers in order to protect their trade secrets.

I'm not sure if it would be feasible to reverse engineer and reprogram over the CAN bus. It is more common to reprogram microcontrollers via the ICP (In-circuit Programming) port on the device - that will require gaining physical access to the controller.

If you can gain access to the necessary information, I would be interested in getting involved - I do have a lot of the IT knowledge to do it. As you know, my interest is not in an EV mode, but I would like to see a "Prius mode" for long trips away from home. But I certainly would not want to be the guinea pig - far too much scope for a totally dead car!

 

[sege]

The ICE doesn't start when out of petrol? Wouldn't it be possible to rewire something with a resistor and a switch for a simple solution?

Or any other way to fool the ICE not to start without touching the firmware.

 

[Trex]

Hi,

Getting some interesting replies already, thanks. Will try to make a more considered reply tomorrow. Getting too tired to think clearly.

But another maybe another simple way of keeping the petrol motor off would be a removable restrictor on the accelerator pedal, would have to be secure, but that would not help the electric heater problem.

Catch you tomorrow.

Regards Trex.

 

[maby]

Hi,

Getting some interesting replies already, thanks. Will try to make a more considered reply tomorrow. Getting too tired to think clearly.

But another maybe another simple way of keeping the petrol motor off would be a removable restrictor on the accelerator pedal, would have to be secure, but that would not help the electric heater problem.

Catch you tomorrow.

Regards Trex.

I'm not convinced that any mechanical solution such as restricting the accelerator pedal (or leaving the fuel tank empty) is a great idea - the next time you find yourself half way across a junction with an idiot (or possibly an ambulance) bearing down on you at high speed, you will want the freedom to floor the accelerator, burn half a gallon of petrol, and get the hell out of the way!

No, if anyone is going to "hack" the car, then the focus should be on being able to adjust the various parameters of the control algorithms to get the behaviour you want, but with safeguards built in.

 

[Trex]

Hi,

Getting some interesting replies already, thanks. Will try to make a more considered reply tomorrow. Getting too tired to think clearly.

But another maybe another simple way of keeping the petrol motor off would be a removable restrictor on the accelerator pedal, would have to be secure, but that would not help the electric heater problem.

Catch you tomorrow.

Regards Trex.

I'm not convinced that any mechanical solution such as restricting the accelerator pedal (or leaving the fuel tank empty) is a great idea - the next time you find yourself half way across a junction with an idiot (or possibly an ambulance) bearing down on you at high speed, you will want the freedom to floor the accelerator, burn half a gallon of petrol, and get the hell out of the way!

No, if anyone is going to "hack" the car, then the focus should be on being able to adjust the various parameters of the control algorithms to get the behaviour you want, but with safeguards built in.

Maby, that restrictor could have a soft or gated stop ie press down hard and still have full power.

Regards Trex.

 

[maby]

.....

Maby, that restrictor could a soft or gated stop ie press down hard and still have full power.

Regards Trex.

There is one of them already - currently just overrides the speed limiter (and, possibly, ECO mode) - I guess it would be reprogrammed under your proposal...

 

[Ozukus]

Interesting to see a thread that basically the result would be to void the entire warranty on a vehicle that costs between £30K and £40K dependent upon the model purchased.

Thought this forum was for exchanging information about our beloved PHEV not a site to discuss illegal activities, of which reverse engineering someone's patented code is.

 

[jaapv]

Hi,

Getting some interesting replies already, thanks. Will try to make a more considered reply tomorrow. Getting too tired to think clearly.

But another maybe another simple way of keeping the petrol motor off would be a removable restrictor on the accelerator pedal, would have to be secure, but that would not help the electric heater problem.

Catch you tomorrow.

Regards Trex.

And would be bloddy dangerous, and illegal, as it would prevent the car from supplying full power without technical need, which would make you liable in any accident.

 

[maby]

Interesting to see a thread that basically the result would be to void the entire warranty on a vehicle that costs between £30K and £40K dependent upon the model purchased.

Thought this forum was for exchanging information about our beloved PHEV not a site to discuss illegal activities, of which reverse engineering someone's patented code is.

I think you'll find that the laws on reverse engineering are not quite so clear cut, at least in Europe. You are certainly not allowed to reverse engineer and sell the result, but I believe there was an EU ruling that we are allowed to reverse engineer in order to modify for our own benefit. It's the software analogue of modifying the mechanical systems of your car - you would be breaking the law if you took an Outlander apart, copied all the components and sold a clone, but you are not breaking the law if you take it apart, make modifications and reassemble it for your own benefit.

 

[MartinH]

I think we complicats this way to much, if the software doesnt stops this.
To not have the ICE to start is very simple, I assume the ICE has a normal starter, just put a switch on the solenoid of the starter on the engine, you can have a switch inside the car, or you can build other "rules" for it to kick in, very simple, no modification of the car, you can easy put it back to normal again, in worst case you will get a error code, that might be a generic OBD2 code that is simple to erase yourself before service.
Or the you will get a question when the car is at the work shop if the Engine has missed to start some time, and then "you don´t have a clue?"
My only concern is if the ICE does not start, will the car just light a warning, or will it go turtle?

