Is a charge point necessary/worth it?

[allplayandnowork]

Maybe even just an outdoor socket that has a timer integrated may be useful as you're adding it a fresh.

What benefit would a timer be? The charger works off the app timer right?

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

...via a smart socket...

Ah, thanks. I followed the link but couldn't see what kind of smart socket you had. I suspect I wasn't clear and I don't have a covered charging area so it's exposed to the elements. As a result, I can't plug my smart "thro" socket into my outdoor 3 pin plug as it renders the whole set up exposed to the rain.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Maybe even just an outdoor socket that has a timer integrated may be useful as you're adding it a fresh.

What benefit would a timer be? The charger works off the app timer right?

Thanks for the reply. Hmm, I don't know why but i'd dismissed the app timer as being cumbersome. So you plug the car in, log on the app, set the timer for when you want to charge and move on with your day. I don't know why i'd made such a meal of it!

That's one challenge overcome then (how to, say, only charge to 80%ish if I wanted to avoid any fear that even slow charge to 100% all the time would degrade the battery. In truth I just go 100% knowing that i'd be devastated to drive on ICE if my range could have got me there on EV).

The other challenge I had was to know how much kw I was putting in to know my equivalent fuel economy (my friends LOVE me talking about it in the pub lol). I think ultimately i have a fair view having charged it from empty a couple of times throu a smart plug when it was dry, the answer for me is 7.41kw.

 

[elm70]

Thanks for the reply. Hmm, I don't know why but i'd dismissed the app timer as being cumbersome. So you plug the car in, log on the app, set the timer for when you want to charge and move on with your day. I don't know why i'd made such a meal of it!
...

The apps would be nice if would not be based on WiFi, but on a GSM/3G system in the car

Te PHEV WiFi signal is too weak, and the apps work fine only if almost full WiFi signal is received by the phone .. in my case , 5 meter away form my car, with a normal brick wall in the middle : I can't use the app while inside my house

I have the standard 10A charge included with the car .. and I put a WiFi switch on it (which does connect to my home WiFi, and from there is controllable and monitored from everywhere in the world)

Now I can control from the apps of my switch how much energy is consumed, and I can have multiple programmed on/off timer switch

I just need to remember how much SOC I have left on the car ... and based on my next usage I can plan how and how much to charge my car ... I have also double electricity tariff at home, with peak cost double as night electricity costs .. the 2x factor in kwh price is something I'm quite sensible

Anyhow ... GSM/3G module would be a bit of extra cost for Mitsubishi (so for end customer / us) ... but I think it would be well worth it. Especially with associated GPS location over GSM/3G .. it would be an extra safety feature very valuable
They could have at least implemented their wifi to be able to connect to the home wifi .. this would extend massively the range and usability at virtual no extra cost (just a basic software update, which a cheap chinese switch can deliver at incredible low price)

About a fix home charging point ... in my view I would not see any benefit on having one at home, actually this would made me dependent on Mitsubishi WiFi charging timer which are not really practical to be used.

 

[elm70]

PS: The worst thing that we can do for our battery ... it is to start charging the car immediately after the usage

So .. without any timer ... I expect normal behavior is to arrive back at home, and connect the car to the charger ... so the car get charged while the battery is potential "warm" (can be up to 35deg, which is not ideal temp for charge the battery) .. and then it can sit many many hours fully charged ... multiply for 365 days in a year, it is a very bad treatment for the battery

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

PS: The worst thing that we can do for our battery ... it is to start charging the car immediately after the usage

I didn't know that, thanks. Mostly we know that the car will not go anywhere between 10pm and 7am so I should change my approach, plug it in so I don't forget but with the timer set for a charge middle of the night.

I agree, mobile connectivity would be good so that I don't need to be near the car to charge, I think the Leaf has this but hey ho. I don't have similar problems connecting through a fairly thick brick wall, I wonder why this is. It's a new build so maybe your walls are too good quality!

 

[cornclose]

Ah, thanks. I followed the link but couldn't see what kind of smart socket you had. I suspect I wasn't clear and I don't have a covered charging area so it's exposed to the elements. As a result, I can't plug my smart "thro" socket into my outdoor 3 pin plug as it renders the whole set up exposed to the rain.

