Increasing performance from ICE?

[greattestis]

Hi,

Mostly my driving consists of doing 80 - 100 km/h in two-lane freeway. While I love my PHEV and getting those EV kilometers in, I have some concerns when passing trucks for example.

The summer limit is 100 km/h in these roads and passing a truck going 80 km/h takes some time.

Has anyone gotten any ECU performance upgrade / PHEV OS upgrade for the PHEV ICE itself? I tried searching but unfortunately didn't find any.

http://www.2018-mitsubishi-icetraining.com/Files/Documents/EN/OutlanderPHEV2017icetrainingPressRelease.pdf

Page 17:

"It should be noted that the Outlander PHEV power system never runs at a maximum output, i.e.
combining all its various components (ICE + front motor + rear motor) at the same time. Instead, the
PHEV OS will always look for the best combination of Drive Modes - and therefore power source -
according to driving conditions. "

So I'm wondering if we could somehow get situational power via upgrade?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvPAQi5uDhU
In this video, the performance is mentioned to be superbly higher (over 200hp and over 400nm of torque). I don't know if it is BS.

BR,
GT

 

[greendwarf]

Pressing Charge before you start to accelerate will wake up the ICE if you are in EV but frankly I have never noticed a problem overtaking at that sort of mid-range speed - getting up to 150kmh very quickly on a similar road in Ireland .

If you are already in non-EV then having battery to boost the ICE will help, so best to have some in reserve by using Save and/or Charge on this sort of journey.

 

[jaapv]

It should be a simplistic sum. Basically the maximum power on board is 60+60+89 kW = 209 kW.
However, the electric motors can produce 60 kW each, The battery can only provide 60 kW, so the other 60 must come from the ICE, which leaves 29 kW to drive the car through the clutch, making the effective maximum power 60+60+29=149 kW.

Whether chip-tuning the ICE will make much of a difference is unknown, as it is not clear if the power management of the car is able to adapt to the different power balance between the components. I seem to recall that VTech tried it once, years ago.

 

[HHL]

Not sure why you would want to do that. When the car is in parallel hybrid mode it has heaps of torque between 80 and 100km/h. The electric motors will add over 250Nm to that available from the petrol engine when required, provided the battery has a reasonable charge (>30%) in it.

 

[elm70]

I don't believe there is any traditional chip tuning that can increase the power of our PHEV, especially between 80 to 100km/h

Traditional chip tuning on non turbo engine, produce very little power increase .. possibly ~ +5% power increase ... already in traditional car is quite useless to try to modify the non turbo cars

Anyhow, when the accelerator pedal is floored, our PHEV work in serial mode (until 120/130km/h) .. in serial mode the acceleration power is coming only from the two eMotors, which need a very different tuning for produce more power (a new firmware in the motor controllers)

So .. up to 120/130km/h the power limit is 120kw, and I believe there is no way to increase it.

Above 130km/h a traditional chip tuning could increase the power ... but honestly, it is quite pointless.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I'm not clear what the problem is. If the PHEV is cruising and it needs more power, it will use the ICE and battery combined to produce more. Even if the battery shows empty, there's still 2.5-3kWh of energy in the battery. Has the OP ever found he's short of power?

 

[greattestis]

I don't believe there is any traditional chip tuning that can increase the power of our PHEV, especially between 80 to 100km/h

Traditional chip tuning on non turbo engine, produce very little power increase .. possibly ~ +5% power increase ... already in traditional car is quite useless to try to modify the non turbo cars

Anyhow, when the accelerator pedal is floored, our PHEV work in serial mode (until 120/130km/h) .. in serial mode the acceleration power is coming only from the two eMotors, which need a very different tuning for produce more power (a new firmware in the motor controllers)

So .. up to 120/130km/h the power limit is 120kw, and I believe there is no way to increase it.

Above 130km/h a traditional chip tuning could increase the power ... but honestly, it is quite pointless.

But the PHEV ICE is a turbo-charged engine? A 2liter Turbo-charged engine can provide massive amount of power nowadays, except PHEVs only does 89KWs.