 

[jaapv]

Your dashboard will light up like a pinball machine with warnings...

 

[jaapv]

Interesting to see a thread that basically the result would be to void the entire warranty on a vehicle that costs between £30K and £40K dependent upon the model purchased.

Thought this forum was for exchanging information about our beloved PHEV not a site to discuss illegal activities, of which reverse engineering someone's patented code is.

I think you'll find that the laws on reverse engineering are not quite so clear cut, at least in Europe. You are certainly not allowed to reverse engineer and sell the result, but I believe there was an EU ruling that we are allowed to reverse engineer in order to modify for our own benefit. It's the software analogue of modifying the mechanical systems of your car - you would be breaking the law if you took an Outlander apart, copied all the components and sold a clone, but you are not breaking the law if you take it apart, make modifications and reassemble it for your own benefit.

But you would run into trouble at MOT. If you make substantial changes to your car there would be an obligation to have it re-certified as roadworthy. For one thing, at least over here, you must be able to prove a CE certification even if you fit a slash bar or sidebars.
Otherwise you lose your insurance as well.
If you mke changes that affect emissions (even if positively) you will have to redo the whole official emission test procedure - EU approved efficiency run, measurements etc. in order to retain the tax advantages... It may well be the reason that Mitsubishi will not make this relatively simple change.

 

[maby]

.....

But you would run into trouble at MOT. If you make substantial changes to your car there would be an obligation to have it re-certified as roadworthy. For one thing, at least over here, you must be able to prove a CE certification even if you fit a slash bar or sidebars.
Otherwise you lose your insurance as well.

That certainly is a potential issue, I agree. I was only addressing the potential copyright violations of reverse engineering the firmware. "Chipping" the EMU of a car is not uncommon - does that violate certifications? Back in the days of purely mechanical cars, it was a lot less complicated - I swapped carbs on cars to try to improve performance and the MOT testers never blinked. These days, the electronics control all sorts of things including brakes and vehicle stability systems - an error patching the EMU to bring up performance could have more far reaching impact if you get it wrong.

 

[paa451843]

I think we complicats this way to much, if the software doesnt stops this.
To not have the ICE to start is very simple, I assume the ICE has a normal starter, just put a switch on the solenoid of the starter on the engine, you can have a switch inside the car, or you can build other "rules" for it to kick in, very simple, no modification of the car, you can easy put it back to normal again, in worst case you will get a error code, that might be a generic OBD2 code that is simple to erase yourself before service.
Or the you will get a question when the car is at the work shop if the Engine has missed to start some time, and then "you don´t have a clue?"
My only concern is if the ICE does not start, will the car just light a warning, or will it go turtle?

Nice thinking but the ICE don`t have a traditionally starter. The generator starts the ICE.
Just forget it, preheat and drive gently...

 

[jaapv]

.....

But you would run into trouble at MOT. If you make substantial changes to your car there would be an obligation to have it re-certified as roadworthy. For one thing, at least over here, you must be able to prove a CE certification even if you fit a slash bar or sidebars.
Otherwise you lose your insurance as well.

That certainly is a potential issue, I agree. I was only addressing the potential copyright violations of reverse engineering the firmware. "Chipping" the EMU of a car is not uncommon - does that violate certifications? Back in the days of purely mechanical cars, it was a lot less complicated - I swapped carbs on cars to try to improve performance and the MOT testers never blinked. These days, the electronics control all sorts of things including brakes and vehicle stability systems - an error patching the EMU to bring up performance could have more far reaching impact if you get it wrong.

Over here chipping can only be done by certified workshops that use approved techniques. Otherwise one has to revert to the original configuration at each MOT.

 

[RazMan]

It is worth mentioning that any warning lights on the dash mean a failed MOT (at least in the UK) I recently had this very same problem on my old Mercedes which had a steering sensor warning light which refused to go out - the sensor was fine but the warning light was faulty! Bloomin' thing cost £600 to fix!!

I am always up for a bit of hacking - personally I would like to allow more torque from a standing start (for those tricky moments when you REALLY wish you had another inch of pedal movement while a London taxi threatens to T-Bone you :twisted I'm not talking about getting enough power to take on the drag cars at Santa Pod - just changing the power curve to make things safer. Electric motors are capable of maximum torque from practically zero revs and I would like to be able to exploit this a little

 

[jaapv]

If you can anticipate and switch to charge you'll find the car much more responsive, as the ICE will not have to start to deliver full power.

 

[RazMan]

If you can anticipate and switch to charge you'll find the car much more responsive, as the ICE will not have to start to deliver full power.

I completely agree and the 'Phevrolet' becomes quite nippy when using Charge mode like this.

Now, if only I can ask the London taxi drivers to be a bit more predictable my problem will be solved :lol: