Outlander Phev In-Depth Observations - Mike Mas

[littlescrote]

okay thanks.

Leaving aside efficiency.. are you saying that Charge is only available above 65 km ?.. and the engine will only run when above 65 km ?

Or if the engine can be set to run at lower speed and stationary what would be the charging rate when set to Charge ?

No, they're not saying that at all.

It was a pretty clear and comprehensive explanation I think, I don't know what to add to try and explain it any clearer. I'm trying but all I can suggest is re-reading it, or getting someone else to read it and try and explain it to you. Maybe it's just clear to me as I already have one and fully understand how it works.

 

[Rudra]

okay thanks.

Leaving aside efficiency.. are you saying that Charge is only available above 65 km ?.. and the engine will only run when above 65 km ?

Or if the engine can be set to run at lower speed and stationary what would be the charging rate when set to Charge ?

No, they're not saying that at all.

It was a pretty clear and comprehensive explanation I think, I don't know what to add to try and explain it any clearer. I'm trying but all I can suggest is re-reading it, or getting someone else to read it and try and explain it to you. Maybe it's just clear to me as I already have one and fully understand how it works.

oh.

My post has 3 question marks, I haven't said they said….

Not to worry I'll answer my own questions in November.

 

[kpetrov]

Leaving aside efficiency.. are you saying that Charge is only available above 65 km ?.. and the engine will only run when above 65 km ?

Or if the engine can be set to run at lower speed and stationary what would be the charging rate when set to Charge ?

Charge is available always when the battery is under 80% charged.
I am saying that only over 65km/h the engine can directly turn the wheels and is most efficient and one should always plan to use the engine only on speeds over 65km/h if possible.
All that said if one looks for best efficiency of course.

I don't know what the rate of charge will be when stationary, never been interest to know it since it's a nonsense in regular vehicle use for transportation.

 

[LowOnCash]

Thanks for the replies - I noticed when charging on warm to hot days only 80-90 Degrees F, the AC compressor is running during charging cycle. You can tell when this happens since there is the typical water draining out of the car. I found the condensation drain is dripping by the front of the car rather than under the battery. I can only assume when the battery AC is in operation, the front AC evaporator must work in tandem with the battery system which is why the front AC drain is working.

If you switch on the ignition during this AC event there is a "Battery Cooling Warning" displayed on the dash display. Not exactly sure why the temperature would be high enough to run the AC at the Outlander's low level 2 charging rate.

The down side of this AC running mode is it slows the charge rate down even further, since the power to run the AC compressor, evaporator fan in the battery and condenser fan come right off our already too slow charging level. I'll have to check the OBD but the AC mode must draw at minimum 1/3 of the charge rate.

Having said that, owners might consider not charging when returning from a drive. Charging evening or night would allow the battery to self-cool to avoid the AC from running. This would allow faster charging and would be more economical.

Level 1 Charging - In addition to the draw when the AC system is needed to cool the battery, during either a Level 1 or level 2 charging cycle, the processor may run the coolant pump and fan to cool the front coil for the onboard charger. I noted that even during low level 1 / 110 volt charging, the coolant fan and pump are running which drops the level 1 charging even lower than level 1 specs.

Note: Yesterday while the car was charging inside a shaded garage, I witnessed the AC compressor started once to cool the battery since a water puddle appeared under the car. This event must slow the charge rate even more since the power for the AC to operate has to be replenished from the 110 v line.

Regards - Mike

 

[kpetrov]

Not charging immediately after drive, not driving immediately after charge is what a lot folks and myself do.

Why you are so concerned of slow charging? It is better for the battery anyway.
The AC cooling the battery doesn't use 1/3 of the charging, definitely.

 

[LowOnCash]

Not charging immediately after drive, not driving immediately after charge is what a lot folks and myself do.

Why you are so concerned of slow charging? It is better for the battery anyway.
The AC cooling the battery doesn't use 1/3 of the charging, definitely.

Kpetrov,

Thanks for the reply - myself I actually prefer Level 1 / 120v slow charging when I have time, over fast charging since it's better for the batteries health and slow charging allows improved cell balancing, however not everyone myself included can wait 15-17 plus hours to recharge. Also as I mentioned, the charge rate is reduced further since the coolant pump and fan in most cases is running so we might be lucky to even get 1000 watts to the battery.

 

[LowOnCash]

Just plugged in my Outlander the garage is around 80 degrees. The car had 20-21 miles remaining or 47% of full SOC. When calculating the charge it shows 20 hours to complete. The OBD Car Scanner shows around 1.2 kw of actual charge going into the battery. Fortunately the coolant fan and pump is not in operation or this rate would be reduced requiring more time.

This is not great news for someone using full capacity since it would take more than a day to recharge using the supplied Level 1 charger.

