Identifying CanBus parameters

[elm70]

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I also discovered if you remove Fuse 14 & 15 you can drive in full EV mode as the petrol motor cannot start. It will run for 30sec in it's prime stage but not start or try again. If like me you were thinking of putting a switch in these fuses once there back in you have to cycle the ignition for the petrol engine to start again. Sorry i know there are many question based around this but these were my preliminary findings.

Nice hacking info .. much appreciated

I did try the fuse pull removal (can't recall which, but it was the one for the fuel pomp) ... what I did notice back then was:

1- It did work fine on 1st usage ... ICE try to start, get an error on dash .. and run in EV mode without problem.
2 - On next, or one of the following start up, while keeping off he fuse ... the ICE try to start up all the time ... I could drive fine in EV mode ... but not nice to have a engine that try to start and fail every second
3 - After put back the fuse ... for some reason the car did want to consume all the fuel due to the "old fuel" .. problem solved by disconnecting the battery

So ... while driving in EV mode is nice without the fuse on ... I'm wondering if removing both the fuse not only the fuel pump is disabled, but as well the attempt to start the engine.

Ideally .. it would be nice to send the error code that ICE has problem .. and keeping the fuse in place

I was also thinking to add a switch instead of a fuse .. I got a simple 12v switch with 433Mhz controller ... but ... I don't know where to source 12v inside the fuse box (but maybe I did not search much on it)

It would be nice to have some OBD2 codes which could be send to the PHEV for disable the ICE to start and maybe remap some battery parameters too

 

[Harald]

Nice hacking info .. much appreciated

Fully agree. I would enjoy it, if this would allow a "pure EV" position.

 

[Roy13]

There's only 2 foreseeable ways I can see too make pure EV mode. Neither are simple.
1: As discuss earlier in this thread, interfacing the canbus between the generator & ECU. Filter out the signal.
2: Similar to the rather expensive V-tech box (well it is once converted to Aussie dollars) an Arduino on the throttle trim pod. Sampling the input & outputting a signal controlled by rate of rise.
There's 2 problems with this one there's 2 trim pods on the throttle and this doesn't stop the engine coming on when your only 1km from home & the car thinks it's flat.

 

[anko]

There's 2 problems with this one there's 2 trim pods on the throttle

I think one is for throttle position and one for throttle speed. You can set the latter to 0.

... and this doesn't stop the engine coming on when your only 1km from home & the car thinks it's flat.

Crossed my mind many times. Basically every time when the ICE first started when I could already see my driveway or the office building I am working in. Now, you could try to use up a bit of the safety buffer but that will only move the issue 2 or 3 km further down the road. And then you have the same issue again. Where does that end? With a dead battery?

 

[Roy13]

Alright Anko i have not forgotten about your question on canbus ID 287.
I've found when parked that item G sits at 0x00 until you push the charge button and the generator comes on G changes to 0x04.
It does not return to 0x00 until the engine has switched off.
When driving around the yard 0x00 engine off idling, 0x03 when driving in EV mode, 0x07 when moving and engine on under acceleration (below 70kph), 0x04 when coming to a stop and idling again, then 0x00 once engine stops again.

 

[anko]

Alright Anko i have not forgotten about your question on canbus ID 287.

I had Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Zuikkis]

There's only 2 foreseeable ways I can see too make pure EV mode. Neither are simple.
1: As discuss earlier in this thread, interfacing the canbus between the generator & ECU. Filter out the signal.
2: Similar to the rather expensive V-tech box (well it is once converted to Aussie dollars) an Arduino on the throttle trim pod. Sampling the input & outputting a signal controlled by rate of rise.
There's 2 problems with this one there's 2 trim pods on the throttle and this doesn't stop the engine coming on when your only 1km from home & the car thinks it's flat.

Hi!

Returning to old subject. I'm really interested in this "full EV" mode. I do have the V-Tech PHEVbox, which does take care of the throttle reasonably nicely. But the provided ICEHeaterStop does not really work in cold weather, I ended up removing it. Outside temperature affects the ICE starting, it is not enough to fool the inside temp as ICEheaterstop is doing...

Have you or Anko seen any can messages from the A/C unit, how does it command the ICE to start? Would be perfect if that could be filtered out. Then you could have A/C set to +22C or whatever and electric heater heating at 100%, without ICE starting..

 

[anko]

There is PHEV FB page, where somebody has posted how he added a 2000 Ohm resistor to the temp sensor in the front grill of the car, and that seemed to do the trick for him.

Try: https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlanderphev/search/?query=resistor&epa=FILTERS&filters=eyJycF9jaHJvbm9fc29ydCI6IntcIm5hbWVcIjpcImNocm9ub3NvcnRcIixcImFyZ3NcIjpcIlwifSJ9

 

[Zuikkis]

There is PHEV FB page, where somebody has posted how he added a 2000 Ohm resistor to the temp sensor in the front grill of the car, and that seemed to do the trick for him.

