Upgrade report, OLD vs. NEW Outlander. Differences found.

[westdevon]

No more serious than a bit of turbo lag that can catch you out in the same way.

 

[Fragge]

So what does the phone button do?

Does it just take you to the dial screen? do you then have to press - contacts - mobile phone contacts - find the contact - press on the number in the contact - press dial - still lots and lots of keypresses?

Yup, I usually never use the screen though. I think that the voice commands are good enough.

 

[Fragge]

I did a test once, where I held my foot on the brake, engaged the hand brake on top of that and gave full throttle. In that situation, I extracted measurements for outgoing Torque for both the front and rear motor directly from the E-motor ECUs. Both were at the max values as stated in the official documentation. Without moving an inch.

Assuming the ECUs are not lying (why would they), this would mean the motors (or the software) would somehow have to be modified to produce more than max torque at 0 RPM .... I don't think the documentation was updated to reflect something like that? not that that means a whole lot ...

For this to be relevant you would need to record the torque while pulling away from a standstill and plot it out into a curve. Locking the brakes makes the ECU thing it's stuck and applies more power. The delay in torque delivery might just be a timer that smooths out the power when the accelerator is pressed.

 

[jaapv]

I did a test once, where I held my foot on the brake, engaged the hand brake on top of that and gave full throttle. In that situation, I extracted measurements for outgoing Torque for both the front and rear motor directly from the E-motor ECUs. Both were at the max values as stated in the official documentation. Without moving an inch.

Assuming the ECUs are not lying (why would they), this would mean the motors (or the software) would somehow have to be modified to produce more than max torque at 0 RPM .... I don't think the documentation was updated to reflect something like that? not that that means a whole lot ...

I would like to see a comparison test with both cars accelerating with and without charge engaged. I have a suspicion they managed to tweak the lag of the ICE coming in.

 

[Barnfather]

For what it's worth, when I had the Outlander PHEV on extended demo my biggest complaint was the performance from a standing start. I drive a Lexus hybrid at the moment and one of the benefits of electric cars are the throttle response. If I stick my Lexus in 'sport' mode then it pulls off like a rocket. I was disappointed that the PHEV had the lag which made it very difficult to pull out into fast traffic, at least given that I hadn't had time to adjust to it.

So when the new model was reportedly improved in this area, it was just one of the factors that encouraged me to pull the trigger on an order for one.

 

[jaapv]

Yes - it makes a difference to have the ICE running when accelerating from a standing start. Without it the first couple of seconds are at half-power. Hence my speculation. Exactly the same thing happens when overtaking from EV-only, the car hesitates as the ICE gets started up. (so press Charge when approaching the situation )

 

[anko]

Yes - it makes a difference to have the ICE running when accelerating from a standing start. Without it the first couple of seconds are at half-power. Hence my speculation. Exactly the same thing happens when overtaking from EV-only, the car hesitates as the ICE gets started up. (so press Charge when approaching the situation )

It is not exactly the same. As (in theory) between 0 and 28 km/h both E-motors together cannot handle more than 60 kW anyway, without exceeding max torque. So, until then the battery by itself should be enough. Question is: when will the car decide to start the engine? When the 60kW limit is breached? Or when it expects it will be breached soon.

Hope to have some more input on this later tonight :idea:

 

[jaapv]

OK, I did not know that, thanks. Interesting point. Still, the balance between ICE and EV and the resulting lags could be the cause of the improved figures.

 

[anko]

OK, I did not know that, thanks. Interesting point. Still, the balance between ICE and EV and the resulting lags could be the cause of the improved figures.

Well, lets see. I am about to create a new topic for this in the Technical Discussion session ....

 

[Fragge]

The improved performance has nothing to do with the ICE, it's not even running at takeoff.
I also have a feeling that the ICE dosen't kick in as often in cold weather, but I need do do more testing to confirm that.

 

[user 816]

The improved performance has nothing to do with the ICE, it's not even running at takeoff.
I also have a feeling that the ICE dosen't kick in as often in cold weather, but I need do do more testing to confirm that.

Me neither, unless the car can read your mind and start it before you press the pedal. The improvement is supposed to be in the 0-25 time, your pretty much past that speed before the ICE can realise, wake up and come in with any useful power, its too late to make any difference.

It obvious they are just chucking more watts at the motors for a few seconds, perhaps with a steeper ramp in. Just a pity the software change isn't going to be rolled out to previous models.

 

[anko]

Shall we continue the "off the line performance" discussion here (http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2104) and leave this topic for more obvious differences between MY16 and MY14?

 

[Fragge]

Added the fact that sun visors are now covered in cloth instead of plastic/vinyl to the list.

 

[Fragge]

Added that a-pillars are covered in cloth and that the low beams are now twin projectors in each lamp.

 

[Fragge]

No "burning rubber" smell so far either. As far as i can remember it was quite prominent when the MY14 car was new. Perhaps som improvement has been made, any other MY16 owners who had the smell?

 

[Pancake]

I dit smell something burning when I pressed the charge button during the first drive, but it wasn't too bad. didn't smell it since in the MY2016.

 

[Jaycee]

Hi Fragge

I am contemplating the purchase of an Outlander PHEV vs X-trail vs CX-5 and found your comments very useful to my research. The one thing I haven't been able to find out is how fuel efficient it is (or isn't) on long motorway journeys when electric power isn't really an option. The 2016 facelift supposedly increases MPG from 144 to 156 so do you notice any difference in petrol-only mode? Most of my driving is 30-40 mile round trips on urban and semi-rural routes which is why I'm thinking Outlander PHEV. However, I also visit family about 200 miles away so I don't want to throw away the short-distance gains on totally rubbish MPG on the motorway! What kind of MPG do you get when cruising at motorway speeds?

Many thanks.
Jack

 

[Grigou]

At least 9.0 L/100 km @ 120 kph (GPS) or 125 kph (dashboard).

Of course at constant speed, so it will be less with all the slowdowns : 8.0 to 8.5 generally, if you are cruising at 120 kph in a light traffic.

 

[Fragge]

Well, fuel consumption is a hot topic. I don't have any figures on the new car yet but with the old one I drove 220 km per day. 95% highway at 120 km/h and the rest city driving. I charged the car at night so I only used one charge per day. That gave me a average of 6-6.5 l/100km (true consumption). Never been near 9 l/100km.

If you commute every day a diesel might be a better option but the tax benefits of the PHEV tilted the scales for me. With the new one I don't commute any longer distances so I hardly fill it with petrol at all

 

[zzcoopej]

At least 9.0 L/100 km @ 120 kph (GPS) or 125 kph (dashboard).

That is much higher than I get (we both have the old PHEV), I wonder why it could be? What tyre pressure do you run?
After about 5000+km of long trips in the PHEV I get between 6.7 and 7.3 depending on number of occupants, luggage and use of Aircon .
I just completed a 200km trip on a flat battery, speed 114 set on cruise. The MMCS read 7.2 l/100km at the end of the trip with me and 2 kids, boot full to windows, Aircon on however it wasn't a particularly hot day.