Motors still driving wheels while stationary?

[user 3409]

All I know is that the car leans and understeers like a Mk1 Range Rover if you push it hard into a corner. And by that I don't mean particularly hard cornering. Its a big heavy, fairly softly sprung vehicle so I was fully expecting it not to handle well and it doesn't. I don't think that changing the tyres will alter the basic suspension charastics. What it has done is relax my driving, I am not racing around at anything like the rate I used to in my old van and that can only be a good thing. Also, while I have always considered myself a economic driver, anticipating traffic and road conditions to minimising braking but the PHEV is making me take it to new levels.

I have found a thread on here where a member has sourced a stiffer rear spring and I am considering looking into fitting them.

 

[jaapv]

I suspect that stiffer springs will make the car jumpy and uncomfortable on short bumps. Stiff anti-roll bars surely would be more effective.

 

[anko]

All I know is that the car leans and understeers like a Mk1 Range Rover if you push it hard into a corner. And by that I don't mean particularly hard cornering. Its a big heavy, fairly softly sprung vehicle so I was fully expecting it not to handle well and it doesn't. I don't think that changing the tyres will alter the basic suspension charastics. What it has done is relax my driving, I am not racing around at anything like the rate I used to in my old van and that can only be a good thing. Also, while I have always considered myself a economic driver, anticipating traffic and road conditions to minimising braking but the PHEV is making me take it to new levels.

I have found a thread on here where a member has sourced a stiffer rear spring and I am considering looking into fitting them.

As it has cleaned up your driving, it seems to me the PHEV is a huge improvement to you and you. Don't think you should change anything :roll:

 

[Steepndeep]

Hi

Maybe you saw my post on fitting Mad-Vertrieb stiffer rear springs? I do agree with Anko that stiffer anti-roll bars are the way to go to stop the unpleasant leaning in sharper curves. I also think that it would benefit from stiffer shocks. My biggest problem was however that, as I frequently run the car loaded to max the rear springs were way to soft. With the really poor conditions on roads in northern Sweden, big ground frost induced bumps and "swell-ice", the standard suspension made you think you would leave half the undercarriage on the road unless slowing to crawl speed. The stiffer springs solved that problem and also improved handling in corners somewhat, even when unloaded. It is a little springy running unloaded over speed-bumps in city streets, but not at all as much as I would have assumed. So all-in-all a very good upgrade.

If anyone has tips on stiffer anti-roll bars I'd appreciate that.

 

[anko]

I do agree with Anko that stiffer anti-roll bars are the way to go to stop the unpleasant leaning in sharper curves.

Thanks for the credits, but I think that was jaapv. To me, there is nothing wrong with the handling of the car. No unpleasant leaning whatsoever.

 

[jaapv]

I would agree that it is quite stable and leans little on fast cornering for a heavy SUV, but on rough roads and off-road it might be a different matter. The car is designed for suburban use, after all. I don't expect it to have the suspension of a Ferrari, nor of a Toyota Landcruiser.
I think it is better than most SUVs for the average users, provided specific SUV tyres are fitted. It is also a good idea to run the tyre pressure at something like 0.2 Bar higher than the factory recommendation.

I can quite understand users adapting the suspension to the use of the car. If I lived, for instance, in a country with few tarred roads I would certainly install lift shock absorbers to negotiate rutted tracks and deep sand.

 

[user 3409]

Hey Guys, thanks for your help.

Stiffer anti roll bars may help with the leaning in corners and as suggested perhaps also stiffer dampers.

Before I took delivery of the car I noticed a few on the road and observed that, when they drove over an undulating surface, like a small depression in the tarmac, they bounced up and down and took a while to stabilise afterwards. They looked just like cars with failed dampers, totally the opposite from those lowered stiffened cars you see that follow every undulation in the road, which also looks pretty uncomfortable.

@anko I had a feeling that somebody would make that observation when I typed it. Just for the record I now drive my PHEV like an old woman. I can't say that about my weekend car :lol:

 

[windymiller]

Ok I have another question.

On my car, when in EV mode, I come to a halt at the traffic lights with my foot on the brake. The display show that there is no energy flow to the wheels and as I know that I will be stopped for a time I apply the electric hand brake so I can release the foot brake and not dazzle the driver behind. At this point the display shows that the motors are trying to drive the wheels and to stop this I dab the brake again and the drive is stopped. The car noticeably 'hunkers down' as the power is removed and it remains stationary held by the hand brake.