Try: https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlanderphev/search/?query=resistor&epa=FILTERS&filters=eyJycF9jaHJvbm9fc29ydCI6IntcIm5hbWVcIjpcImNocm9ub3NvcnRcIixcImFyZ3NcIjpcIlwifSJ9

That's a private group and I don't even have a Facebook account. Can you maybe screenshot or copypaste the relevant bits?

But that sounds promising! But doesn't it also make the dashboard thermometer show wrong readings?

I assume he's using ICEHeaterStop too?

ICEHeaterStop is fine for >+5C ambient temperatures, but doesn't work if it's colder than that. The colder it gets, the lower is the maximum aircon setting that can be used reliably. If interior is preheated to really hot (over 20C?) ICE does not start, but +13C faked by ICEHeaterStop certainly is not high enough.

 

[Zuikkis]

Here's the ambient temperature sensor's resistance curve.

I think I'll try with some 2000-3000ohm resistor in place of the original sensor.. Great if that fixes it.

If i get any progress I'll start another thread, no one will find these from here.

 

[OutlandishPanda]

Thanks for the wealth of information shared here. I'm building an EV using many salvaged Outlander PHEV parts as they are all CAN, good value and not so complicated to control, plus so much is shared here and elsewhere. I'm trying to get the A/C compressor to work.

Has anyone worked out the SUB CAN-C messages to and from the Outlander A/C compressor? I did find the OBD PID structure thanks to anko, but I can't use this as the rest of the network is missing that processes these requests. I just have the bare compressor and need the real CAN messages and the formulae to control and monitor it.

anko, I read you said you hadn't found the A/C messages "yet". Did you ever get to that?

Very grateful for any info anyone has on this. Thanks very much.

 

[littlescrote]

OutlandishPanda - your project sounds very interesting!

Is it a Panda 4x4 with Outlander running gear? That would be great.

Sorry, no data to help you on your question, but I do have CAN tools available if you don't get your answer elsewhere, but I've very little spare time to make the measurements at the moment (although it is a subject that interests me as a geek).

 

[OutlandishPanda]

Thanks - I'd have liked to have done a 4x4 Panda as I really like that little car, but very limited room for batteries and they are expensive cars! So, no, its just a fairly plain FWD 2005 Panda conversion for a local runabout ~25 miles range.

The only novel part is I've set myself a fixed budget of £3250 all in, including the car (got that for £410). So far I'm just about on track - eBay is a good friend with these challenges!

If you do feel like making a capture on the SUB CAN-C bus sometime, this is what I was thinking:

Noting time at each step:
>Start logging and stopwatch
>Power car with A/C off
>Turn on A/C low
>Leave for 2 mins, then A/C on full
>Leave 2 mins then A/C off
>Leave for 5 mins or until A/C pump goes off (it will have some lag time for safe shut down I guess)
>Turn car off
>Stop logging.

What do you think? Might be too much data...

I may have a chance to log a car on our fleet at work if we still have it.

Thanks for your interest!

 

[amiralnar]

Hi everyone!

I made mysef can gate device based on arduino for suppressing ICE start command from A/C ECU.
View attachment Фото платы.png

The command from A/C ECU is here in byte B:

canID 0x185 8 08 04 20 00 00 00 00 00

When A/C ECU needs to turn on ICE it set B to 04.
When ICE reaches 80 degree temp then AC/ECU set B to 00 and ICE stops.

So my device owerwrite this byte to 00 always and ICE has no start for heating.

 

[OutlandishPanda]

Hi Amiralnar, that looks great. Very clever! May I ask if you have taken any logs of the A/C compressor operation? I'm trying to locate the CAN IDs for the compressor so I can use it in an EV I'm building. Any help would be much appreciated! The CAN bus it is on is here:

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_iii/online/Service_Manual_2013/img/90/HEU12E07AC00ENG.pdf

This seems to show it on the same CAN bus as the PHEV-ECU, BMU and PDU. It refers to it being on the EV-CAN bus. Maybe your system is on a different bus connected to the engine or HVAC?

If you have any information at all, I would be very grateful. A log with the car on, with A/C off, and then you turn the A/C on and then off again after a few mins would be so very helpful.

Thank you and good luck with your projects!

 

[littlescrote]

Hi everyone!

I made mysef can gate device based on arduino for suppressing ICE start command from A/C ECU.

Very good idea, good work, and thanks for sharing. This is a good way of preventing that ICE startup, but leaving it free to start when needed, e.g. sudden acceleration, which you lose from other methods that I've seen (e.g. bypassing Start relay)

 

[highvoltagebeetle]

Anyone have a can bus log with the electric heater? I have one to use in my EV Beetle to keep me warm, hopefully.
0x398 is broadcast by the heater, byte 3 contains water temperature with the looks of it. I'm not sure what message is required to get it to heat up.