Space Saver Options

[Vijay]

Hi,

Newbie here driving a '14 plate G4 for about a year.

This afternoon, we had just set off on a long run when we had the dreaded 'Click, Click, Click ... Bang' followed by the Tyre Pressure light.

Managed to pull over safely and identified a flat tyre with a rather large hole in the middle of the tread. There was no way the gunk was going to fix that so opted for RAC call out (fantastic service!) and local puncture repair. Two hours later, travel plans cancelled and back home.

Which brings me to the question of Space Saver wheels. I noticed a lot of old threads here about picking up smaller rims with larger tyres with associated impacts on boot space. However, I came across these guys and was wondering if anyone has used them before and if the product is worth the £170 spend...?

https://www.thewheelshop.co.uk/space-saver-wheels/mitshubishi/mitshubishi-outlander

Alternate options/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thxs

 

[Regulo]

Welcome, Vijay. Those would do the trick, but they do take up a fair bit of boot space. I've got one, and even though they're space-savers, they're still quite large when they're in the back!

 

[NightPHEVer]

When I go on long journeys I actually take a spare 225/55R18 Toyo R37 tyre with me. Just the tyre, not on a wheel. Not especially helpful in the short term perhaps but by my estimation it's usually possible to get a tyre changed - presumably even by the roadside with a breakdown recovery service. R37s are very hard to get hold of at short notice. You can store quite a bit of stuff inside it to. I cleaned my part worn tyre thoroughly and wrapped it in clingfilm. I secure it using ratchet tiedowns via the four 'hooks' provided in the boot area, as I do any heavy luggage too.

I believe it's very important to secure a spare tyre and/or wheel in the boot though, as you most certainly wouldn't want it to continue its momentum forwards if you had to stop very quickly. Even a space saver wheel and tyre would be plently heavy enough to discombobulate the passengers in the vehicle. One of my mother's friends was actually killed by the impact of her unsecured dog in the back of her car by this method (car stopped very suddenly - dog didn't - dog died too).

 

[Daff]

No spare was really my main misgiving about buying this car. Never had a car without a spare, and never thought I would.

I would be VERY unwilling to put a space saver wheel onto a 4wd vehicle that was not specifically allowed to use one.

I quite like the idea of carrying a full size tyre sans rim and calling out a mobile tyre fitter. Might get one to put in the trailer when we go on big camping trips. Being recovered with a trailer must be even more hassle than normal.

Steve

 

[NightPHEVer]

Well obviously the carrying of a tyre alone doesn't entirely equal the convenience of the age old concept of a spare wheel and tyre (I remember the days!) but knowing the difficulty in obtaining an R37 at short notice (even Mitsubishi main dealers can't get them quickly) it's better than nothing. There have been occasions when PHEV owner's have had to replace two tyres to solve the problem of one knackered tyre (in order to end up with two matching tyres on axle - with some lease cars this might mean changing all four tyres to satisfy the lease agreement!), and then chances are you'll have different brands front and back.

As far as space saver's go if, for instance, you were about to embark on a holiday a space saver would have its limitations if needed, as (for peace of mind if nothing else) you're limited to a top speed of around 50mph. I've just driven to Scotland and back and wouldn't want to try that at 50mph. And ultimately you're still going to need a new tyre. I'm not sure what the implications of using a space saver on a PHEV actually are though. Assuming that there are any implications.

I always carry a telescopic wheelbrace too, in its 'open' position you can easily undo the nuts and in its 'closed' position tightening them up again is about the right torque needed until you can confirm this with a torque wrench (handbook says 88-108Nm) as removing nuts while the car may only be supported on a slightly wobbly scissor jack isn't much fun. A PHEV is very heavy and should only be jacked on a dead level surface.

It's also worth taking the wheels off before you actually might need to. When I first took the wheels off my PHEV the nuts were beginning to corrode inside and stick a bit too well to the studs. I've smeared a small amount of copperslip grease onto the threads to stop this - although the handbook says not to do this (well, it says oil) as it will render the torque setting inaccurate. So I might clean it off again and just plump for undoing and re-torquing the nuts occasionally. Hmm, this is a controversial subject - I'd have thought it was ok if the torque setting is only 88Nm. I don't know how much of a difference copperslip would make to a torque setting of 88Nm. People do have a habit of horribly overtightening wheelnuts though. I've always put copperslip grease on wheel studs otherwise they get stuck, but then I always use a torque wrench too.

