Smell of burning

[ian4x4]

To me it looks as if the most important use of the 'torque limiter' clutch is to protect the starter/generator during the ICE start-up phase.
Once the engine is running I am sure the electronics will keep everything in control.
I could not find any additional info anywhere on the internet.

PS there is no mechanical CVT.

 

[Carnut]

Oh well I'm not prepared to start this stupid argument all over again.

I hope you understand IT WAS YOU who kicked of the discussion this time. HHL and myself where talking about whether or not there is a torque limiter in the drive line. Nothing to do with CSV or no CSV. If you do not understand the difference, then maybe you should not interfere. Last time you backed out of the discussion when it became to complicated for you. This time you restart the discussion and try to back out immediately. Rather annoying. Almost makes me wonder if you are not just trolling.

EXCUSE ME!


It was HHL that re-started it.


- There is a permanent fixed gear ratio connection between engine and generator.
- There is a permanent fixed gear ratio connection between front E-motor and front axle.
- There is a clutch between engine/generator side of the drivetrain and e-motor/axle side of the drivetrain, which is closed in parallel mode and opened in series mode.

I am certainly NOT 'trolling'.
Argumentum ad hominem,
I take offence at that. I only ducked out because it is boring. I thought we had thrashed it to death & I really can't be bothered arguing with people that think they know better than the manufacturers importer and the Dealers service managers that's all. END OF!

 

[anko]

Oh well I'm not prepared to start this stupid argument all over again.

I hope you understand IT WAS YOU who kicked of the discussion this time. HHL and myself where talking about whether or not there is a torque limiter in the drive line. Nothing to do with CSV or no CSV. If you do not understand the difference, then maybe you should not interfere. Last time you backed out of the discussion when it became to complicated for you. This time you restart the discussion and try to back out immediately. Rather annoying. Almost makes me wonder if you are not just trolling.

EXCUSE ME!
It was HHL that re-started it.


- There is a permanent fixed gear ratio connection between engine and generator.
- There is a permanent fixed gear ratio connection between front E-motor and front axle.
- There is a clutch between engine/generator side of the drivetrain and e-motor/axle side of the drivetrain, which is closed in parallel mode and opened in series mode.

I am certainly NOT 'trolling'.
I take offence at that. I only ducked out because it is boring. I thought we had thrashed it to death & I really can't be bothered arguing with people that think they know better than the manufacturers importer and the Dealers service managers that's all. END OF!

You are confused. It was me who said that, not HHL. These facts are undisputed (not even by Maby) and independent of the whole CSV or no CSV discussion.

 

[jaapv]

Well, all these parts have nothing to do with a mechanical CVT. Do you even know what a CVT is? I just got off the phone with the technical department of Mitsubishi Europe (not the telephone receptionist) and they called the idea of a mechanical CVT blatant nonsense.
As for the rev. variation you can hear, that is the series hybrid system, when there is no mechanical connection between engine and wheels, enabling it to choose its revs according to electrical demand.
So indeed endof.

 

[Carnut]

Apologies to ANKO. For mistakenly accrediting HHL with ANKO's post.
In reply to JAAPV.
GOOD! I accept their comment and admit I have been misinformed. Thanks Jaapv for clearing it up once and for all. I shall creep back into my cave (As Anko thinks I am a Troll :lol: :lol
Perhaps somebody had better tell COLT CARS they don't know what they are talking about and nor does my dealer. I am NOT being sarcastic by the way. They need to be told. So I have told them!
I said..........
There has been a discussion on the PHEV forum as to whether the PHEV has a CVT gear box included in the drive train.
Moderator of the Forum has commented thus:
Quote:-
' To clear up the matter once and for all I telephoned your Customer Services and was informed that there WAS indeed such a thing. However a Moderator on the Forum has spoken with Mitsubishi Europe..Quote. "I just got off the phone with the technical department of Mitsubishi Europe (not the telephone receptionist) and they called the idea of a mechanical CVT blatant nonsense'


BTW YES I do know what a REAL CVT as in Honda etc is.

 

[Claymore]

.........I just got off the phone with the technical department of Mitsubishi Europe (not the telephone receptionist).......

I don't suppose you asked them what was causing the smell of burning?

I know it's a dangerous thing, but I've been thinking.....having looked at all of the posts on this subject I can't see any who are obvious users of the MY2016 model reporting this issue (maybe some are but don't identify that one way or another).

I haven't done that many miles in mine yet and certainly no sustained high speed runs but my MY2016 has so far not exhibited any whiff of this whatsoever and I wondered whether whatever causes / caused it has been rectified in among the many minor changes incorporated into the MY16.

:?:

JimB

 

[jaapv]

No I didn't, but I do know the official position on this issue : "Dirt burning off the exhaust"
I think it does not match the smell, but as I said before, no cars have gone up in flames yet, despit this being a universal complaint with tens of thousands on the road from 2013 onwards, so I am not unduly worried.