Mike

 

[LowOnCash]

Hey guys I noted yesterday while the car was charging inside a shaded garage with temperature at 88 degrees F, I noticed the AC compressor started once to cool the battery since a water puddle appeared under the car. This event has to really slow the charge rate since the power for the AC to operate has to be replenished on the 110 v line as well.

Regards - Mike

 

[Youngfeller]

I have seen numbers like that on the charge app an hour after plugging it in. I leave it plugged in all night and it’s always done charging way before those numbers. 19 can easily become 12

 

[kpetrov]

Just plugged in my Outlander the garage is around 80 degrees. The car had 20-21 miles remaining or 47% of full SOC. When calculating the charge it shows 20 hours to complete.

It seams you are new to this vehicle...
Immediately after one plug it in the time remaining to full charge shown is not the actual one.
It doesn't start charging at normal rate in the beginning thus it doesn't show the correct time remaining right away.

 

[LowOnCash]

Just plugged in my Outlander the garage is around 80 degrees. The car had 20-21 miles remaining or 47% of full SOC. When calculating the charge it shows 20 hours to complete.

It seams you are new to this vehicle...
Immediately after one plug it in the time remaining to full charge shown is not the actual one.
It doesn't start charging at normal rate in the beginning thus it doesn't show the correct time remaining right away.

Thanks for the reply - I was aware estimated dash time was not actual charging time which is why I mentioned charging time is dependent on ambient temperature for cooling. During hot days, the coolant pump and fan to cool the onboard charger as well as current for the A/C system to coll of the drive battery determine actual charging time, since they are powered by the wall unit which is deducted from the charge rate increasing charge time.

For the most part, the dash estimate is fairly accurate. When I discharge to 0 miles it generally takes 15-17 hours. Using an average charge rate of 1000 watts (with losses). A full charge (approx 17 kw) will take roughly 17 hours.

Keep in mind, when your dash display shows 0 miles, the drive battery is still at 25-30% SOC. This capacity is retained in the battery for hybrid driving. Even if driving loads (hills, etc.) reduce this buffer capacity, the engine / generator / regen will replenish it again so there is always sufficient capacity to perform hybrid performance after the battery shows depleted on the dash display.

Regards - Mike

 

[kpetrov]

Just plugged in my Outlander the garage is around 80 degrees. The car had 20-21 miles remaining or 47% of full SOC. When calculating the charge it shows 20 hours to complete.

It seams you are new to this vehicle...
Immediately after one plug it in the time remaining to full charge shown is not the actual one.
It doesn't start charging at normal rate in the beginning thus it doesn't show the correct time remaining right away.

Thanks for the reply - I was aware estimated dash time was not actual charging time which is why I mentioned charging time is dependent on ambient temperature for cooling. During hot days, the coolant pump and fan to cool the onboard charger as well as current for the A/C system to coll of the drive battery determine actual charging time, since they are powered by the wall unit which is deducted from the charge rate increasing charge time.

For the most part, the dash estimate is fairly accurate. When I discharge to 0 miles it generally takes 15-17 hours. Using an average charge rate of 1000 watts (with losses). A full charge (approx 17 kw) will take roughly 17 hours.

Yes, the charging time depends highly on ambient temperature and if it takes 17 hours to fully charge your model it will be consistent at that given ambient temperature.
What I was saying was that the time to charge is not a linear graph and the app doesn't show correctly the estimated time to fully charge it. It shows the estimated time depending where on the non-linear graph line the charge cycle is at the moment.
I believe somewhere after the first hour, hour and half it starts to show the correct time remaining.

 

[themaiz]

Mike, thanks for the review and info. I'm in Australia, and I've had my 23-model PHEV for 2.5 weeks. I've already done 2500km (thanks to some long and interstate trips). In this time I've confirmed that the car is WONDERFUL to drive, and has an absolutely feral and annoying electronics systems - three pages of stupidities and faults already reported to Mitsubishi.

I'm about to get a fast charger installed at home, and selected the Fronius WattPilot 3-phase on-the-go charger because it will tightly interlock with our home solar system (eg: only use opportunistic solar to feed the car), and I can take it with me on the road.

What I only discovered last night is that the Outlander Type 2 connector is single phase. Well. Who knew? Not the dealer. Not anyone here with whom I've discussed charging. So even with a fast Type-2 connected wall-charger I'm going to be limited to 7kW charge rate, which is better than the default 2.4kW Level 1 charger... but not by as much as I had hoped!

I'd appreciate some advice: is there a home CHAdeMO charger that I could use (note: Australia is 240V, 50Hz, 3-phase house supply), or (per one of your earlier comments) is high-voltage rapid charging to be avoided?

By the way, I REALLY want to progress to V2H operation, but there seems to be no regulatory way that I can do that where I live right now.

Thanks, Maiz

 

[Rudra]

I'm in Australia, and I've had my 23-model PHEV for 2.5 weeks. I've already done 2500km (thanks to some long and interstate trips). In this time I've confirmed that the car is WONDERFUL to drive, and has an absolutely feral and annoying electronics systems - three pages of stupidities and faults already reported to Mitsubishi.

