O.K. - My head hurts - which buttons to press . . . .

[jthspace]

Bet you want to go back to the one line answer now. :lol:

:roll:

However, the answers were interesting and my original question / queries have been answered to MY satisfaction (for the moment)

 

[user 816]

I allow 30 to 40% of my battery to be used, hit the motorway/dual carriageway and hit save. there is no point using battery on the motorway as it burns too quick trying to push a 2 ton brick through the air.

You do realise that, on a long motorway stretch, when you hit Save mode at the beginning of that stretch, you run as much in EV mode as you would when you hit Save towards the end of that stretch? The only difference is that your average SOC has been higher. And with that .... never mind.

Of course I realise that. The point being I am saving it for later when it will more useful.

if you have a period when you need to do lots of quick bursts even in save you can run the battery down until the performance is temporarily limited by the car... its not nice running out of oomph when you need it most, just don't go there!

Before Jeff gets spooked, how often did this really happen to you? :shock:

3 times, twice on the M54 and once on a dual carriageway and that was enough. I don't let it happen now and the novelty of thrashing it has worn off a bit.

One last thing, if you can adopt a relaxed travel style it makes a huge, huge difference. there is a PHEV sweet spot in the 58 - 68 range where even in save its quite effective in building some battery charge up, shutting down the engine and running in EV in the usual cycle. Any faster and the engine tends to run pretty much all the time.

Over a moderate distance this easing off a bit costs the duration of a couple of tracks on the radio worth of extra time and you arrive relaxed, leave all the fast lane pushing and shoving to others, with our traffic these days any gains won are lost in the next mile or so again with something holding you up. Nothing more satisfying cruising up the slow lane past the stationary convoy of BMW's and Audi's in the outside lane that tore past 10 minutes ago

Haha. Couldn't agree more!

 

[anko]

When you are talking about using EV range when it is most useful (in towns and on below 40 MPH stretches) I agree. But for that, you can also rebuild the needed SOC on the last part of your high speed trip.

I was talking about using EV range at the beginning or towards the end of the high speed phase of your trip. For the effectiveness of the electricity used, indeed that doesn't matter. But for the effectiveness of the fuel burend it does matter! Let me again try to clarify what I mean by putting into extreme.

Suppose your trip is 30 miles and you manage 25 miles on electricity. Then you run 5 miles short. Now if you hit Charge or Save immediately after departure (assuming the car will let you), the battery is still full so you cannot increase your SOC / EV range. Therefor, you must drive 5 miles with the engine running, before your remaining EV range matches the number of miles yet to drive. But when you allow the battery to deplete first, you will probably be running on the petrol engine for only 3 miles towards the end of your trip. Because the other 2 missing miles are regained during these 3 miles. So, in the second scenario, the engine will run 40% less time, compared to the first scenario. Of course it will be working harder during that time, but not that much that it evens out. The increased efficiency makes it pay off.

Now, in real life it will not be an extreme on/off scenario as described above. But still, the number of EV miles gained per mile driven on the petrol engine does depend on your SOC.

I don't let it happen now and the novelty of thrashing it has worn off a bit.

That makes sense. But maybe it is best not to advise people on fuel economy based upon our experiences while trashing the car :mrgreen:

 

[maby]

...

And how was I wrong when I said you were more concerned with drivability than with economy?

...:

When we first bought the car, I did focus on economy most of the time. I planned my battery usage, concentrating on low speed sections and all the other things that are believed to improve economy. I still do take it into account on those relatively rare (for me) occasions when power strategy could make a real difference to running costs - effectively journeys of between 30 and 50 or 60 miles.