My smart socket is indoors next to the main breaker box under my stairs. This links to the outdoor (weather-proof) socket from where I connect my factory charger/lead.

My smart socket automatically switches on at 22:00 every night as long as I am home, which it knows from geo-fencing my mobile phone. So it only charges my Outlander when I am home. It goes off every morning at 08:00 or if I leave the geo-fenced area (e.g. if I get up and leave early..). So if I am away, my systems knows so it leaves the outdoor socket off and no-one can steal my electric!

 

[elm70]

PS: The worst thing that we can do for our battery ... it is to start charging the car immediately after the usage

I didn't know that, thanks. Mostly we know that the car will not go anywhere between 10pm and 7am so I should change my approach, plug it in so I don't forget but with the timer set for a charge middle of the night.

I agree, mobile connectivity would be good so that I don't need to be near the car to charge, I think the Leaf has this but hey ho. I don't have similar problems connecting through a fairly thick brick wall, I wonder why this is. It's a new build so maybe your walls are too good quality!

Definitely I don't have the best possible house walls ...

The wifi signal is sometime visible from my living room, which is maybe 10m far in line air with my car in the garden.
Clearly no hope to do anything with a weak signal ... I have to say there are multiple walls between living room and car
Then I tried the house entrance .. so only the main door between the phone and the car, and 5m distance ... and is not working most of the time
Finally, moving into the "studio" room, that is 2m from the car, only with the phone next to the window I can operate the wifi ... from that spot, I can also control the Dog over bluetooth

Maybe my car is position in the wrong way ... since the nearest part to me is the car charging point .. so possibly the WiFi module is on the opposite site of the car ... still the bluetooth module is on the most far spot , and has similar range then WiFi

Possibly ... is my car which might not have the WiFi antenna located in the best spot ... as well .. my old Sony phone could have its share of responsibility

What work better is the keyfob ... I can activate with the keyfob hack the car cabin per-heating from quite far away ... even from my office down to the car parking lot . ~35m of distance

Anyhow ... having free flexibility over the start and stop of the charge using the wifi wall power switch ... I have always my car connected to the charger .. but the power is give only as late as possible and only for the needed amount for make the planed trip on the next day ...

 

[cornclose]

It should be easy to set up routing from your normal home/work network to be able to connect to the Outlander WiFi;

1. Install a WiFi Access Point close to the Outlander, with the same SSID and password as the Outlander's, and set it up in 'repeater'/'extender' mode so that it connects wirelessly to the Outlander (depending on the AP, it may be required to set it up in 'router' mode, with the WiFi as the 'internet'/'red' interface, but this is not possible on all routers/AP's..)
2. At the cable side (Ethernet RJ-45) of the Access Point, have this connected to your existing home/work network with a static IP.
3. On your main home/office router, set up a static route to the subnet of the Outlander's WiFi network (192.168.8.x if I recall correctly..) specifying the gateway as the static IP address of the new Access Point (item 1/2 above).
4. Connect your phone to the WiFi of your home/work as usual, launch the Mitsubishi app, connect to the car as usual from anywhere you are connected to your WiFi.

This is something I will be doing shortly as the range of the Outlander's AP is abysmal..

You could, if you wanted, install an AP inside the Outlander itself, with a 3G/4G SIM, and configure to access the Outlander from anywhere in the world, although this would be more involved.

 

[elm70]

Ah, thanks. I followed the link but couldn't see what kind of smart socket you had. I suspect I wasn't clear and I don't have a covered charging area so it's exposed to the elements. As a result, I can't plug my smart "thro" socket into my outdoor 3 pin plug as it renders the whole set up exposed to the rain.

My smart socket is indoors next to the main breaker box under my stairs. This links to the outdoor (weather-proof) socket from where I connect my factory charger/lead.

My smart socket automatically switches on at 22:00 every night as long as I am home, which it knows from geo-fencing my mobile phone. So it only charges my Outlander when I am home. It goes off every morning at 08:00 or if I leave the geo-fenced area (e.g. if I get up and leave early..). So if I am away, my systems knows so it leaves the outdoor socket off and no-one can steal my electric!

Most probably your car get fully charge around 2am .. which is sub-ideal ..

Geo-feced timed activated ... it is sounding very cool :ugeek:

 

[cornclose]

Most probably your car get fully charge around 2am .. which is sub-ideal ..

