Instant MPG display GX3

[elm70]

I don't think a Prius diesel exists. So, how can you ever compare it to a Diesel? You also compared the PHEV to an X1 diesel earlier. Again, apples and oranges. If you want to compare the PHEV with something, compare it to an Outlander Diesel. Or better, compare it to a standard petrol Outlander. Have you done that? I am pretty sure it outperforms a petrol Outlander, even with a depleted battery.

Comparison between Outlander Diesel and PHEV has been done .. and Diesel has been shown to be more fuel efficient then PHEV (once added in the equation the cost of electricity)

About diesel ... People can like or dislike diesel .. some countries has been enemy of diesel cars, other have been big supported of them ... I guess is a cultural thing mainly

I don't smell anything wrong from a modern diesel engine
And to drive a diesel, in 99% of cases it means to drive a turbo, which has nice acceleration
I find normal petrol aspirated engine ... quite boring

At the tank station, petrol stinks way more then diesel when taking the car

Anyhow ... since most of the people here use EV mode over 90% of the time ... efficiency of the Outlander PHEV ICE is not much relevant .. but ... considering how much is shown the fuel consumption when the battery goes to zero and start the cyle charge-discharge ... I doubt that the selected ICE is an efficient engine ... my bet is that Mitsubishi designed/decide for the ICE mainly on reliability , simplicity and production costs .. not much about performance or fuel efficiency of the ICE

Anyhow ... it is a long story .. already over discussed here ... so .. I will close it here

PS: About car selection .. PHEV and "permanent" 4x4 ... there is no other option in the market for now

 

[anko]

Anyhow ... it is a long story .. already over discussed here ... so .. I will close it here

Of course, mr moderator :mrgreen:

 

[greendwarf]

As always ... any detail open door for change the main focus

Fact is that if this PHEV did not had a Plug In .. the hybrid technology used would not really help fuel consumption

Prius, which is Petrol and not Diesel, is an example that show how Petrol in Hybrid can do as good if not even better then Diesel

To me it sounds that something wrong has been done in some design decision of this PHEV

Of course the Prius didn't kill 10,000 people in London with fumes last year but it still pumps out CO2 to contribute to Global Warming - which is why it no longer meets the London Congestion Charge exemption criteria - unlike the PHEV. If you live, travel & work in a city this car is the future :mrgreen:

 

[geoffshep69]

I don't think a Prius diesel exists. So, how can you ever compare it to a Diesel? You also compared the PHEV to an X1 diesel earlier. Again, apples and oranges. If you want to compare the PHEV with something, compare it to an Outlander Diesel. Or better, compare it to a standard petrol Outlander. Have you done that? I am pretty sure it outperforms a petrol Outlander, even with a depleted battery.

Comparison between Outlander Diesel and PHEV has been done .. and Diesel has been shown to be more fuel efficient then PHEV (once added in the equation the cost of electricity)

Thats a somewhat bold statement, yet you make it out as if it is an undeniable fact that a diesel is more efficient than a PHEV.

I guess you are referring to the Australian video where they compared two cars over a certain journey in which the diesel came out on top. That's fair enough, and in that specific scenario, for that particular distance and type of journey, yes the diesel came out marginally better.

But for many many other situations it is clear that a PHEV performs better than a diesel. I dont think there's any doubt that someone doing 8k miles a year, mostly local journeys, will find the PHEV better, whereas someone doing 100k miles a year, mostly motorway, will be better off with a diesel. The more miles you do will reduce the benefit of a PHEV, but for my profile of c.15k miles a year its very obvious that a PHEV will still far outperform a diesel.

 

[elm70]

Of course the Prius didn't kill 10,000 people in London with fumes last year but it still pumps out CO2 to contribute to Global Warming - which is why it no longer meets the London Congestion Charge exemption criteria - unlike the PHEV. If you live, travel & work in a city this car is the future :mrgreen:

Actually I like global warming ... it reduces the pain to live in a place that was used to go to -25deg in winter :ugeek:

About the future .. it is remote work / net work ... lot of commutes are useless in our societies ... this is about to be green : avoid to waste energy when is not needed

Anyhow .... in and out from a list .. is only "political" decision .... blame cars for global warming and pollution ... is also political .. there are tons of source of pollution and co2 ... also I would challenge the fact that diesel kills ... what about the tons of oil burner used for heating house and building ...

 

[elm70]

Thats a somewhat bold statement, yet you make it out as if it is an undeniable fact that a diesel is more efficient than a PHEV.

I guess you are referring to the Australian video where they compared two cars over a certain journey in which the diesel came out on top. That's fair enough, and in that specific scenario, for that particular distance and type of journey, yes the diesel came out marginally better.

But for many many other situations it is clear that a PHEV performs better than a diesel. I dont think there's any doubt that someone doing 8k miles a year, mostly local journeys, will find the PHEV better, whereas someone doing 100k miles a year, mostly motorway, will be better off with a diesel. The more miles you do will reduce the benefit of a PHEV, but for my profile of c.15k miles a year its very obvious that a PHEV will still far outperform a diesel.

