Not using charge when temp drops below 10 degrees

[maby]

It does seem to default to only use the engine in series Hybrid mode though when you need the heating (so long as you have charge) so you're still driving on electric power. The ICE isnot driving the wheels directly so I'm assuming this is more efficient? (not seeing much fuel being used in the last week when I've had the heating on).

Also a gx3 owner.

I would assume that it is more efficient for the ICE to drive the wheels directly, but the lack of a gearbox means that it can only do that at relatively high speeds. Around town, it has to run in serial hybrid mode which is effectively a petrol engine with electric transmission.

 

[greendwarf]

It does seem to default to only use the engine in series Hybrid mode though when you need the heating (so long as you have charge) so you're still driving on electric power. The ICE isnot driving the wheels directly so I'm assuming this is more efficient? (not seeing much fuel being used in the last week when I've had the heating on).

Also a gx3 owner.

I would assume that it is more efficient for the ICE to drive the wheels directly, but the lack of a gearbox means that it can only do that at relatively high speeds. Around town, it has to run in serial hybrid mode which is effectively a petrol engine with electric transmission.

It might be that it is only running the engine to provide hot water, whilst still using the charge for traction :?:

 

[maby]

...

It might be that it is only running the engine to provide hot water, whilst still using the charge for traction :?:

I would think that would be horribly inefficient! The point of a modern hybrid is to extract as much useful energy as you can from the petrol you burn - heat is a by-product - usually unwelcome but in the middle of the winter we may actually want it. I believe that the Outlander GX3h in cold weather effectively switches itself to "Save" mode if there is any demand for heating.

 

[jaapv]

...

It might be that it is only running the engine to provide hot water, whilst still using the charge for traction :?:

I would think that would be horribly inefficient! The point of a modern hybrid is to extract as much useful energy as you can from the petrol you burn - heat is a by-product - usually unwelcome but in the middle of the winter we may actually want it. I believe that the Outlander GX3h in cold weather effectively switches itself to "Save" mode if there is any demand for heating.

Well, that is exactly what it is doing when running the ICE at a sub 10 degrees start with a full battery.

 

[maddogsetc]

...

It might be that it is only running the engine to provide hot water, whilst still using the charge for traction :?:

I would think that would be horribly inefficient! The point of a modern hybrid is to extract as much useful energy as you can from the petrol you burn - heat is a by-product - usually unwelcome but in the middle of the winter we may actually want it. I believe that the Outlander GX3h in cold weather effectively switches itself to "Save" mode if there is any demand for heating.

Well, that is exactly what it is doing when running the ICE at a sub 10 degrees start with a full battery.

I'm afraid so. However, it may not be as disastrous as it sounds. Mitsubishi will presumably have engineered the ICE cooling / car heating system to maximize efficiency within the parameters set by a hybrid car. In a conventional car there is no need to do so, so yes it would be very inefficient. But it might not be as bad as we assume in this case.

On another thread I have questioned why they did not fit a direct fuel burning heater such as a Webasto, which would surely be much more efficient. However I think the truth is that the gains would be more than outweighed by having to carry the weight penalty of the additional hardware 365 days a year.

And I think Maby's point about the upfront cost saving of the Gx3h is very valid. The 'payback' for the Gx4h purely for the heating benefit would be very long in the UK climate.

 

[maby]

...
I'm afraid so. However, it may not be as disastrous as it sounds. Mitsubishi will presumably have engineered the ICE cooling / car heating system to maximize efficiency within the parameters set by a hybrid car. In a conventional car there is no need to do so, so yes it would be very inefficient. But it might not be as bad as we assume in this case.

On another thread I have questioned why they did not fit a direct fuel burning heater such as a Webasto, which would surely be much more efficient. However I think the truth is that the gains would be more than outweighed by having to carry the weight penalty of the additional hardware 365 days a year.

And I think Maby's point about the upfront cost saving of the Gx3h is very valid. The 'payback' for the Gx4h purely for the heating benefit would be very long in the UK climate.

Hmmm, don't rush to fit Webastos! We have one on the boat and it is a noisy, temperamental beast! There's not really much choice in a boat that will spend days, or even weeks, away from other sources of power, but not a great idea in a domestic car...

 

[anko]

...

It might be that it is only running the engine to provide hot water, whilst still using the charge for traction :?:

I would think that would be horribly inefficient! The point of a modern hybrid is to extract as much useful energy as you can from the petrol you burn - heat is a by-product - usually unwelcome but in the middle of the winter we may actually want it. I believe that the Outlander GX3h in cold weather effectively switches itself to "Save" mode if there is any demand for heating.

Greendwarf might be right.

When the engine is running to provide heat whilst your car is stopped, the engine produces only about 3 kW (the same as when running truly idle), where it is producing about 10 kW when charging whilst you car is stopped. So, the engine is not generating any electricity when the engine is running for heating purposes whilst your car is stopped.

Equivalently, it seems that when the engine is running for heating purposes whilst going faster that 65 km/h, the car will not engage in parallel mode. Or at least, it seems to take rather long time before it does. Much longer than normal. Is it idling? Need to do some more testing to confirm.

Altogether, the engine may not be generating electricity when it was fired up for heating purposes. If that proves to be correct, in order to have energy generated at the same time, you must engage Charge mode.

BTW: I agree with maby that generating heat via the engine could be much more energy efficient that via the electric heater. Especially at lower temperatures. But, not knowing how long my trip is going to be (do I have enough SOC available?) and not knowing how much I pay for my electricity (or how green my electricity is), the car should not decide for me.

 

[stickfly]

Have to agree with garymullen about salesmen.
Our company just supplied me with a white GX3H after the salesman said it would do 148mpg without ever needing to be plugged in as it charges itself!!
I travel 25 miles into London each day ( and back at night ) then drive around London during the day. Approx 70 miles a day total, with a few weekend miles.
I filled up last Thursday morning and again today ..... working the mileage out by the number of miles I got from the full tank = 29.3 mpg

Regards ........... Gary

 

[maby]

Have to agree with garymullen about salesmen.
Our company just supplied me with a white GX3H after the salesman said it would do 148mpg without ever needing to be plugged in as it charges itself!!
I travel 25 miles into London each day ( and back at night ) then drive around London during the day. Approx 70 miles a day total, with a few weekend miles.
I filled up last Thursday morning and again today ..... working the mileage out by the number of miles I got from the full tank = 29.3 mpg

Regards ........... Gary

It will improve a bit in the warm weather, but that pattern of usage is never going to turn in 148mpg. I think you can probably hope for around 60mpg once the temperature gets above 15 degrees or so.

 

[Kim]

...the salesman said it would do 148mpg without ever needing to be plugged in as it charges itself!!

What a complete idiot! Dooh

 

[Marksuk]

The type of journeys and temperature will dictate on how many mpg you will get.

 

[anko]

...the salesman said it would do 148mpg without ever needing to be plugged in as it charges itself!!

What a complete idiot! Dooh

True. But how about the guy that believed him? The sales guy had a good reason for telling this rubbish: he wanted to sell a car. But what was the reason for the buyer to believe him? :mrgreen: