Idea to stop ICE from starting when cold

[highvoltagebeetle]

Thanks for the responses, was worth a shot. We'll have to explore other avenues to get a log or hope fuzzing picks up the correct message.

 

[amiralnar]

That is awesome ! Would you share with this project ? (arduino program , schemes ?)

Looks like it has two MCP2515 , it is placed on input of AC driver and CAN ( in the middle ) ,and simply replace 04 to 00 since it apear ?

Hi!

Yes, it is placed in the middle of AC/ECU and ETACS CAN bus.

I posted report here: https://www.drive2.com/l/584248319358833834/
There is simple schematics, and link to GitHub arduino project.

 

[highvoltagebeetle]

Nice work, there's loads of use cases for a can man in the middle. I've seen them used for battery upgrades, inverter and charger swaps.

 

[MiG25]

Hi!

Yes, it is placed in the middle of AC/ECU and ETACS CAN bus.

I posted report here: https://www.drive2.com/l/584248319358833834/
There is simple schematics, and link to GitHub arduino project.

Thank you ! Pars ordered , arduino had and it is already programmed

Some questions:
- Where exacly this C-205 plug is connected ? Is it enough to remove pannel with Aircon /radio ?
- Is in this plug also +12V source sutable to power step/down converter for arduino ? ( would be ok , when A/C-ECU get's power ,also this device get it...
- O can see a jumper J1 on MCP2515 , shold be shortcuted ?

 

[arber333]

Sorry for not responding. I have been busy with assembling my outlander system in my workshop.
I have here an inverter + rear motor that i intend to use for traction. Also i have a charger with DCDC converter and heater.
All of the above is already known with the exception of heater..
My experience with CAN bus snooping https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/tag/can-bus/

I cant say where to connect to the heater, because i have those components on my workshop floor, not in a car. What i know is that all of the componentr require 0x285 ID signal which is propagated from the battery as a sort of ALIVE msg. Without it nothing works. So all of them must be on the same bus.
Now heater is located near the rear inverter and charger in the back. I think the easiest way to spy its messages would be to probe two needles from the back of the 4pin connector through the seal of the CAN bus wires - twisted pair. The lightest coloured wire is CAN low and darkest is CAN high. Top two pins are 12V(1) and GND(2) and other two CANh(3) and CANl(4). That way nothing would be damaged.
I provided wiring schematic in the post here: https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31311#p31311

tnx

Arber

 

[amiralnar]

Thank you ! Pars ordered , arduino had and it is already programmed

Some questions:
- Where exacly this C-205 plug is connected ? Is it enough to remove pannel with Aircon /radio ?
- Is in this plug also +12V source sutable to power step/down converter for arduino ? ( would be ok , when A/C-ECU get's power ,also this device get it...
- O can see a jumper J1 on MCP2515 , shold be shortcuted ?

1. Yes, it's enough to remove aircon pannel. C-205 connected directly to AC/ECU. You can see it in the photo attached to report on drive2 site.
2. Yes, this plug also +12V source sutable to power step/down converter. Use the wire no 20. It's the blue one. It's name is IG1. Also if you have electric heater and you manage it by WiFi then you should add two more relays, for normal connecting the CAN wire break when power is off. This is nesessary for transmitting standard CAN command to preheat AC/ECU with WiFi.
Check the schematics http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_iii/online/Service_Manual_2013/img/90/HEU12E07AC00ENG.pdf
3. By normal schematics you should NOT add jumper on ETACS side because the resistors are installed in ETACS and METER COMBINATOIN. And you should ADD the jumper to AC/ECU side. But in fact you will be able to set them both and it will works normal or take off them both and it also will works normal. Try any option if there wold be problems with stability.

 

[MiG25]

2. Yes, this plug also +12V source sutable to power step/down converter. Use the wire no 20. It's the blue one. It's name is IG1. Also if you have electric heater and you manage it by WiFi then you should add two more relays, for normal connecting the CAN wire break when power is off. This is nesessary for transmitting standard CAN command to preheat AC/ECU with WiFi.
Check the schematics http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_iii/online/Service_Manual_2013/img/90/HEU12E07AC00ENG.pdf

I already munted it , but had some issues from booth sides , on AC side there where random on/off ,and at the same time fan stoping for a while , and from vehicle i got random errors on dashboard (like DPF , steering wheel , low engine oil , also some radio mutning). Today i exchanged arduino to new , hope that was the issue.

Back to the electric heater , yes i found out that this can be a problem. Is there nearby some wire , where +12v apear also when this remote electric heater will be on ?( not to use relays , but just to tun on this module as well).

 

[amiralnar]

I already munted it , but had some issues from booth sides , on AC side there where random on/off ,and at the same time fan stoping for a while , and from vehicle i got random errors on dashboard (like DPF , steering wheel , low engine oil , also some radio mutning). Today i exchanged arduino to new , hope that was the issue.

Back to the electric heater , yes i found out that this can be a problem. Is there nearby some wire , where +12v apear also when this remote electric heater will be on ?( not to use relays , but just to tun on this module as well).

Ok. Nice try.
1. Ensure you have stable power source for can gate. If the CAN gate resets than it takes about 2 seconds to start retransmit CAN frames again so CAN frames don't get to AC, and it turns off. In this case fan stops of course.
2. This board is compatible with CanHacker project. Install the CanHacker firmware on the MCU and then connect to it via notebook and monitor that every CAN channel receives and sends frames correctly: https://github.com/autowp/arduino-canhacker ; Warning! There is an issue with MCP oscillator frequency. Need to setup it to 8 MHz. After you will ensure that CAN layer work properly, you should rebuild the gate firmware according to correct settings. In general, MCU speed is 16 MHz, MCP shield speed is 8 MHz. CAN bus speed is 250 Kbps. SPI clock divider is default or DIV2.
3. When the dashboard shows you random errors (DPF , steering wheel , engine oil , e.t.c) this means that can gate module drops down the whole CAN bus (CAN-Mid-C). This is very abnormal behavior. Like shortcut CAN bus to the ground or something else. In this case dashboard don't get any CAN frame from the car and throw all the errors it has. But if AC still have working sometimes than it means that gate working normal sometimes. Only one type of error on dashboard is acceptable: EV error and nothing else. This means that gate just don't retransmit CAN data from AC to ETACS. For example if gate stuck or power down.
3.1 The another case when you conneced gate in the middle of ETACS and everything else. Like (ETACS) - can_gate - (AC, DASH, MMCS). The connection point should be near the AC. Like (ETACS, DASH, MMCS) - can_gate - (AC)
4. Use the relays is a good choice. There is a brown-red wire comes from EV remote to PHEV ecu. But I suggest you to touch it not.

If You need assistance than You can contact me in the Telegramm @cptn_flint

 

[MiG25]

I exchanged Arduino Nano with ATMega168 to new Nano with ATMega328P , but nothing changed, after a while some random errors and/or AC shutdown for some second.
In program i found digitalRead from pin 2 and 3 ,but acc to scheme there is nothing connected to it. So either these pins should be always low ( so phisically conected to GND ) , so at the end removed from program , or reall shoud be controlled by INT from MCP2515 ?

 

[amiralnar]

I exchanged Arduino Nano with ATMega168 to new Nano with ATMega328P , but nothing changed, after a while some random errors and/or AC shutdown for some second.
In program i found digitalRead from pin 2 and 3 ,but acc to scheme there is nothing connected to it. So either these pins should be always low ( so phisically conected to GND ) , so at the end removed from program , or reall shoud be controlled by INT from MCP2515 ?

Oops. My fault.
Of course pins 2 and 3 must be connected to INT pins on MCP corresponding to CS pins

 

[MiG25]

Yes with INT connected works much better , no issues at all during tests
Please correct scheme , that would save some hours to other

 

[MiG25]

4. Use the relays is a good choice. There is a brown-red wire comes from EV remote to PHEV ecu. But I suggest you to touch it not.

On this blue wire power also apear , when you start heat from Remote Ctrl App , so no need relays , everything is working without.
Problem is only at beginning , but that is becouse ACC ECU is reset becouse of unplugged plugs for it. It needs some time ,or turn off/ on combinations to work ( no idea with one). But after back to live working ok.