Yes, I refer to the video from Australia .. which was a mix of city and motorway trip. So quite representative of a generic car usage

Yes, for trip under 50km, done only in EV mode ... if battery is charge from the network .. it is more economical the PHEV.

Mainly because fuel taxation is very high, and electricity taxation is "normal" ... put same taxes on electricity and the economy of EV is getting questionable.

PS: Miles/km per years are not relevant ... what is relevant is which usage is done with PHEV ... for commute or for short trips it is perfect .. as weekend car for make excursions (over 100km round trip) ... even if this will do low km per year .. it will be not "economical" ... but at least compared to a pure EV car .. long trips are possible, while even with on long range Tesla some vacation trips will be totally impossible

 

[geoffshep69]

OK, so on that basis I can make this statement:

Comparison between Outlander Diesel and PHEV has been done .. and PHEV has been shown to be more fuel efficient then diesel (once added in the equation the cost of electricity)

You make the statement based on one scenario, I make it based on another, my own experience.

I would hope that most people are sensible enough to do some research before they a buy a PHEV and to consider whether or not its the right vehicle for them, or whether they'd be better off with a diesel.

I'd also argue that miles per year is a relevant factor, albeit not the only one. If you are doing 100k miles a year, the vast majority of that will be on petrol as there is not sufficient time to be able to charge and do it on EV. So the more miles you do, the more petrol you use, and the less beneficial the PHEV becomes. Mitsubishi even point this out in their brochures / website etc.

 

[pasquinade]

Hi all,

new PHEV owner here and I'd just like to add something to this PHEV/Diesel. My previous car was a diesel Volkswagen which was getting a slow death due to 5-10km commute in the morning and another in the afternoon (dropping off and picking up kids from school and getting to/from nearby job). Yearly I do around 20k km, but due to summer and Christmas cross country trips (2-3 weeks a year). Current diesel engines with particle filters, EGRs, etc. suffer a lot from this "use case" - even traditional engines were not at their best in these conditions. So I sold it, which at 5 years means a huge loss with 17% depreciation a year (e.g. equivalent to a 320 euro/month rent for the five years)....

My only certainty when I was looking for a new car was I wanted Petrol. Where I live I could not find a reasonably sized BMW, Volkswagen, etc with petrol engines and "reasonable fuel consumption". I found the PHEV almost by chance (I confess I was not looking at Mitsubishi) and it started growing on me.

Anyway, long story short, just to say that if I count depreciation costs on a 5 year cycle with Diesel, vs a 10 year cycle with PHEV (I'm counting on the 8 year battery warranty + a little bit before any major repairs are required) for the above use case, perhaps the PHEV - even without the plugin part - is not such a bad deal.

Thanks for the forum, which has a lot of info.

 

[Grigou]

As always ... any detail open door for change the main focus

Fact is that if this PHEV did not had a Plug In .. the hybrid technology used would not really help fuel consumption

Prius, which is Petrol and not Diesel, is an example that show how Petrol in Hybrid can do as good if not even better then Diesel

To me it sounds that something wrong has been done in some design decision of this PHEV

I'm afraid I must agree with that.

It seems that the RAV 4 hybrid is [much ?] better in terms of fuel consumption than the Outlander PHEV on motorways in hybrid mode (mode Save or empty battery for the Mitsu).

This assertion is difficult to prove of course, it comes from some forums.
But it seems too, that the PHEV is not better (perhaps worse) than a simple petrol Honda CR-V 4 with automatic gearbox at 130 kph (GPS).
Whatever, 11 litres per 100 km is not a very good value, and I'm rather convinced that the RAV 4h doesn't reach this value, nor the CR-V.

 

[AC2]

As always ... any detail open door for change the main focus

Fact is that if this PHEV did not had a Plug In .. the hybrid technology used would not really help fuel consumption

Prius, which is Petrol and not Diesel, is an example that show how Petrol in Hybrid can do as good if not even better then Diesel

To me it sounds that something wrong has been done in some design decision of this PHEV

I'm afraid I must agree with that.

It seems that the RAV 4 hybrid is [much ?] better in terms of fuel consumption than the Outlander PHEV on motorways in hybrid mode (mode Save or empty battery for the Mitsu).

This assertion is difficult to prove of course, it comes from some forums.
But it seems too, that the PHEV is not better (perhaps worse) than a simple petrol Honda CR-V 4 with automatic gearbox at 130 kph (GPS).
Whatever, 11 litres per 100 km is not a very good value, and I'm rather convinced that the RAV 4h doesn't reach this value, nor the CR-V.

I currently own a RAV4 diesel but a diesel is not right for me now since my annual mileage dropped from 30,000+ motorway to 5000 non motorway. I am trying to choose between the outlander and rav4 hybrid - one day I think RAV next day I think outlander. Had the real world mpg on the RAV been nearer 45-50 I would have gone for it but I suspect it's much less. There are a couple of reviews , Robert Llewelyn and caranddriving and when you pause it at the moment the current mpg bar graphs are displayed most trips show <40 although once Robert managed 65. I think I may have accept that if I want an SUV, AWD and lot's of room in the back for my model planes I am going to have to pay a price whichever I choose.