Extreme cold and battery

[Redskyblueclouds]

I bought a 2019 PHEV new. It now has ~2k on it. This is the first batch of arctic air of the season with temps around 2 degrees F. I’m wondering if starting the car at such a low temp will damage the battery. It only had 20% charge when I parked it outside a couple of days ago and I do not have a home charger to keep it plugged in to warm the battery. What’s your experience?

 

[michael8554]

Can you not use the portable plug-in EVSE that comes with the car?
Not something I've needed to do in the UK, perhaps it doesn't give enough output at 110V?

 

[STS134]

This is a main drive battery, with a maximum output of 60 kW and a capacity of 12-14 kWh. It's designed to provide enough energy to drive the car. ICE cars may have trouble starting when it's cold because their batteries are weak. They're designed to only provide enough energy to turn the engine long enough to get it going. ICE car starter batteries typically have a capacity of about 0.5-1.0 kWh. In a PHEV, the main drive battery *may* have trouble providing enough energy to drive the car fast and far, but it's not going to have trouble just starting the engine, which is an extremely easy task for a battery of this size. And if the battery is having trouble driving the vehicle, the engine can take over (which is probably what you want anyway when it's extremely cold and you're actually using the waste heat from the ICE for cabin heat).

And when the battery is "empty", with 1 bar on the gauge (which is where the vehicle likes to keep it when it's running in hybrid mode), it actually has a 30% state of charge. If you have 0 bars on the gauge, that's actually a 25% state of charge, and there is a hard lower limit of around 19.3%, which the computer will not let you get below, even under sustained hard acceleration, like climbing hills, unless the vehicle is also low on gas. I believe the limit of emergency reserves (vehicle out of gas) is something like 13-15% state of charge so even then, it should have enough juice to start up the engine once you put gas in the tank.

 

[Redskyblueclouds]

Thanks everyone. The 110V charger works but I don’t have a grounded outdoor electric plug. I’ve asked the landlord to let me pay to install one. Waiting for approval on that. This morning at 10 degrees F, it didn’t hesitate to start, but I did get the “battery too cold” alert when I pressed the EV button, but that resolved after 5 minutes on the ICE.

 

[greendwarf]

Heavy duty weather proof extension cable out the window?

 

[user 4647]

This is a main drive battery, with a maximum output of 60 kW and a capacity of 12-14 kWh. It's designed to provide enough energy to drive the car. ICE cars may have trouble starting when it's cold because their batteries are weak. They're designed to only provide enough energy to turn the engine long enough to get it going. ICE car starter batteries typically have a capacity of about 0.5-1.0 kWh. In a PHEV, the main drive battery *may* have trouble providing enough energy to drive the car fast and far, but it's not going to have trouble just starting the engine, which is an extremely easy task for a battery of this size. And if the battery is having trouble driving the vehicle, the engine can take over (which is probably what you want anyway when it's extremely cold and you're actually using the waste heat from the ICE for cabin heat).

And when the battery is "empty", with 1 bar on the gauge (which is where the vehicle likes to keep it when it's running in hybrid mode), it actually has a 30% state of charge. If you have 0 bars on the gauge, that's actually a 25% state of charge, and there is a hard lower limit of around 19.3%, which the computer will not let you get below, even under sustained hard acceleration, like climbing hills, unless the vehicle is also low on gas. I believe the limit of emergency reserves (vehicle out of gas) is something like 13-15% state of charge so even then, it should have enough juice to start up the engine once you put gas in the tank.

I will have to disagree with that statement. Last month was very cold around here (-28 Celcius) we were at a friend house and the wife went out to start the car to heat it a bit but by mistake didn't press the brake pedal and just started the car by pushing the start button twice. Driving battery was around half. We came out of the house after 10-15 min and everything in the car suddenly stopped working and the car started to have all kind of light appearing in the dash and then suddenly they were all disapearing. Nothing was working anymore everything went dark in the car, we tried to plug the car with the 110v charger but then the car started beeping like crazy. We had the car towed to the dealership to find out that the 12v battery ran out of power and that if you start the car only with 2 press of the start without the brake doesn't make the car using the "driving" battery but only the 12v starting battery and that without power in the 12v starting battery there is nothing you can do with the car. So to my expoerience if you dont have power in your 12v battery nothing works on the car anymore. The driving battery is not used at all to start the ICE and your car will be dead untill power is restored to the 12v battery. The 12v battery is also used to tell the car to go into charging mode according to my dealer so that's why the car was beeping like crazy when I tried to plug it.

 

[Redskyblueclouds]

Very helpful info regarding the 12v starter battery. Thank you.

 

[ChrisMiller]

My understanding is that you can use normal jump leads on the small 12v battery if it's gone 'flat'. I've never had to try it, though

 

[ThudnBlundr]

You can't reach the positive terminal on the battery without disassembling the car. There are instructions in the manual on using a positive terminal and a ground under the bonnet for jump-starting the car. Actually it's powering up the 12V battery enough so that it can run the computers, which then use the drive battery to start the car.

 

[greendwarf]

I will have to disagree with that statement.

Why? What was stated was correct regarding the drive battery and made no reference to the 12v one or circumstances where it has been run flat - a subject that has come up from time to time over the years.

Of course, long term drivers would be well aware of the risk from turning on the ignition in a normal car without starting the engine. In fact. I have often seen drivers struggling to start a car with a weak battery on a cold dark winter's morning with all lights blazing.

 

[user 4647]

my understanding of his post was that the main drive battery help the car start which is not the case as even if the main drive battery still has half power when the 12v battery run flat the car won't start. And I was not in ACC mode on the car, the start button was pressed twice, the start button was blue and everything looked like it was starting the engine. would the button had stayed orange then I would agree it was a stupid mistake but having the button turn blue and everything seem to work from the main battery but still run only on the 12v battey is very misleading.

