Strange ICE behaviour when heating car

[anko]

Simple. The electric heater will not consume power or provide heat when set to 15 degree Van. Not even when it is -10 deg C outside.

To me that constitutes "off"

Does it actually say "off", mine only says 15 degrees.

You have to be careful making definitive statements Anko, because it bars other posters from entering the frivolous fray.

:lol:

JimB

I did not say mine said it was off, I only said it was off

It has been discussed a zillion times on this forum that setting the heater to 15 degrees effectively turns the electric heater off. Many people have confirmed this. Furthermore, the OBD tools I have developed myself allow me to see the exact power consumption by the a/c unit and also which of the three heating elements is active at any given moment. I even know the temperatures of the 'water' in the system when entering and when exiting the heating elements. Careful enough?

 

[Claymore]

Many people have confirmed this. Furthermore, the OBD tools I have developed myself allow me to see the exact power consumption by the a/c unit and also which of the three heating elements is active at any given moment. I even know the temperatures of the 'water' in the system when entering and when exiting the heating elements. Careful enough?

Anko, I had no doubt that you knew that, and much more.

:lol:

JimB

 

[SolarBoy]

Timed Pre-heating didn't work for me on Monday morning, I had set the temp down to about 15 degrees C, I am now wondering if the two are related.

More information, today the Mrs couldn't trigger the pre-heating via her phone prior to the school pickup.

The message from the app indicated that either the battery was flat, or a door was open.

The doors were closed, actually the car was locked, and the battery was fully charged and plugged into my home car charger.

Opening and closing all of the doors and switching the car on then off, then locking the car again allowed the remote heating request to kick in via the App.

So the 15 degrees C was a red herring ... and there is some kind of intermittent fault.

 

[jaapv]

Many people have confirmed this. Furthermore, the OBD tools I have developed myself allow me to see the exact power consumption by the a/c unit and also which of the three heating elements is active at any given moment. I even know the temperatures of the 'water' in the system when entering and when exiting the heating elements. Careful enough?

Anko, I had no doubt that you knew that, and much more.

:lol:

JimB

Especially as I am convinced that he has to remove his right shoe and sock to test the temperature of the water with his toe :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted:

 

[JKL]

More strange behaviour?:

My car was serviced 3 weeks ago. We have here in Germany now nights were temperatures go below -5. Even pre-heating the car for 15-20 Minutes in my garage at a set temperature of +20 starts the engine as soon as I drive off! I did not observe this behaviour the 2 preceding winters. Even more strange: The display in front of the steering wheel does not show that the engine is running. I only can see it on the EVBATMON tool. I wonder if any software update of the engine has been done and I will ask my dealer in the next days...

 

[SolarBoy]

More strange behaviour?:

My car was serviced 3 weeks ago. We have here in Germany now nights were temperatures go below -5. Even pre-heating the car for 15-20 Minutes in my garage at a set temperature of +20 starts the engine as soon as I drive off! I did not observe this behaviour the 2 preceding winters. Even more strange: The display in front of the steering wheel does not show that the engine is running. I only can see it on the EVBATMON tool. I wonder if any software update of the engine has been done and I will ask my dealer in the next days...

I have noticed the same, engine running but not shown on the dashboard, I thought it was just me having a 'moment'. Outside temp was -3 degrees C.

 

[anko]

More strange behaviour?:

My car was serviced 3 weeks ago. We have here in Germany now nights were temperatures go below -5. Even pre-heating the car for 15-20 Minutes in my garage at a set temperature of +20 starts the engine as soon as I drive off! I did not observe this behaviour the 2 preceding winters. Even more strange: The display in front of the steering wheel does not show that the engine is running. I only can see it on the EVBATMON tool. I wonder if any software update of the engine has been done and I will ask my dealer in the next days...

I have noticed the same, engine running but not shown on the dashboard, I thought it was just me having a 'moment'. Outside temp was -3 degrees C.

The dashboard shows either parallel drive (orange) or power generation (for charging or serial drive). When the engine is started just for heating and you are still parked, it will not show up on the dashboard. Same as you start the engine in maintenance mode (10 seconds press on Charge button).

 

[JKL]

I wrote about the small display in front of the steering wheel which does not show up that the engine is running by displaying an arrow from engine to generator, but may be it is due to the nearly full battery at that moment.