But, as I described above, the majority of my energy consumption is on motorway speed journeys of around 200 miles. (note that I said majority of my energy consumption - I use the car almost every day, but the short weekday journeys are swamped by the long weekend journeys). My energy consumption is dominated by the petrol consumption cruising at 60 to 70mph - and that comes out at 40-something mpg pretty much irrespective of how you drive the car. I've never reset the manual fuel consumption gauge since we took delivery - it settled at about 46mpg within a few weeks of taking delivery and is pretty stable at that figure. OK, it drops off a couple of mpg in the cold months and picks up again with the warm weather, but it has never read less than 42mpg and never more than 47mpg. Speaking personally, I really cannot be bothered with fiddling with buttons and strategies to save 10% on my fuel consumption. I do believe that the car is more responsive with a reasonable amount of battery than a completely flat battery and the small battery capacity together with the downward drift of SOC over time in Save means that the only way to be sure of having a moderate SOC at the end of my weekend is to run on Save all the time (or run on Charge to bring it back up).

Out of interest, what percentage improvement on energy consumption do you think you could achieve on my pattern of usage?

 

[anko]

From:

For the best economy, stay away from Save and Charge as much as possible. if you anticipate a stretch of "below 40 MPH driving", you may want to use Charge to collect the necessary charge to get across that stretch. That is a simple as I can put it.

Bet we are going to have a more complex discussion once more

Oh, please no! Between us we have tried all sorts of different strategies and the bottom line really seems to be that nothing you do makes a major difference to fuel economy ...

To:

Speaking personally, I really cannot be bothered with fiddling with buttons and strategies to save 10% on my fuel consumption. I do believe that the car is more responsive with a reasonable amount of battery than a completely flat battery and the small battery capacity together with the downward drift of SOC over time in Save means that the only way to be sure of having a moderate SOC at the end of my weekend is to run on Save all the time (or run on Charge to bring it back up).

Of course you can use / drive / experience the car any way you like. So do I, for example when I use it to tow my caravan. But, with all due respect, this is what happens all the time, when the discussion comes up, and what triggers my intense responses: You start with claiming there is no real impact of your driving style to fuel consumption. And after some arguments back and forth you end with saying you don't really care to save 10% of fuel. That doesn't bring us much further

Out of interest, what percentage improvement on energy consumption do you think you could achieve on my pattern of usage?

Don't know. Pretty sure I do not make it worse

 

[maby]

....
And after some arguments back and forth you end with saying you don't really care to save 10% of fuel. That doesn't bring us much further

...

But is 10% a major saving? You get that sort of fluctuation from day to day just based on traffic conditions. 44mpg vs. 54mpg is probably worth some effort, but 44mpg vs. 48mpg really isn't in my book! And I'm not convinced that the difference between my strategy and yours would even be as much as 10% - have you done any moderately long runs in reasonably warm weather without the caravan on the back? What mpg can you get out of it?

 

[gwatpe]

I believe that short of having two cars driving on a test track, each using a different strategy, and comparing the results objectively, we will be no wiser.

Once the computers in the PHEV can supply some objective data that can be recorded and then compared on the same car, on the same roads, in the same weather for different driving styles we will be able to once and for all answer the questions ourselves.

Will take some of the fun out of forum debates though. :lol:

 

[maby]

I believe that short of having two cars driving on a test track, each using a different strategy, and comparing the results objectively, we will be no wiser.

Once the computers in the PHEV can supply some objective data that can be recorded and then compared on the same car, on the same roads, in the same weather for different driving styles we will be able to once and for all answer the questions ourselves.

Will take some of the fun out of forum debates though. :lol:

Quite true - but, despite all the theoretical discussions here, I've never seen anyone actually claim any particular improvement in overall running costs. What is achievable? Obviously there is a massive difference between the running cost in EV mode and that when you are burning petrol and there are big benefits available on short journeys if you can stretch 20 miles up to 30. There are also people that have reported figures of 30mpg or worse as a result of thrashing it at high speeds, but I don't think I've seen anyone claim much better than the 44mpg more or less in pure petrol mode that I'm getting repeatedly.

 

[anko]

But is 10% a major saving? You get that sort of fluctuation from day to day just based on traffic conditions. 44mpg vs. 54mpg is probably worth some effort, but 44mpg vs. 48mpg really isn't in my book! And I'm not convinced that the difference between my strategy and yours would even be as much as 10% - have you done any moderately long runs in reasonably warm weather without the caravan on the back? What mpg can you get out of it?