 

[Icerunner]

55k on mine - and still every now and then the burned rubber smell, always after using charge for a while (or after high demands on the engine - for example climbing long hills). What amazes me the most is how on earth MMC could create something that can burn for so long without causing any malfunctioning... It's like they found the solution to Eternal Magic Smoke

 

[HHL]

55k on mine - and still every now and then the burned rubber smell, always after using charge for a while (or after high demands on the engine - for example climbing long hills). What amazes me the most is how on earth MMC could create something that can burn for so long without causing any malfunctioning... It's like they found the solution to Eternal Magic Smoke

Well, it is the only link between the engine and all the rest. It obviously can't be designed to slip at a higher torque than the engine can manage at any time, so it must be starting to slip somewhere below the maximum under certain conditions. That would most likely be in charge mode and high power demand for driving. It certainly smells like hot friction material when it happens.

 

[maby]

55k on mine - and still every now and then the burned rubber smell, always after using charge for a while (or after high demands on the engine - for example climbing long hills). What amazes me the most is how on earth MMC could create something that can burn for so long without causing any malfunctioning... It's like they found the solution to Eternal Magic Smoke

I don't think it's anything burning in any strict sense of the word, and I don't think it's anything mechanical like a clutch. The smell is suggestive of hot electrical equipment and not hot enough to actually burn, just hot enough to drive off some of the aromatic compounds from the insulation.

I seldom notice it, but my PHEV does run as a predominantly petrol car. The few times that I have noticed it do seem to correspond with occasions when I have put significant demands on the electrical systems - hard acceleration at low speeds or climbing steep hills on a flat battery. Others seem to think it is triggered by long periods of towing.

 

[jaapv]

Yes, it does smell more like a power amplifier that has been run long and hard. It might be that the whole 300V system heats up.

 

[ClasseClas]

I think it smells like rust protection mistakenly applied to the catalytic converter which then burns off with a characteristic smell.

 

[ian4x4]

jaapv seems to have the most likely answer.
There is an awful lot of power being changed ac to dc and back again, and being controlled by what is essentially a large power amp.
The losses (of up to 10kw?) end up as heat, don't they?

 

[maby]

jaapv seems to have the most likely answer.
There is an awful lot of power being changed ac to dc and back again, and being controlled by what is essentially a large power amp.
The losses (of up to 10kw?) end up as heat, don't they?

I would hope that the losses are a lot less than 10kW!

 

[HHL]

jaapv seems to have the most likely answer.
There is an awful lot of power being changed ac to dc and back again, and being controlled by what is essentially a large power amp.
The losses (of up to 10kw?) end up as heat, don't they?

I would hope that the losses are a lot less than 10kW!

page 55 of the technical manual:
The generator output of up to 70kw will feed directly to the front motor which will create approximately 60kw output (after loss).
There is your 10kw.......
However, since the generator is cooled by oil and pretty well sealed, I doubt the smell comes from there.

 

[ian4x4]

If you look at the Technical Highlights Manual, page 17, you will see that both front and rear ends loose 10kw =20 total at full stretch.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106981165/PHEV/PHEV%20Outlander%20Technical%20Highlights%20for%20MMAL.pdf

Are there fans still running at standstill to cool this ( and spread the smell )?

I believe the battery pack also has its own independent blower for when it gets hot, does this carry on running at standstill?

 

[Dorza]

Hi all new to the forum and also a mechanic and regarularly get the smell of burning. Both myself and my wife run a PHEV, both 2014 and on 50,000 Miles plus. It seems to occur when the Charge mode is selected when driving, I can’t see it being an Exhaust smell as it would happen when you use the heater control for warm air which kicks the engine in and runs it until it is up to temperature. To me it is definitely an electrical burn smell, battery pack maybe but I also have the home charge master system and NO smell occurs when this is in operation. Is it down to overheating? The batteries are tightly compacted and when charge mode is selected it does put more current in than the home charge, a bit like a battery charger using boost mode instead of a trickle charge. Just a thought everyone but it is annoying on times.

 

[jaapv]

If it were an electrical burn smell one would expect something to have burnt to a cinder and caused a breakdown by this mileage. Which has not happened to any car.
The most common explanation given is hot exhaust smell. If the ICE runs for heating it does not do so at high power. Running at charge is at high power for a longer period, heating the exhaust and other engine parts up far more.
My 2013 car has run for nearly 100.000 km. In the beginning, I got this smell when coming from the motorway, from 15.000 km onwards it only occurred occasionally and after a long, fast run, diminishing up to about 50.000 km and I never get it nowadays.

 

[NightPHEVer]

I got quite a strong burning rubber smell from mine the other day, after a brisk run on the M40 at around +11oC outside temp. with new winter tyres fitted. I guessed it was rubber from the tyres spattering onto the exhaust silencer (a bit warm for winter tyres). I've never smelt it before though. Obviously rubber does slowly come off the tyres otherwise they wouldn't wear out. Perhaps a bit quicker than you'd like with soft compound winter tyres at +11oC. My Smart fortwo (petrol powered) has always had this smell too, Smart aficinados have always assumed it to be tyre rubber on the hot exhaust silencer.

The PHEV smell was definitely rubbery not electrical.

 

[therealrunestone]

Interesting thread!
I drive a MY18 PHEV that definitely has that (IMHO) "burnt clutch" smell when using the Charge-mode. I thought there was some unadjusted clutch-pressure that made the error.