Smearing a very small amount of copperslip grease between the alloy wheel and the hub (the mating surface) just to make sure you can actually get the wheel off when you need to is also an idea, although this too is a subject of dispute as the mating surface transmits torque from the axle to the wheels. But over time the alloy of the wheel and the steel of the hub create a corrosive electrolytic reaction where they contact and can stick very firmly together. This recently happened to my brother-in-law with an 18month old Seat. Seems that despite main dealer servicing the wheels had never been taken off. Who'd have thought there was so much to know about taking a wheel off! Well, a lot of people find out there is when they try to get one off. Now where's my locking wheelnut key...

 

[user 816]

Its not that your not allowed to use a spacesaver, there just isn't room to carry one

(actually if you lie down and look at the wasted space behind the rear bumper, with a bit of planning there could have been one accommodated)

We had a previous model Outlander which even with 2 extra seats still had a bigger boot, split tailgate and still had a spacesaver factory fitted in a carrier below the rear.

The only good news is the Toyo's seem pretty tough, no punctures in 75K miles.

 

[greendwarf]

There have been occasions when PHEV owner's have had to replace two tyres to solve the problem of one knackered tyre (in order to end up with two matching tyres on axle - with some lease cars this might mean changing all four tyres to satisfy the lease agreement!), and then chances are you'll have different brands front and back.

...

Recommendation for 4WD cars is that tyres should ALWAYS be replaced in pairs - to match tread wear/grip - irrespective of the brand/type. In addition, the new tyres should be put on the rear for extra anti-skid grip. Different brands/types back and front should not be a problem. AFAIK :?:

 

[greendwarf]

The only good news is the Toyo's seem pretty tough, no punctures in 75K miles.

I've just collected my 6th (at least) in less than 20k miles - all nails/screws/bolts resulting in slow punctures except when I hit a concrete bollard at 20mph and tore the side wall. :evil: It was lying broken off in the gutter in the dark. :twisted:

 

[jaapv]

I think a solution like this would be more effective:

http://www.tauro.co.za/project/dual-spare-wheel-carrierjerry-can-tow-bar-swing-arm/

 

[Daff]

We had a previous model Outlander which even with 2 extra seats still had a bigger boot, split tailgate and still had a spacesaver factory fitted in a carrier below the rear.

That previous model didn't have to make room to accommodate an enormous battery pack. Anyway whether or not it can be physically fitted in, a space saver is not a great idea on a 4wd transmission. I appreciate the PHEV transmission is very unusual, as there is no mechanical coupling between the front and rear axles at all. But I would still refuse to fit a donut spare unless the manual specifically said it was OK.

Steve

 

[Daff]

chances are you'll have different brands front and back.

I never run non-identical tyres even on a 2wd car. The idea of having different tread on different corners just seems wrong, to me.

as removing nuts while the car may only be supported on a slightly wobbly scissor jack isn't much fun.

You are supposed to do the initial loosening before jacking, and the final tightening after lowering. It's interesting that the PHEV is supplied with a jack and wheel brace despite being incapable of stowing a spare wheel.

Thanks for the tip re seizing wheels. That should not happen IMO. In the past, on other cars, I have put a tiny tiny smear of oil on the threads only, and never had a problem removing wheels, nor with plastic stretching of the studs. I didn't use much though, and not on the mating surface.

Steve

 

[Vijay]

I think a solution like this would be more effective:

http://www.tauro.co.za/project/dual-spare-wheel-carrierjerry-can-tow-bar-swing-arm/

Thanks,

This looks like a fantastic piece of kit, however, I think the wife would object to the fuss of unloading and reloading when out shopping!

 

[Vijay]

We had a previous model Outlander which even with 2 extra seats still had a bigger boot, split tailgate and still had a spacesaver factory fitted in a carrier below the rear.

That previous model didn't have to make room to accommodate an enormous battery pack. Anyway whether or not it can be physically fitted in, a space saver is not a great idea on a 4wd transmission. I appreciate the PHEV transmission is very unusual, as there is no mechanical coupling between the front and rear axles at all. But I would still refuse to fit a donut spare unless the manual specifically said it was OK.

Steve

Makes sense not to go against the manufactures spec. but as a 'get out of jail' solution where you could be mobile again within 30mins. of the puncture seems more appealing then having to wait by the road side to be recovered.