I would say 10% is huge :shock:
A saving is something quite different than a fluctuation. If your consumption changes from 30 +/- 5 MPG to 33 +/- 5 MPG, you have 10% savings, far less than the 10 MGP fluctuation that you may see as a result of changing conditions. But still, you are doing better.

have you done any moderately long runs in reasonably warm weather without the caravan on the back? What mpg can you get out of it?

Does back and forth to the French alps or even Croatia in the middle of the summer with a 1500 kg caravan qualify? Then, yes. Consumption varies between 25 and 21 MPG. How so?

 

[maby]

....

have you done any moderately long runs in reasonably warm weather without the caravan on the back? What mpg can you get out of it?

Does back and forth to the French alps or even Croatia in the middle of the summer with a 1500 kg caravan qualify? Then, yes. Consumption varies between 25 and 21 MPG. How so?

Sorry, you misunderstood me - I was asking if you had tried a moderately long run without the caravan on the back? Just trying to explore the relative fuel consumption that we are each achieving... I don't have a caravan, so cannot compare with your figure above.

 

[Claymore]

What is 'SOC'?

 

[anko]

State of Charge. How full is the battery. Mostly expressed in percentage.

Be ware: at approx. 30% SOC, the gauge shows 0 or 1 bar. This is because the charge below 27 - 30% is generally not used, to preserve the battery.

 

[anko]

....

have you done any moderately long runs in reasonably warm weather without the caravan on the back? What mpg can you get out of it?

Does back and forth to the French alps or even Croatia in the middle of the summer with a 1500 kg caravan qualify? Then, yes. Consumption varies between 25 and 21 MPG. How so?

Sorry, you misunderstood me - I was asking if you had tried a moderately long run without the caravan on the back? Just trying to explore the relative fuel consumption that we are each achieving... I don't have a caravan, so cannot compare with your figure above.

Ah, yes you are right. As a matter of fact, I should either retest or check earlier posts. I really don't know from the top of my head as I have always been more concerned with relative numbers than absolute numbers.

 

[simonrh]

(a) - Day-to-day : Run on pure EV when I know I can complete whole journey or re-charge at car park.
(b) - Motorway journey : Opinion seems to be to run on EV with "Save" button pressed once I get on a the Motorway, so as to charge the car but get best overall performance. Complete journey on city roads on EV and use "Charge" if I run low.
(c) - A class (non motorway/freeway) road trips - same method as (b) if I get a good non-stop run (dual carriageway, no jams)?


Jeff

I also live in Cambridgeshire and your a, b, c pretty much describes how i use mine too. Day-to-day i just drive it using flappy paddles where i can (more for the sake of it than anything else). The only other thing I would add is that I use the "charge" button to wake the engine up if I know I am going to need a sprightly take-off so the engine isn't going from cold to max in the squeeze of a pedal. Mechanical sympathy I guess.

 

[jthspace]

Thanks, simonrh

I will do exactly that for the next month or so as I get used to the car. Your "charge" comment noted and recorded to memory

Jeff

 

[Ollycat]

Oh blimey. I thought buying one of these was going to be so easy...now I have no idea how I'm supposed to drive it!

And with all the mods..maybe I should just wait for the GX5h....wonder what the upcharge will be like?

 

[Claymore]

State of Charge. How full is the battery. Mostly expressed in percentage.

Be ware: at approx. 30% SOC, the gauge shows 0 or 1 bar. This is because the charge below 27 - 30% is generally not used, to preserve the battery.

Thanks!

 

[jthspace]

Oh blimey. I thought buying one of these was going to be so easy...now I have no idea how I'm supposed to drive it!

And with all the mods..maybe I should just wait for the GX5h....wonder what the upcharge will be like?

I thought it was going to be simple as well - hence my question asking for one-liner answers. As you can see it went a bit (!) deeper than that. I am of the opinion that it should be a pleasure to drive not an adventure. I am going to try the (a) (b) (c) method for a few months and see how I get on. When my wife drives it, she will use (a), not because she doesn't know how to press buttons, but because "it's a car, I am going from x to y". So, it "may" not be as an efficient way to drive it, but as a method of transport, it will work. Anyway, at the dealer for the PHEV, she saw a C3 Picasso and fell in love with it, so I bought it for her - which is a very expensive way of keeping her out of MY car!

