PHEV Depreciation

[Amr79]

Hi,

I am looking at buying a used one year old hybrid Outlander 4hs. If i fail in my search I will have no option but to buy a new one. Price new is £41K but with available online discounts I can get a 4hs from £33K.

What concerns me when buying new is the prices of the one year old models. These cars are selling for around £26K private, dealers are offering £23K as trade in values.

Why is the PHEV losing so much money? Can anyone explain it please?

 

[geoffshep69]

I’m not sure that the PHEV is significantly different from most other cars in terms of depreciation ?

A loss of 30% after 1 year is not unusual, so if you can buy it new for £33k then a value of £23k after 1 year doesn’t seem way off the mark to me.

Have you done any comparison to have a look at prices for other vehicles with a c.£40k price tag to see what they are worth after 1 year ?

 

[elm70]

From 33k as new to 26k as 1y old .. it does not sound too bad as depreciation .

Personally I did jump on my PHEV since I got a 3y old for less then 50% compared to the new price .. and I was allow to trade in my old car that was as well 3y old with a loss from new of around 33% (so my previous car did hold better the value, but is relative normal that an economical car hold better the value, then a "luxury" SUV)

Still I bet ... UK market is different then other markets

In EU we have many NL 2nd hand car that since they don't get much tax advantages there when "old" ... after the leasing they need to be discounted for be sold in NL or exported in other EU countries

I would say that Mitsubishi does not hold very strong the price when used .. so ... it is maybe a good opportunity for get a good value taking a 2nd hand PHEV

The PHEV is a car hard to be abused (except somebody crash it) ... so ... 2nd hand is normally as good as new.

BTW ... if you can get a '17 model for 33k as new ... it does sound a good deal ... if they are discounting only '16 model that is still unsold .. than .. maybe it is not such a great deal.

 

[maby]

I’m not sure that the PHEV is significantly different from most other cars in terms of depreciation ?

A loss of 30% after 1 year is not unusual, so if you can buy it new for £33k then a value of £23k after 1 year doesn’t seem way off the mark to me.

Have you done any comparison to have a look at prices for other vehicles with a c.£40k price tag to see what they are worth after 1 year ?

I would tend to agree - most relatively high end cars depreciate quite heavily in early life. While researching the "What would it take to make you upgrade?" thread, I was looking at second-hand prices - our two and a half year old 4h cost about £31k and we would be lucky to get £20k for it now as a private sale.

The PHEV probably fares a bit worse than most due to concern about the battery life - we just don't know what to expect out of it and a purchaser of my second-hand PHEV will not have the full warranty - quite apart from any questions about the value of the warranty where the battery is concerned.

My son has been looking at Lexus RX450h second hand - that is an expensive car new, but you can pick one up for £10k to £15k just a few years old.

 

[Muddywheels]

£23-26k 1 year old sounds high depreciation to me for a Phev especially if you paid £41k list price new :shock:

I used to change previous LRs around 2-3 years old but changed the last Discovery Sport early due to poor QC/faults - list was £41.5k new with accessories but discounts were hard to get although I managed £2.5k through a uk car broker - after 9 months I was offered £32-35.5k :!:

I bought PHEV based on a friends recommendation - he changed his first phev for MY16 and high depreciation wasn't mentioned - this would prevent me buying another as my fuel savings aren't that massive to compensate :?

 

[geoffshep69]

£23-26k 1 year old sounds high depreciation to me for a Phev especially if you paid £41k list price new :shock:

quote]

True, but I don’t think £41k is the appropriate figure to use. That may well be the list price, but in reality nobody pays that (or shouldn’t !!) and he indicated that it could be bought new for £33k so that’s what the depreciation should be based on in my view.

WhatCar magazine publish a ‘guide price’ for all new vehicles, which takes into account the typical discounts offered by dealers, and the guide price is always significantly lower than the list price.

 

[Amr79]

Thank you gents for your replies. I feel reassured.

The new model would be a MY17 4HS spec, with the first 3 service pack and metallic paint it comes to just under £33K (GBP).

My plan will be to keep the car 3yrs. I have two options;

Option 1: Buy a brand new 2017 model as above.
Option 2: Buy the 1 year old model same spec but with 10K miles service pack and factory tow bar. All for £26K.

What would be the best choice?

 

[elm70]

Can't be same specs
2017 models have new features that befere did not exist on PHEV
For instance the real EV mode, which alone make quite a difference

 

[Amr79]

Can't be same specs
2017 models have new features that befere did not exist on PHEV
For instance the real EV mode, which alone make quite a difference

By same spec i mean a 4HS and yes a MY16.

 

[greendwarf]

If you have spent time reading here, you will find that not everyone shares elm70's enthusiasm for the EV button. Personally, I'm not convinced this and the other changes are worth the difference in price - especially if you are concerned about depreciation.

 

[maby]

If you have spent time reading here, you will find that not everyone shares elm70's enthusiasm for the EV button. Personally, I'm not convinced this and the other changes are worth the difference in price - especially if you are concerned about depreciation.

:lol: Given the short battery range, the EV button is really a philosophical thing - the impact on running cost is minimal, but it does allow you to feel green and virtuous!

 

[Amr79]

If you have spent time reading here, you will find that not everyone shares elm70's enthusiasm for the EV button. Personally, I'm not convinced this and the other changes are worth the difference in price - especially if you are concerned about depreciation.