Not if I leave at 02:30 !! :lol:

I could adjust the on time to give me the 5-5.5 hours full charge, but I'm not always fully empty..

Ideally, I could get the SOC from the car and then calculate the time required to reach full charge, then work back from there..! :mrgreen:

 

[elm70]

It should be easy to set up routing from your normal home/work network to be able to connect to the Outlander WiFi;

1. Install a WiFi Access Point close to the Outlander, with the same SSID and password as the Outlander's, and set it up in 'repeater'/'extender' mode so that it connects wirelessly to the Outlander (depending on the AP, it may be required to set it up in 'router' mode, with the WiFi as the 'internet'/'red' interface, but this is not possible on all routers/AP's..)
2. At the cable side (Ethernet RJ-45) of the Access Point, have this connected to your existing home/work network with a static IP.
3. On your main home/office router, set up a static route to the subnet of the Outlander's WiFi network (192.168.8.x if I recall correctly..) specifying the gateway as the static IP address of the new Access Point (item 1/2 above).
4. Connect your phone to the WiFi of your home/work as usual, launch the Mitsubishi app, connect to the car as usual from anywhere you are connected to your WiFi.

This is something I will be doing shortly as the range of the Outlander's AP is abysmal..

You could, if you wanted, install an AP inside the Outlander itself, with a 3G/4G SIM, and configure to access the Outlander from anywhere in the world, although this would be more involved.

I believe this must be easy for you.

I like to hack a bit with routers, I'm using some static IP address in my home WiFi for my custom home server (cabled to the WiFi router) ... but I believe you are on a different league

Time ago I got multiple WiFi repeaters for trying to extend the range of my old Bebop Parrot (only the weakest repeater was compatible ) ... maybe one of them could be used as per your point 1 ... but ... I'm not enough passionate over the PHEV WiFi apps ... the constrains on the programmable timers is already a show stopper for invest my time on trying to use this apps outside its original scope.

 

[elm70]

Most probably your car get fully charge around 2am .. which is sub-ideal ..

Not if I leave at 02:30 !! :lol:

I could adjust the on time to give me the 5-5.5 hours full charge, but I'm not always fully empty..

Ideally, I could get the SOC from the car and then calculate the time required to reach full charge, then work back from there..! :mrgreen:

I had before a simple cheap timer switch .. and it was programmed mainly to give power every time the electricity was cheap (10pm to 6am, and 1pm to 3pm)

Still .. with time I changed that power was provided only after midnight, since at 6am the car will be fully charged without any issue.

I don't know how often you use your car at 2:30am ... but maybe it is more effective to set the timer to have the car fully charged at 8am or whatever time in the morning you use the car.

Possibly there is still the weekend different pattern usage of the car ... that might make things more complicated

Eventually ... they need to put some AI in the PHEV .. and the car should learn the usage pattern .. and define automatically when to charge the car and up to which level :mrgreen: ... or even better make a battery that does not have problem to be left fully charged

 

[cornclose]

the constrains on the programmable timers is already a show stopper for invest my time on trying to use this apps outside its original scope.

Possibly there is still the weekend different pattern usage of the car ... that might make things more complicated

These things are actually very easy once you have smart switch which can be programmed to turn on and off depending on multiple conditions, one of the main reasons I installed it. The other main reason is to know how many kWh I am stuffing into the car..

I will certainly be adjusting my schedules to arrive at a full charge nearer to the time I use the vehicle though. Unfortunately I sometimes do have very early starts, such as leaving for an early flight.. etc.

 

[allplayandnowork]

I will certainly be adjusting my schedules to arrive at a full charge nearer to the time I use the vehicle though.

What difference does it make when the charge cycle finishes?

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Elm70 mentioned it on page 3, that it's tough on the battery health to start charging immediately on your return, and also tough on your battery to make it hold full charge for too long.

I'm going to take it as fact as nobody has jumped on him for the statement

My routine is too broken to factor in how long I charge but I've set up a 2am to 6am charge now. My challenge is what I do when we come back from friends this morning and need it later in the day. I guess I go on the app and override the timer which I'm cool with but my wife isn't quite so invested in.

As it's the baby car now and she'll be driving more I think I'm going to just charge it at the first opportunity as I have been and except the battery SOH.