So, don't be put off - try the ABC way of driving and it will be fine, I am sure.

As to the modifications, the only ones that I think are definitely required are upgrades to the lights - DRL, High Beam and (maybe) sidelights and all of those can be done for a maximum of £35 / USD 50 / AUS 70 and an hour or so of your time. I am sure paying for a GX5h "just" to get LED's will prove a tad more expensive. Not as expensive as a C3 Picasso, but . . . . . . :roll:

Jeff

 

[Ozukus]

Oh blimey. I thought buying one of these was going to be so easy...now I have no idea how I'm supposed to drive it!

And with all the mods..maybe I should just wait for the GX5h....wonder what the upcharge will be like?

I thought it was going to be simple as well - hence my question asking for one-liner answers. As you can see it went a bit (!) deeper than that. I am of the opinion that it should be a pleasure to drive not an adventure. I am going to try the (a) (b) (c) method for a few months and see how I get on. When my wife drives it, she will use (a), not because she doesn't know how to press buttons, but because "it's a car, I am going from x to y". So, it "may" not be as an efficient way to drive it, but as a method of transport, it will work. Anyway, at the dealer for the PHEV, she saw a C3 Picasso and fell in love with it, so I bought it for her - which is a very expensive way of keeping her out of MY car!

So, don't be put off - try the ABC way of driving and it will be fine, I am sure.

As to the modifications, the only ones that I think are definitely required are upgrades to the lights - DRL, High Beam and (maybe) sidelights and all of those can be done for a maximum of £35 / USD 50 / AUS 70 and an hour or so of your time. I am sure paying for a GX5h "just" to get LED's will prove a tad more expensive. Not as expensive as a C3 Picasso, but . . . . . . :roll:

Jeff

Ollycat and Jthspace,

I have had my PHEV for nearly 12 months and in general my use of the vehicle is as follows:

- Podpoint charging point at home where it is charged to full most evenings
- General driving around local area, never really consuming the full battery, so on return home, will top up battery if it's low or I know I have a longer journey later
- 2 days I commute to work circa 120Miles round trip, mostly motorway
- On outbound trip to office stop off at Cobham services and do a fast charge as battery depleted, grab a nice coffee (sort of see this as free as the cost is offset by the fuel I would use if I hadn't got the fast charge)

From a driving style perspective pretty well all I do is get in it, drop it into B3 (put into drive, then pull back once on lever, nice and simples), and then drive it. The only time I put it into Save mode is after the Cobham Fast Charge as found after fast charge it seems to drain a lot quicker at high speed, so I save that for my return as will be stuck in traffic. That gets me from Langley back to Cobham services before 1 bar hits and the engine kicks in.

With that I am getting between 600 and 900 miles per 35 litres of refuel, which is great compared to my old Yaris diesel that used to give me 550 for 35 litres. Therefore, when I take electric cost into play, it's still better than the Yaris which was my target.

BTW I have a GX3h so no option for preheat etc, if I had that, above figures would be better.

I could do lots of things with Save, Charge, etc, and also try and plug it in wherever I can (but can't be bothered and couldn't justify the £150 cost for the type1 to type2 cable), however for me I find the car is performing aedquately enough not to worry about getting every ounce of EV out of the vehicle I can.

Therefore my recommendation is, firstly just get in it and drive it around, and see how it works for you. If you find out things like engine racing on hills etc, due to your driving conditions, then come back to the forum to look for a solution.

It is a car you can just get in and drive without any issues, with the only consideration that it works best of all with a light touch on the accelerator. So no racing off the lights to make the engine scream

 

[anko]

I could do lots of things with Save, Charge, etc, and also try and plug it in wherever I can (but can't be bothered and couldn't justify the £150 cost for the type1 to type2 cable), however for me I find the car is performing aedquately enough not to worry about getting every ounce of EV out of the vehicle I can.

No moral obligations? That's a pity