I'm not clear what the problem is. If the PHEV is cruising and it needs more power, it will use the ICE and battery combined to produce more. Even if the battery shows empty, there's still 2.5-3kWh of energy in the battery. Has the OP ever found he's short of power?

Do you mean short of charge? I don't have that situation.

After more investigation, it would appear that my "need" would be to have parallel hybrid mode at lower speeds. According to the documentation I linked previously, it appears to only kick in after 120 km/h?

-GT

 

[HHL]

I don't believe there is any traditional chip tuning that can increase the power of our PHEV, especially between 80 to 100km/h

Traditional chip tuning on non turbo engine, produce very little power increase .. possibly ~ +5% power increase ... already in traditional car is quite useless to try to modify the non turbo cars

Anyhow, when the accelerator pedal is floored, our PHEV work in serial mode (until 120/130km/h) .. in serial mode the acceleration power is coming only from the two eMotors, which need a very different tuning for produce more power (a new firmware in the motor controllers)

So .. up to 120/130km/h the power limit is 120kw, and I believe there is no way to increase it.

Above 130km/h a traditional chip tuning could increase the power ... but honestly, it is quite pointless.

But the PHEV ICE is a turbo-charged engine? A 2liter Turbo-charged engine can provide massive amount of power nowadays, except PHEVs only does 89KWs.

I'm not clear what the problem is. If the PHEV is cruising and it needs more power, it will use the ICE and battery combined to produce more. Even if the battery shows empty, there's still 2.5-3kWh of energy in the battery. Has the OP ever found he's short of power?

Do you mean short of charge? I don't have that situation.

After more investigation, it would appear that my "need" would be to have parallel hybrid mode at lower speeds. According to the documentation I linked previously, it appears to only kick in after 120 km/h?

-GT

That is not correct. Parallel mode can happen at speeds over 65 km/h, although sometimes the car stays in serial mode at much higher speeds and I haven't quite worked out why.

 

[anko]

Whether chip-tuning the ICE will make much of a difference is unknown, as it is not clear if the power management of the car is able to adapt to the different power balance between the components. I seem to recall that VTech tried it once, years ago.

He changed the air filter box allowing a bigger half-open filter. He modified the BMU so the battery would release more power. Whether he also change the ECU of the ICE, I am not sure. BTW: The black car in the video above IS his / that car.

 

[anko]

But the PHEV ICE is a turbo-charged engine? A 2liter Turbo-charged engine can provide massive amount of power nowadays, except PHEVs only does 89KWs.

No, it is not.

 

[elm70]

That is not correct. Parallel mode can happen at speeds over 65 km/h, although sometimes the car stays in serial mode at much higher speeds and I haven't quite worked out why.

Not sure what is not correct.

Our PHEV does not have turbo ... it is a 2L (2.4L in newest model) aspirated
The 2.0L engine block is derived from a Mitsubishi turbo engine, but in the PHEV the turbo is not present.

Yes, Parallel mode can happen also as speed as low as 65km/h ... but in case of max acceleration (with the foot flooring the gas pedal), then the PHEV switch into serial mode (unless the speed is above 130km/h) ... only in serial mode the max 120kw power could be all time available, since at low speed in parallel mode the ICE will spin at low RPM and it will not be able to provide 60kw . while in serial mode the ICE can spin at high RPM and power the generator for provide 60kw, which will be added to the 60kw from the battery.

Any ICE power tuning, will only cause to have a marginal better acceleration only in speed in excess of 130km/h ... so .. quite pointless in my book

The only way to get more acceleration at low speed , it would require some firmware changes in the electric speed controllers of the two eMotor, combined with other tricks for bring more electric power to the two motors (this apparently it is an easy modification to update the firmware for get more power from the battery, VTech did this already, up to 110kw, from 60kw) ... but to tune the speed controller for get more power from the eMotor .. it is in theory possible, but I don't believe there is ""DIY" guy with enough specific knowledge for do it ... I know that in the RC Model world, there are open source firmware for AC 3 phases brushless motors (same motor as used in our PHEV), it is not really a rocket science , and yes, it is possible to tune some parameters for get more power at the cost of less efficiency ... still , I'm not sure anybody has access to the eMotor controller firmware and the tools for update it

 

[anko]

That is not correct. Parallel mode can happen at speeds over 65 km/h, although sometimes the car stays in serial mode at much higher speeds and I haven't quite worked out why.

