Serious competition?

[rgilyead]

Could this be the first serious competition for the PHEV with similar capabilities at a similar price? https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/vauxhall/new-vauxhall-grandland-x-pictures-and-details/

 

[greendwarf]

Surprisingly, although the PHEV is 10 inches longer load capacity is 50 litres less than the Grandland but ours looks "squarer" so probably more useful. The article doesn't give kerb weight but as the range/battery is similar (ignoring the optimistic 10% extra due to regen claim) I would have thought at 1.6 it is likely to be underpowered compared to the Mitsu - but, of course it gives it lower emissions.

What does seem highly unlikely is the claim to be able to recharge in under 2 hours.

 

[ChrisMiller]

What does seem highly unlikely is the claim to be able to recharge in under 2 hours.

Presumably, that's just saying that it can utilise a 32A (8kW) power source, where available.

 

[richr]

I would have thought at 1.6 it is likely to be underpowered compared to the Mitsu - but, of course it gives it lower emissions.

What does seem highly unlikely is the claim to be able to recharge in under 2 hours.

It's a 1.6 turbo - around 200bhp, so significantly more powerful than the Outlander's non-turbo engines.
That 2 hour charge figure is with the optional 7kW charger upgrade, which would seem about right for charging that size battery - given we can charge our slightly smaller battery in 3 hours at 3.6kW.

I think it's quite good that there's now some competition, Mitsubishi have had it easy for that last 5 years by cornering a market section that nobody else was catering for. Audi and BMW are likely to have direct competitors soon too, as they expand their PHEV model range.

 

[elm70]

Not bad at all this Opel

The midsize SUV combines a turbocharged four-cylinder 1.6-liter gasoline engine delivering 200 horsepower (147 kilowatts) with two electric motors – each developing 109 hp (80 kW). The front-mounted electric motor is coupled to the eight-speed automatic transmission whereas the rear one is built into the rear axle to enable an AWD layout on demand.

When it’s used as a hybrid, the range-topping version of the Grandland X emits only 49 g/km CO2 and needs only 2.2 liters / 100 km based on WLTP, which roughly works out to an impressive 107 miles per gallon. If you care more about performance, the sprint to 62 mph (100 kph) from a standstill takes six and a half seconds en route to a top speed of 136 mph (219 kph) or 83 mph (134 kph) when it runs solely on electric power.

So ... it is looking a FWD which eMotor on RWD on demand (which is quite a odd design)

It has 8 gears .. so a more complex design compared to our Outlander .. but this might give better fuel economy .. and it has visible much better performance.

It does AWD in eMode ... so it is looking a good option for me once I will retire the mitsubishi (in ~3 years time , assuming my PHEV will survive so long)

This Outlander is my first and possible last car from Japan ... the japanese philosophy on cars is not for me ... I trust more german cars

EDIT:

It has apparently 2 eMotor 80kw each ... but total max power is 300HP .. so only 100HP can be used from the two eMotor .. so a battery limitation like on the Outlander ... so in eMode only there is only 100HP power (134kmh max speed, so a bit more then on Outlander) .. so around 80/75kw ... not much more then on the Outlander ...mainly when the turbo engine kick in, with the 8 speed transmission, the Opel will fly .. as well, there is not the terrible speed limit of only 170kmh ... the opel at almost 220kmh top speed is a decent car to be driven on the german motorway

PS: Definitely a much better PHEV SUV AWD compared to the Outlander ... possibly it will be priced similar to the Outlander .. or who knows .. maybe it can be even cheaper, since Opel is not really a premium brand like BMW or Audi or Mercedess

 

[jaapv]

The use of a Turbo engine is interesting - Turbos tend to be a bit sensitive to start-shutdown cycles, especially when spinning up from cold. The provision of a precise EV max speed implies that there is a "hard" EV mode.

 

[nickmc]

Having been a previous Vauxhall driver, I wouldn't buy one in the future (however, I suppose, never say never!!!)