My questions are: why does it try to drive the wheels with the brake on and surely there must either be a clutch wearing out while dragging or are the motors straining but not moving, which can't be good for them? Or is there a torque converter not wearing out but getting hot while dissipating the energy?

This is one of the more annoying traits of these vehicles. As a backdrop, we also have a Polaris Ranger EV, which behaves exactly as you think it should - Engage forwards or reverse and it does nothing till you press the throttle. Release the throttle, and it stops. Absolutely perfect for creeping forwards (or backwards), especially when stalking that elusive rabbit!

On the PHEV, its a disaster. For reasons best known to Mitsubishi, they have made it emulate a 1970's hydraulic torque converter automatic gearbox. For no reason whatsoever. Here in the islands, trying to creep forward whilst loading onto a ferry is a carry on. The traffic locads too slowly to just let it creep forward in D with no throttle pressed. So you are on the brakes all the time, convincing the car behind that you actually do not know how to drive properly. The best solution we can come up to is to hold the joystick over to the right. Pull it back to give the drive motors a "blip" then return it to the centre (but still to the right) position to drop back to neutral and coast to a stop. Another "blip" backwards on the joystick to move forward another foot or so. Repeat uptil you get into your allotted loading space.

What on earth were Mitsubishi thinking when they thought it would be a good idea to apply a certain amount of torque as soon as D was engaged? Trying to make it feel like a 1970's Granada Auto?

I am sure that this should be an easy parameter for a good service department to change. Have mentioned it to our dealer, but like everything else, including defects that have been there since new, they just ignore it.

 

[Trex]

On the PHEV, its a disaster. For reasons best known to Mitsubishi, they have made it emulate a 1970's hydraulic torque converter automatic gearbox. For no reason whatsoever.

It was NOT for no reason at all.

I think that I read they wanted to emulate a normal automatic. They stated, from memory, it would make it easier to drive for people coming across from automatics to the PHEV and I tend to agree with them. Toyota with the Prius and Camry Hybrid, again from memory, do the same thing.

 

[jaapv]

And: it is only a disaster if you cannot find the brake pedal... :roll:

 

[windymiller]

And: it is only a disaster if you cannot find the brake pedal... :roll:

Thats when it is a disaster! There you are, in your quietst stalking mode, trying to creep forward very slowly. But the vehicle wants to go far faster. So you apply the brake, which breaks the silence. Rabbits scattering in all directions before you get a chance to get a shot in, as the brakes have given the game away - Quite literally in this case.

One of the many reasons they are quite useless as the "4WD" vehicles that Mitsubishi like to portray them as.

 

[anko]

Ok I have another question.

On my car, when in EV mode, I come to a halt at the traffic lights with my foot on the brake. The display show that there is no energy flow to the wheels and as I know that I will be stopped for a time I apply the electric hand brake so I can release the foot brake and not dazzle the driver behind. At this point the display shows that the motors are trying to drive the wheels and to stop this I dab the brake again and the drive is stopped. The car noticeably 'hunkers down' as the power is removed and it remains stationary held by the hand brake.

My questions are: why does it try to drive the wheels with the brake on and surely there must either be a clutch wearing out while dragging or are the motors straining but not moving, which can't be good for them? Or is there a torque converter not wearing out but getting hot while dissipating the energy?

This is one of the more annoying traits of these vehicles. As a backdrop, we also have a Polaris Ranger EV, which behaves exactly as you think it should - Engage forwards or reverse and it does nothing till you press the throttle. Release the throttle, and it stops. Absolutely perfect for creeping forwards (or backwards), especially when stalking that elusive rabbit!

On the PHEV, its a disaster. For reasons best known to Mitsubishi, they have made it emulate a 1970's hydraulic torque converter automatic gearbox. For no reason whatsoever. Here in the islands, trying to creep forward whilst loading onto a ferry is a carry on. The traffic locads too slowly to just let it creep forward in D with no throttle pressed. So you are on the brakes all the time, convincing the car behind that you actually do not know how to drive properly. The best solution we can come up to is to hold the joystick over to the right. Pull it back to give the drive motors a "blip" then return it to the centre (but still to the right) position to drop back to neutral and coast to a stop. Another "blip" backwards on the joystick to move forward another foot or so. Repeat uptil you get into your allotted loading space.

What on earth were Mitsubishi thinking when they thought it would be a good idea to apply a certain amount of torque as soon as D was engaged? Trying to make it feel like a 1970's Granada Auto?

I am sure that this should be an easy parameter for a good service department to change. Have mentioned it to our dealer, but like everything else, including defects that have been there since new, they just ignore it.

A lot of verbal violence for something that is just a matter of taste :roll:

 

[greendwarf]

And: it is only a disaster if you cannot find the brake pedal... :roll:

Thats when it is a disaster! There you are, in your quietst stalking mode, trying to creep forward very slowly. But the vehicle wants to go far faster. So you apply the brake, which breaks the silence. Rabbits scattering in all directions before you get a chance to get a shot in, as the brakes have given the game away - Quite literally in this case.

One of the many reasons they are quite useless as the "4WD" vehicles that Mitsubishi like to portray them as.

As a vegan - I say good for Mitsu - :lol:

 

[windymiller]

A lot of verbal violence for something that is just a matter of taste :roll:

Not so much a case of "taste", but as the OP flagged up, practicality. The motors are driving, or least applying torque, when they do not need to. In many applications, this is impractical, rather than "untasteful". As the OP suggested, it traffic, it means the motors are driving unnecessarily. As I am highlighting, in commercial vehicle situations, it behaves impractically.

I am not entirely convinced by the suggestion that it makes t easier for traditional auto drivers to "convert" to PHEV driving. The amount of torque applied is similar to a 1970's 3 speed hydraulic auto box, and not like a modern auto. Mitsubishi seem to have managed to get petrol drivers to "convert" without the need for a manual key starter on the steering column to make them feel at home - They don't even provide a manual choke knob for any real "retro drivers" to save them looking for it!

Anyway, back to the original point - Applying torque on engaging D is pointless, and a waste of (a small amount) of energy. The only benefit seems to be that it makes 1970's auto drivers feel at home.

 

[jaapv]

And: it is only a disaster if you cannot find the brake pedal... :roll:

Thats when it is a disaster! There you are, in your quietst stalking mode, trying to creep forward very slowly. But the vehicle wants to go far faster. So you apply the brake, which breaks the silence. Rabbits scattering in all directions before you get a chance to get a shot in, as the brakes have given the game away - Quite literally in this case.

One of the many reasons they are quite useless as the "4WD" vehicles that Mitsubishi like to portray them as.

As a vegan - I say good for Mitsu - :lol:

Not a Vegan, but rooting for the rabbits. Hunting from a car? Not quite sportsmanlike, I'd say.

 

[windymiller]

Shame on Mitsubishi to be selling vehicles to that market!

https://basc.org.uk/membersoffers/basc-motoring-services/mitsubishi/

 

[Trex]

As a vegan - I say good for Mitsu - :lol:

:lol: :lol:

Yea I am a vegan too. But I still eat steak. Oh, I love a good steak. And fish. Oh, I love fish. And I do love a meat pie sometimes...........

 

[Trex]

Not a Vegan, but rooting for the rabbits. Hunting from a car? Not quite sportsmanlike, I'd say.

Hey jaapv I reckon we should arm the rabbits with rifles so they can fight back. Even up the odds a bit.

 

[Trex]

Anyway, back to the original point - Applying torque on engaging D is pointless, and a waste of (a small amount) of energy. The only benefit seems to be that it makes 1970's auto drivers feel at home.

Ok windymiller,

I'll bite as it sounds very trollish to me. So in your opinion (and you should state that as it is ONLY your opinion unless you can back it with facts and figures or use words like "I think" otherwise you will appear to others as a smart arse. But hey, that is my opinion ) "Applying torque on engaging D is pointless". Well I disagree. I think that it is handy to just crawl along feathering the brake pedal to control speed when needed. One pedal does everything needed in this case when in your case you need 2 IMO .

Or here is a idea. :idea: I think you should get off your arses and be stealthy on your feet, when hunting, like we do here unless spotlighting at night. But hey, that is just IMHO ,

 

[Phevy]

I strongly recommend you try the autohold. It’s not just useful in hilly areas but whenever you are in an urban environment or stop start traffic.
...
It’s a great feature once you learn to trust it!!!

I completely agree. I use it if I don't want creep. And it saves on electricity. I use it far more on flat roads then on hills.