:lol: Given the short battery range, the EV button is really a philosophical thing - the impact on running cost is minimal, but it does allow you to feel green and virtuous!

I too like the EV button on the new models. If I buy the 2016 version i would look at fitting the Vtec module.

http://vtechtuning.eu

 

[anko]

I too think the EV Only button is a big miss on the early models.

Impact on consumption may (depending on your conditions and usage profile) be minimal, but it allows you to drive the car in an enthusiastic manner without risking unnecessary and very polluting cold starts of the engine on trips that are well within EV range. True, range is limited but if you cannot even utilise that limited range, what's the point? Then again, is it limited? I have a 2 x 40 km commute and about 70% of the year, I don't need any gas for it. Would an EV only button change that? No, but it would allow me to drive the car in a much sportier way (and thus enjoy it much more) and still not use any gas. The PHEV Box by Vtechtuning does the same.

I would also be interested in the default setting of the EV Only button, as there is the other issue of the engine starting because the driver 'forgot' to turn down the heater on his last trip. I have had several occasions where the engine started when I wanted to move my car over a distance of about 20 meters, just into or out of a charge bay. How annoying is that? But if the EV Only button is off by default, it may not solve that issue either.

 

[elm70]

I too think the EV Only button is a big miss on the early models.

Impact on consumption may (depending on your conditions and usage profile) be minimal, but it allows you to drive the car in an enthusiastic manner without risking unnecessary and very polluting cold starts of the engine on trips that are well within EV range. True, range is limited but if you cannot even utilise that limited range, what's the point? Then again, is it limited? I have a 2 x 40 km commute and about 70% of the year, I don't need any gas for it. Would an EV only button change that? No, but it would allow me to drive the car in a much sportier way (and thus enjoy it much more) and still not use any gas. The PHEV Box by Vtechtuning does the same.

I would also be interested in the default setting of the EV Only button, as there is the other issue of the engine starting because the driver 'forgot' to turn down the heater on his last trip. I have had several occasions where the engine started when I wanted to move my car over a distance of about 20 meters, just into or out of a charge bay. How annoying is that? But if the EV Only button is off by default, it may not solve that issue either.

EV button will make the car way more pleasure to drive

Flooring the gas and kick in the ICE does not really help, due to the delay from getting the ICE started and give extra "boost"

With EV mode is possible to floor the gas and have all the 60kw of power, which must of the time is more then enough.

Without EV mode ... the car need to be driven with only 1cm of gas pedal travel ... jes .. after weeks of using it (and heating it) you can get used to it .. still it does not allow to get the full 60kw of power ... at best 50kw .. and always some risk to run ICE and waste fuel ... anyhow ... it is not "funny" to drive with only 1cm of gas .. and not .. kick in the ICE for extra power will not make the car more funny too

I think it is a big thing to have EV mode on the '17 model .. and personally for only 7k difference I will get the new PHEV ... just because is more pleasure to drive

About the vtech PHEV box .. it is not really the same as a real EV button ... vtech has the real EV mode via ODB2 "coding" but unfortunately this has never been made commercially available

Anyhow ... if depreciation/money is the real concern .. I'm sure there are plenty of PHEV '15 or '14 for less then 20k £ ... this will be a better deal then a 26k used PHEV

 

[Amr79]

Anyhow ... if depreciation/money is the real concern .. I'm sure there are plenty of PHEV '15 or '14 for less then 20k £ ... this will be a better deal then a 26k used PHEV


Sorry but i dont like the shape of the old one. Anyhow you misunderstand me, money is not the object, I can afford a new one, its just that I work hard for it and dont like throwing it away hence the question.

Apart from the EV button is there anything else that's significantly different with the 2017 model?

 

[Muddywheels]

I like the idea of the vtech but not arguing with Mitsubishi over warranty claim and informing insurance about modification or being uninsured

I know owners who fitted similar devices to LRs to improve economy or power and had loads of trouble with warranty claims - even removing before visiting dealer - they can find evidence if they want to

 

[Amr79]

I like the idea of the vtech but not arguing with Mitsubishi over warranty claim and informing insurance about modification or being uninsured

I know owners who fitted similar devices to LRs to improve economy or power and had loads of trouble with warranty claims - even removing before visiting dealer - they can find evidence if they want to

Good point muddywheels. I have just sent an email to VTech asking about detection. From their videos it looks an easy fit and remove.

 

[elm70]

Vtech box is not causing any warranty or insurance problem

It stick between the gas pedal line, so it just hack the gas level signal sent to the car
This allows to remap the gas pedal and avoid to ask extra power in eco mode

 

[maby]

Vtech box is not causing any warranty or insurance problem

It stick between the gas pedal line, so it just hack the gas level signal sent to the car
This allows to remap the gas pedal and avoid to ask extra power in eco mode

The PHEV is a highly instrumented car and I would not be too surprised to find that Mitsubishi could detect the presence of the VTech box by inspecting the log records when they download them into the diagnostic computers. How they would view this is a different matter. I guess it could become an issue if you suffer early battery failure - Mitsubishi could argue that you have interfered with their battery management strategy.

 

[jaapv]

The Vtech box does nothing that you could not do with your right foot - it just makes it easier. There is nothing for Mitsubishi to detect - or care about.