Normal bandwidths are approx.:
EV mode: 0 - 125 km/h
Serial hybrid mode: 0 - 125 km/h
Parallel hybrid mode: 65 - 125 km/h

 

[elm70]

That is not correct. Parallel mode can happen at speeds over 65 km/h, although sometimes the car stays in serial mode at much higher speeds and I haven't quite worked out why.

Normal bandwidths are approx.:
EV mode: 0 - 125 km/h
Serial hybrid mode: 0 - 125 km/h
Parallel hybrid mode: 65 - 125 km/h

What happen above 125km/h :?: :mrgreen:

Definitely parallel happen up to 170km/h (range is 65 to 170km/h)
EV mode can't go over 125km/h (by design, not for any other reason, with the only 60kw from the battery it is possible to go faster then 125km/h in some conditions, but the firmware switch on the ICE above 125km/h .. just for stress the poor PHEV driver)

About serial mode, it might be able to stay up to 130/140km/h .. so the range is possibly 0 to 140km/h

 

[anko]

What happen above 125km/h :?: :mrgreen:

Of course you are right. Slip of the pen, so to speak. Parallel mode is 65 km/h up to Vmax.

EV mode can't go over 125km/h (by design, not for any other reason, with the only 60kw from the battery it is possible to go faster then 125km/h in some conditions, but the firmware switch on the ICE above 125km/h .. just for stress the poor PHEV driver)

I can't feel sorry for PHEV drivers insisting on driving faster than 125 km/h :lol:

About serial mode, it might be able to stay up to 130/140km/h .. so the range is possibly 0 to 140km/h

But it would not make sense. At 125 km/h, the output of the ICE in parallel mode is equal to the max output of the generator (after losses): 60 kW. Staying in serial mode only introduces unnecessary losses.

 

[greattestis]

But the PHEV ICE is a turbo-charged engine? A 2liter Turbo-charged engine can provide massive amount of power nowadays, except PHEVs only does 89KWs.

No, it is not.

I can't understand where this thought came to my head.. I could have sworn it is a 2.0l Turbo engine.. :lol: My bad!

 

[greattestis]

Hi all,

Okay, some new stuff learned in this conversation, thanks!

Unfortunately I'm even more confused now.. Are we really getting different power combinations depending how fast we are going?

According to Mitsubishi official documentation (linked earlier) this is the case. Below 120 km/h we should not get ICE + electric motors on drivetrain. The ICE only comes alive to push power to the battery and electric motors since the battery (apparently?) cannot give out more than 60kW of power?

So Maximum power before 120km/h is 60kW+60kW?
And after 120km/h (When ICE snaps for drivetrain) we get 89kW + 60kW?

Exception being when we "floor" the pedal?

-GT

 

[anko]

From 0 to (approx.) 58 km/h, you get 0 to 120 kW max. Almost liniair. This is because that is what you get with max torque on both motors.

At 58 km/h you are using max available electric power, so if you go any faster power will stay the same but torque will go down.

So, between 58 and 125 km/h you get 120 kW max.

From 125 to 170 km/h, you get 120 - 149 kW max. Sort of liniair. Because the ICE needs max revs to produce max power.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

According to Mitsubishi official documentation (linked earlier) this is the case. Below 120 km/h we should not get ICE + electric motors on drivetrain. The ICE only comes alive to push power to the battery and electric motors since the battery (apparently?) cannot give out more than 60kW of power?

I'm not sure what this "official documentation" is, but what you're saying is incorrect. Maybe you could include a link or some scans. The ICE can (and does!) drive the front wheels in parallel mode from around 40mph / 65kph. The PHEV can stay in EV mode to 70mph / 125kph, and it can operate in series mode with both battery and ICE operating to the same speed. So the ICE can "come alive" from 0mph to VMax