 

[Craigy]

There’s the normal confusion through this thread. The 12V battery is used to power the electronics and connect the traction battery to the drive system. This is what happens when the car goes into “Ready” mode.
The engine is started from the traction battery, hence the 12v battery is so small.

 

[greendwarf]

my understanding of his post was that the main drive battery help the car start which is not the case as even if the main drive battery still has half power when the 12v battery run flat the car won't start. And I was not in ACC mode on the car, the start button was pressed twice, the start button was blue and everything looked like it was starting the engine. would the button had stayed orange then I would agree it was a stupid mistake but having the button turn blue and everything seem to work from the main battery but still run only on the 12v battey is very misleading.

Well on my 2014 car, if you press the start button twice, as described, the left-hand dial shows a red (i.e. warning) icon of a battery, whereas the right-hand one has a yellow (advisory) icon of an engine. So "everything" did NOT look like it was starting the engine.

So Mitsubishi have tried to tell you what the situation is but, of course, can't help if the driver fails to spot the message! If I remember correctly my previous ICE Toyota showed similar warnings when you turned on the ignition before using the starter.

 

[jaapv]

my understanding of his post was that the main drive battery help the car start which is not the case as even if the main drive battery still has half power when the 12v battery run flat the car won't start. And I was not in ACC mode on the car, the start button was pressed twice, the start button was blue and everything looked like it was starting the engine. would the button had stayed orange then I would agree it was a stupid mistake but having the button turn blue and everything seem to work from the main battery but still run only on the 12v battey is very misleading.

The button does not start the engine - it provides 12V power to the computers that run the car - if there is no power the computers wont boot up and the car will not be activated, regardless of the amount of energy stored in the main battery.

 

[user 4647]

Well on my 2014 car, if you press the start button twice, as described, the left-hand dial shows a red (i.e. warning) icon of a battery, whereas the right-hand one has a yellow (advisory) icon of an engine. So "everything" did NOT look like it was starting the engine.

So Mitsubishi have tried to tell you what the situation is but, of course, can't help if the driver fails to spot the message! If I remember correctly my previous ICE Toyota showed similar warnings when you turned on the ignition before using the starter.

on my 2019 PHEV if you press the start button twice everything look similar to the car beeing started no warning light anywhere and the start button turn blue.

 

[user 4647]

my understanding of his post was that the main drive battery help the car start which is not the case as even if the main drive battery still has half power when the 12v battery run flat the car won't start. And I was not in ACC mode on the car, the start button was pressed twice, the start button was blue and everything looked like it was starting the engine. would the button had stayed orange then I would agree it was a stupid mistake but having the button turn blue and everything seem to work from the main battery but still run only on the 12v battey is very misleading.

The button does not start the engine - it provides 12V power to the computers that run the car - if there is no power the computers wont boot up and the car will not be activated, regardless of the amount of energy stored in the main battery.

Thanks for the clarification that was not explained to me like that by the dealer.

 

[greendwarf]

Well on my 2014 car, if you press the start button twice, as described, the left-hand dial shows a red (i.e. warning) icon of a battery, whereas the right-hand one has a yellow (advisory) icon of an engine. So "everything" did NOT look like it was starting the engine.

So Mitsubishi have tried to tell you what the situation is but, of course, can't help if the driver fails to spot the message! If I remember correctly my previous ICE Toyota showed similar warnings when you turned on the ignition before using the starter.

on my 2019 PHEV if you press the start button twice everything look similar to the car beeing started no warning light anywhere and the start button turn blue.

I find it hard to believe North American cars are configured so differently to those in UK. If the start is pressed twice ("ON") it lights blue AND the dash shows warning lights - and is, in effect the ignition on, but NOT started. With the brake pressed the light on the start button GOES OUT, as do the warning lights. The manual warns you that you will flatten the 12v battery if you leave the car in "ON" without staring it. So you then get the green Ready sign in the left-hand dial. Therefore, Mitsu DO warn users both with the display AND in the manual.

If this sequence doesn't happen then there is something wrong with the car

 

[moedjo]

I am a fairly new owner of a PHEV as well, got a MY2019.

I have not noticed a difference yet on the outside temperature in regards to starting the outlander. I have always been able to put it into EV mode, even when it is below freezing outside. I always leave it "plugged in " over night, so I have a full charge in the morning, but I have also done this successfully with about the main battery almost empty.

One thing that irks me a little bit is that I have to manually engage the EV mode immediately after I start the car, otherwise the ICE kicks in.

I would like to add two things to this thread, since we are on the topic of Batteries.

1. You can not jump start another car from the PHEV. This is probably known to most PHEV users, but it came as a surprise to me...

2. On recommendations from other PHEV users on this forum, I have purchased an external battery pack that can output 12V. It is intended for jump-starting ICE cars, but it is also (supposedly) able to power on the small accessory battery on the PHEV so that the car can be started in case the accessory battery goes flat.. (I keep this external battery pack in the glove box) like the OP had mentioned, in the case where the car is "improperly" started (no break pedal pushed). I call this my "wife proof" external starter kit

 

[jaapv]

Or not pushed enough, at least on my car.

 

[Ridfenfun]

. I call this my "wife proof" external starter kit [/quote]

Can I borrow that quote? I need it as well as she's already done exactly this on our 2019. Got into the car, supposedly started it, but then had a long telecon while still parked, ie hadn't moved. Killed it.
Seriously, I"d not seen this info before, so had no ideal. I like the idea of a the battery boost in the glove box. Where would you boost if you can't get to the 12V battery posts.