By the way , i belive it will be possible to turn on ECO mode with it as default setting, can you help me with it ? I'm gessing ,that the line at the end of void setup() should be aded , something like :
CAN0.sendMsgBuf(0x359, 0, 6, ????);

 

[amiralnar]

On this blue wire power also apear , when you start heat from Remote Ctrl App , so no need relays , everything is working without.
Problem is only at beginning , but that is becouse ACC ECU is reset becouse of unplugged plugs for it. It needs some time ,or turn off/ on combinations to work ( no idea with one). But after back to live working ok.

By the way , i belive it will be possible to turn on ECO mode with it as default setting, can you help me with it ? I'm gessing ,that the line at the end of void setup() should be aded , something like :
CAN0.sendMsgBuf(0x359, 0, 6, ????);

1. Arduino need 1.5 sec to startup firmware fully. Another way is upload firmware without bootloader. Then sturtup takes abuot 0.1 sec.
2. ACC/ECU self calibrating after unplugging plugs. This is normal. Usually if happen only once. I can't understand the problem.
3. CAN status is read only. No way to turn on off ECO via CAN bus. To turn on ECO mode you need to connect the wire from ECO button to arduino via transistor key. Then you need to add code that will virtually press ECO button after car start. But hey, i think you don't need ECO mode anymore!

 

[highvoltagebeetle]

0x188 with 03 50 A2 4D 00 00 00 00 turns on the electric heater in a 2016+ 0x285 is also required (00 00 14 21 90 FE 0C 10 ) but is a general HV status message.

 

[amiralnar]

0x188 with 03 50 A2 4D 00 00 00 00 turns on the electric heater in a 2016+ 0x285 is also required (00 00 14 21 90 FE 0C 10 ) but is a general HV status message.

Congratulations!
How did you get it?
Is it full power to heater? There is 3 steps of power heating. This message should vary depending on desired heating power.

As i think this 188 address goes from AC ECU.

 

[MiG25]

On this blue wire power also apear , when you start heat from Remote Ctrl App , so no need relays , everything is working without.
Problem is only at beginning , but that is becouse ACC ECU is reset becouse of unplugged plugs for it. It needs some time ,or turn off/ on combinations to work ( no idea with one). But after back to live working ok.

By the way , i belive it will be possible to turn on ECO mode with it as default setting, can you help me with it ? I'm gessing ,that the line at the end of void setup() should be aded , something like :
CAN0.sendMsgBuf(0x359, 0, 6, ????);

1. Arduino need 1.5 sec to startup firmware fully. Another way is upload firmware without bootloader. Then sturtup takes abuot 0.1 sec.
2. ACC/ECU self calibrating after unplugging plugs. This is normal. Usually if happen only once. I can't understand the problem.
3. CAN status is read only. No way to turn on off ECO via CAN bus. To turn on ECO mode you need to connect the wire from ECO button to arduino via transistor key. Then you need to add code that will virtually press ECO button after car start. But hey, i think you don't need ECO mode anymore!

Ad.2. It is not a problem. Heater turned on remotely works .
Ad.3 Ok , got it.

Still sometimes get a lot of errors on start sometimes... I have to observe when this is happening .(My wife rapported two times this problem, she tuned off car ,got out ,locked , unlocked and start again , and it was ok).
I simpliied a little bit program (remove serial , added a programable reboot ,if one of CAN's not sturt up correctly) , but this not really helps ( one situation had place later).
I also noticed , that it needs fast reactions. Putting any delay in code gives imidietly this errors, so maybe faster device is needed

 

[highvoltagebeetle]

0x188 with 03 50 A2 4D 00 00 00 00 turns on the electric heater in a 2016+ 0x285 is also required (00 00 14 21 90 FE 0C 10 ) but is a general HV status message.

Congratulations!
How did you get it?
Is it full power to heater? There is 3 steps of power heating. This message should vary depending on desired heating power.

As i think this 188 address goes from AC ECU.

Someone sent me a log from a 2016. There's 4 PTC heaters inside. Not sure what the effect of changing values in the message is as of yet, It draws 13 amps on 220V or so from cold so not far off 3KW


photo host

I've documented it here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Outlander_Water_Heater#Control_Can_Messages there's someone else documenting the older heater there too.
I've started a DBC file (WIP) https://github.com/jamiejones85/DBC-files/blob/master/OutlanderWaterHeater.dbc