The end for lithium batteries?

[Regulo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

What does the Forum think?

 

[mellobob]

Might be another flying car I'm not an engineer ... but I do know that anything like this will take years (many years) to realize, so don't hold your breath. Did you read this less-sensational article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

 

[elm70]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

What does the Forum think?

Game-changer: the aluminium-air fuel cell stores far more energy than a conventional battery

I would like to believe in it ... but I don't

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

Energy density is 5 times LiIon
But Power density is low .. so maybe it will require super capacitor for provide decent acceleration

These batteries are not rechargeable , again it will require super capacitor for regen .. but it will also have high cost and crazy infrastructure needs for recycle these batteries

This technology exist since many years ... but hard to see any future in the EV field

 

[greendwarf]

Austin Electric Ltd incorporated 21st September 2019 with Corcoran as one of the 2 shareholders. Aims - to make batteries & electric cars.

Two entries for Jackson's "Metalectrique" - one dissolved 2015 and the other 2017.

NB. Corcoran is director of several other companies - mainly involved with prostates. Make of it what you will. :?

 

[elm70]

http://sustainableskies.org/the-17x-aluminum-air-battery/

Professor Cho’s paper (in full) describes the aluminum flow battery he and his team developed. According to the UNIST News Center, “…Compared to the existing lithium-ion batteries (LIBs), the new battery outperforms the others in terms of higher energy density, lower cost, longer cycle life, and higher safety. One drawback – the battery is a primary storage device, meaning it cannot be recharged. It can be readily swapped out of its host vehicle, though.

Even better, it’s more powerful than gasoline – on a pound-for-pound (or kilogram-for-kilogram) basis. Cho explains, “Gasoline has an energy density of 1,700 [Watt-hours per kilogram], while an aluminum-air flow battery exhibits a much higher energy densities of 2,500 Wh/kg with its replaceable electrolyte and aluminum. This means, with 1[kilogram] of aluminum, we can build a battery that enables an electric car to run up to 700 [kilometer] (434 miles).”

:ugeek:

Can we replace only the aluminum and not the entire battery ?

Still .. is missing some maths or there is some wrong maths here

 

[Regulo]

There's a lot more research and testing to be done, for sure. BUT . . . the limitations of Lithium based batteries just doesn't lend itself to the great majority of people's expectations. The larger capacity batteries being installed now take a long time to recharge fully. Until we can get to a point where it's as quick to recharge as fuelling with petrol/diesel/gas, ordinary people won't adopt the EV. The problems arise as to how the next generation of battery/storage system can be made to do that. You may be able to buy a "slot in" battery pack at Tesco (other stores are available!) but at what price? And does Mr Average want to fiddle about with such stuff? Look around you as you go about your daily life, and try to imagine all those vehicles wanting to change out batteries in 5 minutes. I'm not sure the wider world is ready to go EV yet.

 

[ChrisMiller]

Another issue with battery swap, is this. Imagine you've bought a shiny new EV with a battery that delivers close to the manufacturer's claimed range. You run down the charge and then you visit a 'filling station' where it's swapped out for one that has done maybe 100,000+ miles. How happy will that make you?

Maybe we can get round the problem by going back to renting battery packs, so at least you haven't just 'lost' 25% of the value of your vehicle, but it's still the case that your 'new' 300 mile range may just have shrunk to 150 miles.

 

[greendwarf]

Haven't read the scientific papers but if, as above it can't be recharged, then regen goes out the window? Also the price quoted for a new battery is £3k - rather an expensive refill (no figure for trade-in of the old one) and a running cost of 7p per mile - i.e. more than currently for the PHEV. :idea:

 

[elm70]

Haven't read the scientific papers but if, as above it can't be recharged, then regen goes out the window? Also the price quoted for a new battery is £3k - rather an expensive refill (no figure for trade-in of the old one) and a running cost of 7p per mile - i.e. more than currently for the PHEV. :idea:

I did google it a bit more

Yes there are rechargeable variant of this Aluminum Air battery ... but then it does not look any better then LiIon battery

The 1300wh/kg is applicable only for the non rechargeable, that is the model proposed in the article

This portable power pack lasts between 2.6 and 11 times longer than the incumbent lithium primary battery. (Metalectrique)

2.6 more then LiIon is useless
11x sounds optimistic ... above the current state of art for Wikipedia (11x -> 2500wh/kg) , why max per wikipedia is 1300wh/kg

The key is how many kg of battery people need to replace every 200km or 400km ... at 20kwh/100km .. it is needed to replace 40kwh to 80kwh ... even at ideal 2kwh/kg .. it means to replace 20kg every 200km or 40kg every 400km ... nothing to much practical, but possibly feasible ... but in case the technology offer only 3x LiIon energy density, so around 700wh/kg ... it will implies ~60kg of battery replacement every 200km ... which I don't believe it is anymore acceptable.

Anyhow ... for me as now .. this could make a "green" usage as REX for EV ... but they can't replace LiIon technology

Question is "how green" is to recycle these Aluminum battery

 

[KWh]

7p per mile isn't that bad, charging costs are less though.

I would like to know what the environmental impact is of the logistics for the swapping model. Of course there is also (great) environmental impact for manufacturing lithium ion cells. Overall there should be an improvement for this to be worth further development.

For practical use in Europe, I don't really see the advantage compared to a BEV. For 95% of the time a BEV can be charged overnight after which the available range will cover 95% or more of the driving needs. I prefer a daily charge over having to go to a store for a swop as I tend to sleep daily anyway :lol: .

Having said that, history has tought me to not exclude anything in advance. Most people have learned to be critical (I admit, this is often usefull ), side effect is that we're often not able to look past the impossibilities. And then there are some smart guys who have never learned "impossible" is even a word, and they come up with the solutions.