Pre-heating, connected to charger all night or not?

[anko]

The reason it takes a while is the electric heater warms up the engine cooling system and the heat to the cabin is indirectly provided from that.

Being pedantic: The heater does NOT warm up the engine cooling system. There are two separate circuits, one for the heater and one for the engine. Only when the fluid in the engine circuit reaches 70 deg C, the circuits are linked together.

 

[Daff]

That's not pedantic, that's useful extra info which I hadn't heard before Thanks, and it makes sense, otherwise the cabin pre-heat would take forever, I guess. But the general idea is still that the electric heater heats up liquid, and heats the air indirectly, so it's not as fast or efficient as cars that have a heat pump. On the other hand, it probably helps heat retention when your passengers spend 5 or 10 minutes getting on board, opening and closing the doors/boot numerous times, etc You might lose the warm cabin air but at least the blower is still blowing warm.

-- Steve

 

[anko]

That's not pedantic, that's useful extra info which I hadn't heard before

Glad you see it that way

On the other hand, it probably helps heat retention when your passengers spend 5 or 10 minutes getting on board, opening and closing the doors/boot numerous times, etc You might lose the warm cabin air but at least the blower is still blowing warm.

True. On my self created dashboard I can see coolant temperature, as well as heater inlet and heater outlet temperature. And heater power consumption. And a lot more. Sometimes I wish I couldn't, because t can be rather frustrating to see what is going on. Especially when the coolant is still at > 80 deg C and the electric heater is used to heat up the heater fluid, because (apparently) the valve between the two circuits will not be opened when the ICE is not running.

 

[ps44]

Going back to the (Friday morning) question. As another Midlands UK resident I would say that 10 minutes was probably not quite enough in this weather, but does depend on what you call warm. I'm generally happy in a car in a tshirt at about 18C so may not be the best guide

 

[vlado61]

Thanks for the comments,guys. I was most probably wrong to expect the Outlander to heat up the cabin like my previous diesel car. For 10 min, blowing on full power from cold, it would make the the cabin like a turkish bath.

 

[Claymore]

I had mine set for 30 minutes last year and it was always nice and 'toasty' and defrosted when we got in.

This year I thought I'd try 20 minutes to minimise range drain.

It's back to 30 minutes now. I prefer 'toasty'!

Mine is on charge timer every night from midnight to 0700 to use off peak power. When I get up I use the phone app to disable the charge timer, hear the clunk from downstairs to confirm connection then start the preheat.

JimB

 

[anko]

Mine is on charge timer every night from midnight to 0700 to use off peak power. When I get up I use the phone app to disable the charge timer, hear the clunk from downstairs to confirm connection then start the preheat.

Why have the timer end at 0700? Why not make it end at 1000? Full is full.

 

[maby]

Mine is on charge timer every night from midnight to 0700 to use off peak power. When I get up I use the phone app to disable the charge timer, hear the clunk from downstairs to confirm connection then start the preheat.

Why have the timer end at 0700? Why not make it end at 1000? Full is full.

Indeed - the value of the timer is to postpone the start of charging until you are on cheap rate (assuming that you get "cheap rate" at some point in the day). Once charging has completed on cheap electricity, there is no particular merit in disconnecting the car before you are actually going to use it and, if you use pre-heat, you really want it to continue on charge in order to set off with a battery that is close to fully charged.

 

[MikkB]

Mine is on charge timer every night from midnight to 0700 to use off peak power. When I get up I use the phone app to disable the charge timer, hear the clunk from downstairs to confirm connection then start the preheat.

Why have the timer end at 0700? Why not make it end at 1000? Full is full.

Indeed - the value of the timer is to postpone the start of charging until you are on cheap rate (assuming that you get "cheap rate" at some point in the day). Once charging has completed on cheap electricity, there is no particular merit in disconnecting the car before you are actually going to use it and, if you use pre-heat, you really want it to continue on charge in order to set off with a battery that is close to fully charged.

Another benefit of postponing charging (if not on an E7 rate) is so that the battery reaches full charge just when you plan to drive it. That way avoid leaving the battery standing at full charge overnight, which as I understand it can result in 'leakage' of charge (up to 5%) during the standing period and is not good for battery health/longevity. Additionally, running the pre-heat with the charger still connected just before driving ensures the battery is still close to full charge when setting off.

 

[anko]

Another benefit of postponing charging (if not on an E7 rate) is so that the battery reaches full charge just when you plan to drive it. That way avoid leaving the battery standing at full charge overnight, which as I understand it can result in 'leakage' of charge (up to 5%) during the standing period and is not good for battery health/longevity. Additionally, running the pre-heat with the charger still connected just before driving ensures the battery is still close to full charge when setting off.

True. But what you write applies to setting a start time. I was / we were questioning the setting of an end time as early as 0700 as it makes it more complicated to pre heat the car using grid power (unless one leaves before 0700, of course).

 

[Claymore]

I am cursed with being retired and therefore my departure, most often for a newspaper, is at luxuriously variable times therefore having preheat on the timer is of no use to me.

My off peak power stops at 0800 but I prefer the charge time to have terminated before I may want preheat so that I can use the app to cancel the timer and be assured from hearing the charger reconnect that I'm preheating largely from the grid.

The suggestion that I might delay the start of the timed charge to minimise 'leakage' is certainly a good one and once I figure out how long a full charge from empty takes I may well effect a change to the program.

However, if a full charge takes 5 hours from midnight (and the battery is often showing zero miles range left) I'm not sure how much benefit a 2 hour delay will produce but must be worth a try.

Even at the current sub zero temps however I'm still getting a 10% improvement since fitting the Vredestein Quatrac All Season low rolling resistance tyres.

Changed the timer to start at 0200 - expect to see huge gain tomorrow!

Jim B

 

[anko]

I am cursed with being retired and therefore my departure, most often for a newspaper, is at luxuriously variable times therefore having preheat on the timer is of no use to me.

Haha. I purposely checked your exact wording before writing my earlier response, as I thought you might be leaving mid day and then my suggestion would be pointless. And you wrote "when I get up", not "when I go out". So, I thought I give it a shot.

Seriously, when your trip is just "to get a newspaper" it will be very hard to set a timer such way that you leave while the timer is active and return only when the timer has gone inactive.

 

[MikkB]

Another benefit of postponing charging (if not on an E7 rate) is so that the battery reaches full charge just when you plan to drive it. That way avoid leaving the battery standing at full charge overnight, which as I understand it can result in 'leakage' of charge (up to 5%) during the standing period and is not good for battery health/longevity. Additionally, running the pre-heat with the charger still connected just before driving ensures the battery is still close to full charge when setting off.

True. But what you write applies to setting a start time. I was / we were questioning the setting of an end time as early as 0700 as it makes it more complicated to pre heat the car using grid power (unless one leaves before 0700, of course).

True. I have my end time set at 10.00 for that very reason!