Thxs for all the responses and ideas. I'll investigate further options and report back on the way forward.

 

[jaapv]

I think a solution like this would be more effective:

http://www.tauro.co.za/project/dual-spare-wheel-carrierjerry-can-tow-bar-swing-arm/

Thanks,

This looks like a fantastic piece of kit, however, I think the wife would object to the fuss of unloading and reloading when out shopping!

I don't think so, as it is swing-out.

 

[user 816]

We had a previous model Outlander which even with 2 extra seats still had a bigger boot, split tailgate and still had a spacesaver factory fitted in a carrier below the rear.

That previous model didn't have to make room to accommodate an enormous battery pack. Anyway whether or not it can be physically fitted in, a space saver is not a great idea on a 4wd transmission. I appreciate the PHEV transmission is very unusual, as there is no mechanical coupling between the front and rear axles at all. But I would still refuse to fit a donut spare unless the manual specifically said it was OK.

Steve

Battery makes no difference, its is under the floor well forward, there is the aux battery and some electronics under there which causes the loss of boot compared to the non PHEV version, but that is only because they didn't want to modify the chassis to use the space better, too costly. Seriously get a blanket on the floor lie down and have a look under the car boot, you could smuggle a couple of migrants in the wasted space.

I would have no problems using a spacesaver for a moderate distance at a careful pace, the PHEV is no different to any other car in this respect, spacesavers are a bit more rigid and have softer tread for more grip to make up for the thinner wheel, still horrible to drive on but does the job.

 

[MrPastry]

As BobEngineer says, there's some wasted space under the rear cover next to the battery............... :shock:
The area just behind the rear seats houses the charger.

I just sit the spare in the boot & strap it down.

 

[Daff]

Battery makes no difference, its is under the floor well forward, there is the aux battery and some electronics under there

Ah, I had been under the mistaken impression that the fuel tank was behind the rear "axle" (motor), to make more room for the drive battery. But I see from that diagram it's in between battery and motor.

I would have no problems using a spacesaver for a moderate distance at a careful pace, the PHEV is no different to any other car in this respect, spacesavers are a bit more rigid and have softer tread for more grip to make up for the thinner wheel, still horrible to drive on but does the job.

As long as the diameter is the same, I might. If it's a smaller diameter I would not risk it. For the two motors would surely be turning at different speeds, and I don't know how well the PHEV system would like that.

Steve

 

[MrPastry]

I have been looking at wheels and the Outlander Phev wheel is the same/similar fit as many other cars.
I'm considering getting a full set of steel rims for winter tyres.

I'm quite sure these are the correct sizes below.

The standard 2015 alloy wheel/tyre combination is 225/55R18 98H (18X 7J)
The standard steel wheel/tyre combination is 215/70R16 100H (16 X 16.5J) Should be about the same circumference as the above.

PCD = 5 x 114.3mm
Offset (ET) = 38mm
Centre bore = 67.1mm
Thread = M12 X 1.5

The only other detail that I have not compared is the wheel load rating.

 

[user 816]

As BobEngineer says, there's some wasted space under the rear cover next to the battery............... :shock:
The area just behind the rear seats houses the charger.

I just sit the spare in the boot & strap it down.

yup but have a look underneath the car there, lot more wasted space! (that chassis boot floor could have been so much lower still)

The electric motors will turn at different relative speeds all the time to some degree, its wheel speed that matters, the motors drive each axle through differentials that will compensate difference in sizes as they do normally - no tyre will ever be exactly the same size so will turn at a slight different speed. The difference in speed across the axle is quite a bit when going around a corner where the outside wheel has to rotate quite a bit faster than the inside wheel, the diff takes care of it.

 

[Daff]

The diffs compensate for different wheel speeds from left to right, but when they do the input to the diff must also turn at a different speed. This expected when cornering, but that
is a temporary situation. The question I am not sure about: is the diff happy with a long term wheel speed difference across the diff, say due to driving 50 miles with one wheel two or three inches smaller? I guess so, as they are as far as I know just open diffs. But is the EV system happy to have the two motors turning at rather different speeds for an extended period? It might even detect it as an error condition and show a warning. I don't think we'll know until someone tries. The manual only contains the generic warning about not mixing tyre sizes.

Steve