What are those 'feral and annoying' issues ?

I've had my '23 ES model (Australia) for two weeks and the only odd behavior I have noticed (so far) is the AC temperature setting jumping to 25C.

 

[themaiz]

Sorry for the delayed reply. I've told the forum to update me when a post comes through.

Ooh... where do I start. I have a three-page document that went to the dealer with the first service. Nothing really resolved yet, other than they confirmed I'm on the latest firmware. BTW, the model is Exceed Tourer, but I'm pretty sure these observations would be common to all models.

In summary, a few of the bullets:

• radio can only be tuned to a station in seek-mode (cannot select or step to a specific frequency). You can not pre-tune to a station you're heading towards.
• radio station presets self-shuffle without warning
• documentation on the entertainment system does not contain enough pictures, and refers to buttons that are not on my display
• no option to beep horn on lock or unlock
• Mitsubishi Connect app is referenced in the manual, but is not available. URLs referenced in the manual go to a 404 page not found (that's an unforgiveable error. There could and should always be a valid page, even if the content is unhelpful.)
• the phone address book cuts off at 4000 entries. I have 4700 address book entries in my phone (and, unsurprisingly, I keep adding more. One or two every day). Worst: it looks like the most recent entries are the ones ignored by the car, so don't appear in the search screen.
• the nav system consistently fails to find valid and known street addresses - I think only one street number has ever been recognised by the car since I took possession. My two most frequently used addresses, both established for way over 30 years, are not found (one is "2", but the car thinks it's "2A", and the other is "20" but the car thinks it's "1/20"). Yes, I updated the maps.
• the nav system consistently directs me away from the most direct route on a country trip (ie: it's REALLY obvious that it wants me to get off a freeway and go a longer/slower route - we're talking 10 minutes or more extra. The system even correctly updates the projected times on approach to take into account the additional time, so that when I ignore it and go past the directed exit, the arrival time drops back again.... )
• in map suggestions (buttons appear at the top) text is so big that the suggestion is useless. What do you select when the options offered appear as "Smi..." "Smi..." and "Smi..." (truncated at the right - you get the idea)
• The car can not be connected to a WiFi point that has a hidden SSID. That's esoteric, but important to us.
• Actually, from the manual it's not obvious WHY you would want to connect to WiFi. It is obvious that I'm not going to get Mitsubishi Connect in Australia any time soon, and that's disappointing.

The nav problems are important to me because I often drive in areas where there is no mobile reception. When you're in the middle of nowhere, a "can't find" message is the last thing you want or need.

So far, and to their credit, none of the dealership or service people have suggested that I could use Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Good decision, because it's not what you want to hear after investing $85k in their product.

OK. That feels a bit better (but doesn't help the car). In Australia many of these failures constitute "unfit for purpose". They are. Sadly they just take the shine of a car that's REALLY lovely to drive.

 

[AndyInOz]

The NAV system can be configured to avoid major roads and yours may be in this condition.

Looking online I can see the following path to get to these options, so, hopefully yours may be similar.

NAV menu, Navigation Settings, Route

Then you probably want the following options:

Route Priority: Fast
Minimise Freeways: No
Minimise Tollroads: No
Minimise Ferries: No

Let us know how you go.

 

[Rudra]

well.. I haven't had any issue with the radio and don’t use the nav system or anything WiFi.

My a/c has again (few times) ‘jumped’ from manual 22C to auto 25C.

But what is really bothering me is the loudness of the reversing noise, it’s like three times the volume of the going forward noise.

Anyone know how to adjust or disable the reversing beep beep ?

 

[nrayanov]

Download Google Maps for the whole country/continent, and you will never again care about your car NAV.

 

[themaiz]

Download Google Maps for the whole country/continent, and you will never again care about your car NAV.

I could. But after the manufacturer and dealer have accepted $75k for a piece of equipment that is at the top of their range, my belief (and I'm pretty sure consumer law) takes the view that an unusable nav system would be deemed unfit for purpose. A nav system should be able to find 99.99% of street addresses in a well-established metro area. This system surprises me when it does find an address - score is almost never.

Also: the integrated nav system puts maps in three places that are quite useful and visible. Google maps does not do that - at best Android Auto takes over the screen in a way that I often find unhelpful.

 

[LowOnCash]

While I touched base on cold weather driving in my article, I've witnessed lately anytime outside temperatures are in the 20's, the engine self-starts to protect the traction battery. At higher temps above 32F, I generally have to turn on the defroster to start the engine.

Don't forget to select "Keep or Hold" mode in freezing weather so it starts the gas engine. This saves your traction battery from high discharge and possible Plating which causes permanent damage to the cells. This allows the engine to provide most of the power needed to drive the car protecting the battery from high discharge and damage.

Ride - Safe - Mike