very short journeys

[Austen]

I am considering an Outlander, I very rarely use motorways with round trips of between 10 and 60 miles on "B" roads annual mileage about 5000.

Please could these 2 points be clarified;

1) some of my trips are up and down hill, I spoke to an owner I met and he said the ICE comes on at the slightest incline, would that be correct?

2) Also in August I hope to acquire a puppy which in due course will get regular trips to the park, a round trip of 3 miles. Conventional petrol cars have notoriously bad mpg for short journeys especially with a cold engine-how would the mpg of the PHEV stand up to that? (there is one steep incline and a shallow one on the way).

I would rather here from people that actually use this car than a sales person !!!


Thanks in advance.

 

[geoffshep69]

I am considering an Outlander, I very rarely use motorways with round trips of between 10 and 60 miles on "B" roads annual mileage about 5000.

Please could these 2 points be clarified;

1) some of my trips are up and down hill, I spoke to an owner I met and he said the ICE comes on at the slightest incline, would that be correct?

2) Also in August I hope to acquire a puppy which in due course will get regular trips to the park, a round trip of 3 miles. Conventional petrol cars have notoriously bad mpg for short journeys especially with a cold engine-how would the mpg of the PHEV stand up to that? (there is one steep incline and a shallow one on the way).

I would rather here from people that actually use this car than a sales person !!!


Thanks in advance.

Point 1 is incorrect. There are numerous threads on here about the behaviour of the ICE and when it does and doesn't fire up, but it's not true to say that it comes on when going up a slight incline.

Plenty of factors to think about, but provided you have sufficient battery charge, it will happily climb hills on pure EV without the ICE firing up. Of course, i depends on how heavy a right foot you have, if you floor it and want to drive aggressively uphill (or anywhere else for that matter) then yes, the ICE starts up to provide more power.

You'll quickly learn to use your right foot in an appropriate manner to stop the ICE starting unnecessarily.

I have a reasonably steep hill near me which I use frequently, and when driving up at the speed limit (30 mph) and with a charged battery, the ICE never starts.

Re point 2, that is precisely where a hybrid EV is perfect for your needs, as you'll do all of that on electric and therefore infinite mpg (albeit you are paying for electricity obviously)

One point to be aware of though is that when you have the interior heating on, and there is more than a 10 degree difference between ambient temperature and your chosen temperature, then the ICE is likely to start up to provide additional heating. This is a source of frustration to many users and has been discussed at length on here, but basically if you want to avoid the ICE firing up for such short journeys, you need to turn the heating off when you last finished using the car.

 

[ChrisMiller]

Living in the Chilterns, I can confirm the PHEV will handle hills (1 in 6 or 15%) perfectly happily as a pure electric. In this mode, there's only 80 bhp available, so a nearly 2-ton car won't 'zip' up the hills - but I don't find a big queue forming behind me, and often catch up slower vehicles that are 'struggling'. A heavy right foot will start the engine (it depends both on how much power you're demanding and also how swiftly you press the 'loud' pedal), but if you're buying new, it should come with an 'electric only' button (of which I'd be quite jealous), which (I believe) won't start the ICE unless you 'kick down'. I don't know if it will also prevent the engine starting for heating purposes, but the likelihood of that can be reduced by using the electric 'pre-heat' system, if you've got one of the higher end models.

After very short journeys, it may not be advisable to recharge the battery, as I understand it isn't beneficial to do so repeatedly when the state of charge is already close to 'full'.

 

[jaapv]

What does happen though, is that one needs a burst of power when negotiating hairpins, so the the ICE has a tendency to come in briefly coming out of the bend.

 

[Austen]

Thank you, I appreciate your replies and it has helped me decide to pursue the idea further.

 

[pedroucos]

Also, if the puppy grows into a large dog it will still fit in the PHEV.

 

[ChrisMiller]

What does happen though, is that one needs a burst of power when negotiating hairpins, so the the ICE has a tendency to come in briefly coming out of the bend.

I agree entirely. Still catches me out, which is annoying.

Having said that, we managed 1,348 miles before our latest visit to the filling station, and then it only took 27.66 litres giving 221 mpg (1.06 l/100km). It did use 347 kWh of electricity, so if I factor that in at 10 kWh = 1 litre (in cost, roughly), that still gives a combined petrol-electric 98 mpg.

 

[anko]

What does happen though, is that one needs a burst of power when negotiating hairpins, so the the ICE has a tendency to come in briefly coming out of the bend.

I agree entirely. Still catches me out, which is annoying.

If it is indeed a matter of catching you out, a PHEV box will solve that. Like it will prevent ICE startups when taking off a bit to enthusiastic from a traffic light. As will a more alert driving style. If it is a matter of not making it around the bend without ICE support then it is of course a different story.

 

[jaapv]

Well, it is not a matter of catching out, more of active driving. Normally one would shift down and take the steep part of the bend under power and accellerate out again. At least, that is the way I was taught to negotiate hairpins. The sound of the PHEV is similar to a conventional car in that case.
The EV box will allow the ICE to come in in such a situation.

 

[Austen]

Also, if the puppy grows into a large dog it will still fit in the PHEV.