I had a Vauxhall Vectra (now Insignia) a few years ago. Brand new. Lovely to drive at start. However the degradation of drive quality after 20,000 miles was significant and it felt like an old car. Every 10-20k miles something significant failed, including ERV, entire aircon system, entire rear brake system to name but a few.

Vauxhalls are cheap cars that you will fix often, compare to German brands that are more expensive but you repair less. I'm just returning a 4 year old Passat and the most that has been discovered during a service was a missing screw..........

My judgement of the outlander is that it sits somewhere between, closer to VW on the reliability scale but closer to Vauxhall on the refinement scale. But, for similar money you're better off with an outlander IMO.

 

[michael8554]

I get the impression that it's more speed oriented than the Outlander, fine for the Autobahn, not so much for the M25.

The trend is towards small turbo engines for good economy, but I'm not sure if that's the right match for a PHEV.

Petrol engines are most economical at one fixed speed, hence the 8speed auto gearbox, which is no better or worse than the Outlander's continuously variable gearbox.

Many so-called 4WD cars are mostly FWD, with 4WD only engaged when the car computer senses the need - like the Outlander does.
But I guess you can select permanent 4WD - like the Outlander.

Nobody who owns a hybrid would turn down a bigger battery and more EV range, and this Vauxhall delivers that at an attractive price.

Michael

 

[Craigy]

I’ve driven a grandland, just a normal petrol one, it was ok but felt very small. Also I struggled to get much in the boot, so while on paper it looks comparable I don’t think it is. While the boot on the outlander isn’t huge I often think it’s bigger than the specs suggest.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Vauxhalls are cheap cars that you will fix often, compare to German brands that are more expensive but you repair less.

Opel (aka Vauxhall) is a German brand!

This is a common myth, which the German brands like to keep alive. Look at the actual reliability of the various brands and you'll see that they're no better than most other mainstream brands

 

[MikkB]

Vauxhalls are cheap cars that you will fix often, compare to German brands that are more expensive but you repair less.

Opel (aka Vauxhall) is a German brand!

This is a common myth, which the German brands like to keep alive. Look at the actual reliability of the various brands and you'll see that they're no better than most other mainstream brands

I had a couple of Astra SRIs over the 10 years before I went PHEV. I found them to be practical, nice to drive, economical and largely trouble free. I would happily consider a Vauxhall/Opel in the future.

 

[TweeNeuzen]

Petrol engines are most economical at one fixed speed, hence the 8speed auto gearbox, which is no better or worse than the Outlander's continuously variable gearbox.

Many so-called 4WD cars are mostly FWD, with 4WD only engaged when the car computer senses the need - like the Outlander does.
But I guess you can select permanent 4WD - like the Outlander

Michael

To my understanding the PHEV just prefers to drive electric as much as possible. (It’s an EV which sometimes just needs some extra electrons by means of the ICE)
All drive to the wheels is electrical, thus no need for CVT. And this is a constant 4 wheel situation.
The parallel drive mode (above 70 km with low battery) means that the ICE is directly coupled to the front axle in a 1 to 1 situation and generating electricity to feed into the battery. Once enough for approximately 2 km the PHEV will switch to EV.

The 4WD button just disperses the energy equally (electric) between front and rear. Just like my old Landrover’s centre diff lock

I hope to have set some things right about this PHEV’s unique drivetrain.

 

[jaapv]

Basically correct, but the car will divert power mostly to the front wheels when circumstances permit, except when the 4WD-lock button is activated.
You are perfectly correct to emphasize that the Outlander has no CVT, nor any type of variable gear box. This misconception appears to be a common Internet myth.

 

[michael8554]

Apologies on the variable drive description, only got the car recently and had heard the ICE revs changing at constant road speed.

 

[AndyInOz]

Don't worry about it.

There was a fairly spectacular stoush on here about it a while ago.

 

[KWh]

Basically correct, but the car will divert power mostly to the front wheels when circumstances permit, except when the 4WD-lock button is activated

According to my Outlander itself, all four wheels are driven most of the time. Exceptions are
- At full electric and very limited power demand only the rear wheels are driven
- In parallel hybrid mode with limited power demand only the front wheels are driven