But I have the sensation that heating behaviour of the engine has changed since last service 3 weeks ago. I will continue to observe and speak to my dealer

 

[anko]

I wrote about the small display in front of the steering wheel which does not show up that the engine is running by displaying an arrow from engine to generator, but may be it is due to the nearly full battery at that moment.

But I have the sensation that heating behaviour of the engine has changed since last service 3 weeks ago. I will continue to observe and speak to my dealer

So was I. But when the ICE is started for heating purposes, it will truly idle and NOT charge the battery in the process. Hence no arrow. Unless you press charge and your battery is sufficiently depleted. IMHO, this has always has been the case.

 

[elm70]

So was I. But when the ICE is started for heating purposes, it will truly idle and NOT charge the battery in the process. Hence no arrow. Unless you press charge and your battery is sufficiently depleted. IMHO, this has always has been the case.

Interesting ... I'm quite sure that if the engine start I see it on the little display between speed and power gages

If engine has to start only for heat up the car, even if it is almost in idle (based on the sound), I see it charging the battery

I also notice that It does also rev up a bit when EV power is more then 30kw ...

So, at least on my PHEV when ICE start for warm up the car, it does also support the battery and car motion, even if EV range is more then 10km

PS: My car got service 1m ago , but I bet they did not touch or update the firmware

 

[Steepndeep]

@anko

Not sure I agree. But that depends on what you meen by depleted battery. While experimenting with how the heater works (as you have seen in my other post the ICE has started for heating purposes only with battery being shown to at least 50% charge on dashboard. And that has always been indicated on the dashboard, i.e. ICE starts and a flashing arrow goes to battery. If I then adjust tempsetting down 2 degrees the arrow continues to flash, goes solid for 20 sec and then starts flashing again when the brain has decided that it did not need to start ICE. All this shown on dashboard. Mind you the car has always been moving when the ICE started.

edit: I concur with elm70s observation

 

[anko]

Note that I wrote earlier:

When the engine is started just for heating and you are still parked, it will not show up on the dashboard. Same as you start the engine in maintenance mode (10 seconds press on Charge button).

So, yes. When driving, you will see a blue arrow meaning the generator is providing the power needed for driving. But when still parked? Instantaneous fuel consumption under that condition is also way lower then when you press Charge while parked.

 

[geoffshep69]

I'm pretty sure that if I start the car in cold weather, and the ICE starts up to provide heat, then the blue arrow from engine to battery shows up, even if I am still parked and even if I have full battery capacity.

 

[elm70]

Note that I wrote earlier:

When the engine is started just for heating and you are still parked, it will not show up on the dashboard. Same as you start the engine in maintenance mode (10 seconds press on Charge button).

So, yes. When driving, you will see a blue arrow meaning the generator is providing the power needed for driving. But when still parked? Instantaneous fuel consumption under that condition is also way lower then when you press Charge while parked.

I know .. it is almost impossible that you can be wrong about our PHEV

Yes, if the car is not moving .. maybe nothing is shown on the little LCD ... I know that sometime I was thinking the ICE may have stop since cabin temperature was already high enough for keep warming with electric heater only .. for then discover that ICE did kick in again ... but possibly ICE was never stopping ... just me not hearing it at the traffic light with car radio on.

But as soon car is moving .. arrows from ICE are shown on the little display (can't recall now if ICE is shown also from standing still .. I guess I see it charging battery also from standing at the car start up in the cold )

 

[Steepndeep]

Yes I missed some word in your sentence anko, sorry;-)

Continuing playing with heating the car without ICE start I think now there is some small fan setting dependency on the duration of electrical heater being used. Again just observing during driving. However the dependency is very small.

As we do not have an EV-only button wouldn't it be nice to disable the internal heat sensor and have a manual direct control of the electrical heater. You leave tempsetting at 15 C and just adjust the heater like in the old days. Or is this what Vtech box does?

 

[anko]

There is a lot of stuff going on that does not show up on the display. For example, when coasting at 100 km/h in B0, all arrows on the dash will off (assuming you are not in charge mode). Yet, about 4 kW is being drained from the battery constantly. This power is used to eliminate E-drag in both E-motors.

I am pretty sure, when coasting in parallel mode in B0, it gets even worse: Even though the engine is idling, the battery is providing power to eliminate E-drag in the generator!