It will be a German Shephed so I will be a bit upset if it doesn't grow

 

[Austen]

What does happen though, is that one needs a burst of power when negotiating hairpins, so the the ICE has a tendency to come in briefly coming out of the bend.

I agree entirely. Still catches me out, which is annoying.

Having said that, we managed 1,348 miles before our latest visit to the filling station, and then it only took 27.66 litres giving 221 mpg (1.06 l/100km). It did use 347 kWh of electricity, so if I factor that in at 10 kWh = 1 litre (in cost, roughly), that still gives a combined petrol-electric 98 mpg.

These are verygood figures. At my unit cost of 15.2p I worked out it would have cost me about £42.00 with petrol and electricity ( I think)

I have driven about 1200 miles in the last four months and spent about £130.00 on petrol although still have 1/4 tank left.

 

[ChrisMiller]

At my unit cost of 15.2p.

You need to consider a new electricity supplier, unless you're a relatively light user and are including your service charge in those figures. You shouldn't do that for the purposes of working out the economy of your PHEV, because the standing charges apply no matter how much (or little) electricity you use - the additional cost of charging your EV should be calculated at your marginal rate per kWh (which, for me, is just over 10p - and I don't spend a great deal of time agonising over whether I get the best possible price).

 

[geoffshep69]

At my unit cost of 15.2p.

You need to consider a new electricity supplier, unless you're a relatively light user and are including your service charge in those figures. You shouldn't do that for the purposes of working out the economy of your PHEV, because the standing charges apply no matter how much (or little) electricity you use - the additional cost of charging your EV should be calculated at your marginal rate per kWh (which, for me, is just over 10p - and I don't spend a great deal of time agonising over whether I get the best possible price).

If you are currently paying 10p then you are on a very good deal. I’m in the process of looking to switch, and using the Uswitch service to compare all suppliers I’d say that the best prices currently on offer for electricity are in the 11-12p range per kWh.

I agree though, that 15p per kWh is too much to be paying, and if you are doing a full charge every day that could equate to a £12 per month saving just on the cost of charging the car, never mind any other electricity usage.

 

[ChrisMiller]

I'm on a fixed price contract with Co-op which has a year to run. I agree prices are going up, so I expect I'll have to pay more when it comes time to renew. 11-12p still means a full 10 kWh charge is broadly comparable to the cost of a litre of petrol (and will take you about 3x as far).

 

[SolarBoy]

Install a big solar system ... I run my Outlander, a 1000 litre hot tub, and a large family of 5, and after the feed in tariff payments I've still got a few hundred quid in the bank after paying my electricity AND gas bill :shock:

I never thought it possible.

Getting a big extension so will be chucking on some additional panels to pay for the underfloor heating

 

[geoffshep69]

Install a big solar system ... I run my Outlander, a 1000 litre hot tub, and a large family of 5, and after the feed in tariff payments I've still got a few hundred quid in the bank after paying my electricity AND gas bill :shock:

I never thought it possible.

Getting a big extension so will be chucking on some additional panels to pay for the underfloor heating

Only 2 problems that I can see with that plan…..

1) The initial cost of installing them is monstrous and it takes years and years to recover the cost…..unless you can now get them installed for free

2) I live in Scotland so solar power wouldn’t be my first choice !!

 

[jaapv]

1. many countries subsidize solar
2. solar power does not need bright sun

 

[Austen]

At my unit cost of 15.2p.

You need to consider a new electricity supplier, unless you're a relatively light user and are including your service charge in those figures. You shouldn't do that for the purposes of working out the economy of your PHEV, because the standing charges apply no matter how much (or little) electricity you use - the additional cost of charging your EV should be calculated at your marginal rate per kWh (which, for me, is just over 10p - and I don't spend a great deal of time agonising over whether I get the best possible price).

I am with EDF.

I currently pay 13.89p until September when, looking at their web site the tariff will increase to 15.20p.

This does not include any standing charge which is currently 18.00p per day.

Perhaps I need to review my energy supplier !!

 

[SolarBoy]

Install a big solar system ... I run my Outlander, a 1000 litre hot tub, and a large family of 5, and after the feed in tariff payments I've still got a few hundred quid in the bank after paying my electricity AND gas bill :shock:

I never thought it possible.

Getting a big extension so will be chucking on some additional panels to pay for the underfloor heating

Only 2 problems that I can see with that plan…..

1) The initial cost of installing them is monstrous and it takes years and years to recover the cost…..unless you can now get them installed for free

2) I live in Scotland so solar power wouldn’t be my first choice !!

About 6 to 7 years for me for payback, that's fine as I'm planning on living here till I'm pushing up the daisies

Now if you are in Scotland, you're blessed with plenty of wind ... and agreed Solar isn't the answer for you .

 

[madtam]

I have a 4kw solar system now just over 3 years old and also over half way into payback. I expect to reach payback in under 6 years and then have a system with 14 years of it's 20 year guarantee still to run.
Not in Scotland but West Yorkshire so certainly North of England. I do have a South Westerly aspect and no shading so this helps a lot. Sunshine is not required but brighter conditions are better.
I would not really consider wind as a viable alternative as the efficiencies and economics just don't add up (I work for a compnay that produces wind generators amongst other things).
However, I would seriously consider hydro power if you are looking enough to have a water source.