What happens if the EV is non-functional

[Tabvla]

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Assume that one is in a very remote location, far from human habitation and in an area without mobile phone reception.

Also assume that for some reason a fault develops on the EV system and the computer shuts the entire system down.

Q1 - Will the ICE still work independently of the EV and start from the 12v battery? Could one start the vehicle and drive it to a service centre on the ICE alone?

Q2 - Will auxcillary systems still work? For example, would an electrical point such as the cigarette-lighter socket be able to power 12v accessories?

Q3 - Will the SATNAV work?

Q4 - Will the heater work?

Q5 - If the EV system is completely non-functional, what systems won't be operational?

Thanks

T.

 

[jaapv]

If the car develops a serious fault it will shut down completely. Better start sending smoke signals in that case.

 

[Tabvla]

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If the car develops a serious fault it will shut down completely. Better start sending smoke signals in that case.

Jaapv, thanks for your reply.

If I understand you correctly, the ICE is therefore not able to function independently of the EV. Is that correct?

If the EV develops a fault then the ICE is just a lump of metal? That surprises me. :!:

Mitsubishi engineers have invested a considerable amount of technical innovation into this vehicle. It would seem like an inexplicable oversight for them not to have engineered the EV and ICE to operate independently should one of them develop a terminal fault. My understanding is that the EV can work without the ICE. Logically one would assume that the ICE could work independently of the EV.

Since starting this Thread I have done some further research which indicates that the ICE does operate independently of the EV....... as described below...

Back in 2012-2013 the PHEV developed problems relating to a serious fault within the Li-ion battery which resulted in "dead" unchargable batteries and even a fire in a dealership's showroom. These events resulted in a 5-month shutdown of the PHEV production line. I believe that at that time, Mitsubish did not have a clear understanding of what the problem was and therefore did not know how to correct the problem and therefore did not issue a full product recall. To enable PHEV owners to continue using the vehicles, Mitsubishi issued a directive to all PHEV owners to stop using the EV and to run the vehicle purely as an ICE vehicle.

That must surely indicate that the EV and the ICE can function independently.

I would really appreciate some clarity on this question........ Are there any Mitsubishi engineers who are members of this Forum...?

Thanks.

T.

 

[maddogsetc]

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious but doesn't the ICE only drive the wheels directly at higher speeds? I don't believe there is a gearbox of any description, which would surely mean that the PHEV would be unable to pull away from a standstill in ICE mode only?

 

[Fragge]

The ICE can engage and drive the front wheels at any speed through a CVT. If you floor the accelerator from a standstill the ICE will engage and help out the electric motors for maximum power. That said I'm unsure if the ICE can power the car forward alone if the electrical motors fail for some reason, I think that it can.

 

[Tabvla]

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Thank you Maddogsetc and Fragge for your replies.

The ICE can engage and drive the front wheels at any speed through a CVT. If you floor the accelerator from a standstill the ICE will engage and help out the electric motors for maximum power......

Absolutely correct. The ICE / CVT combination is operational at any speed - even from standstill.

What I don't quite comprehend is how do you start the ICE if the EV is non-functional? If the EV is non-functional and you press "START" will the ICE then start? Starting appears to be completely dependent upon an operational EV. Normally at start you would wait for the "Ready" message and then start. If the EV is non-functional you won't get the "Ready" message.

Is that correct or am I missing something very obvious?

And, if the ICE cannot be operated independently of the EV then the directive given by Mitsubishi to PHEV owners doesn't make much sense.

T.

 

[IgorTr]

That said I'm unsure if the ICE can power the car forward alone if the electrical motors fail for some reason, I think that it can.

NO, it can't. There is no CVT. Just one gear (something like 5th gear in traditional gearbox ) and simple clutch with two positions: On and Off.
This clutch could not be on until speed is below 70 kph, because this will drop engine speed below working range and stop it.

Also, there is no 12V starter. High voltage generator act as a starter(uses main battery to spin) and it's a part of HV system.
So, you can't fire up ICE if battery or inverter have problems.

There is a small 12V battery to power most of aux systems - they will work. At least you can connect to this battery directly to terminals.
This is safe, because HV-system is isolated completly, even "ground".

UPD. About the recall. It was related to charging while car parked. I can imagine, that the problem is due the thermal problems.
Parking = no air cooling. When "Save" or "Charge" modes on ( this is suggested by mitsu ) - battery current is lower than at pure-EV,
because ICE+Generator is used to power the motors( at least partaly) , and cooling is much better, so the problem is not critical anymore.

 

[Fragge]

After further analysis I think IgorTr is correct. I always assumed that the engine revving up when you floor the accelerator was the engine engaging through a CVT (some reviews I have read also stated it has a CVT). But if you look at this video you can clearly see that the engine only drives the wheels directly over 120-130 km/h.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbOmtzFj14M

 

[jaapv]

The revving of the engine one hears when pressing down the accelerator is the ICE operating in serial hybrid mode, i.e. driving the generator which feeds and supplements the batteries, not the ICE driving the front wheels.

When it operates in parallel mode the engine revs are determined by vehicle speed as the engine is linked directly to the front wheels. There is still some electric power delivered to the rear wheels..

When the car is in parallel mode the generator is driven by the ICE as well, and it will charge the battery at speeds up to 120 KpH, over that speed there is no power left to charge.

It is easy to see what mode the car is in by either the small symbols between the dials or by the info display on the large screen.

The 12 V battery is charged off the main battery. The car will not start up if the auxiliary battery is drained, but in that case it can be started using jump leads to another battery.
When the car is not operating it will still top up the 12 V from the main battery on a daily basis, if possible.

If the car is stationary in charge mode the ICE will be running to drive the generator. It cannot power the car independently, as there is no CVT to convert the engine revs at low speeds under 70 KpH. Over 70 KpH it can and will do so if the battery power drops so low that the car goes into emergency power mode. I have never seen this mode.

After driving the car for nearly 20.000 Km over the last five months in all conditions I can attest that the whole system works smoothly and flawlessly.

 

[Tabvla]

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Thanks for the really helpful and informed replies. I think some members of this Forum know more than the "experts" from the motoring magazines.

As Fragge has noted, there is considerable confusion over the CVT (or not).... just look at these quotes from reputable motoring magazines. Reviewers should really know what they are talking about BEFORE they put things into print.

Green Car Motoring : "...the CVT (continuously variable transmission) can cause the petrol engine's revs to soar unexpectedly..."

Motoring Research : "... PHEV Specification...Engine 2.0-litre petrol plus two electric motors, Drivetrain Twin Motor 4WD, CVT automatic..."

Drive Australia : "....A reduction gear transaxle also separates the Outlander PHEV from its conventional cousins... as it has no CVT...."

I now agree with IgorTr and Drive Australia - there is NO CVT. The ICE connects directly to the front wheels through a reduction gear transaxle.

Therefore, to answer the original question. If the EV system becomes non-operational then the ICE is simply a lump of metal

T.

 

[Fragge]

After observing the behavior for a while I noted that the ICE engages and drives the front wheels at 70 km/h and above when the battery is drained.

 

[jaapv]

Correct. And below that it will switch in and out of series hybrid mode.