Economy

[Pberger]

I have an 86 mile commute to work (each way) I can't access a charging point at work but pass the A1 services on the M25. Do people recommend running the Outlander (its a new GX4HS) in battery charging mode, or would I lose too much fuel economy.

I used about twenty pounds worth of petrol today, leaving home with a full charge, and charging on the way home at the A1 services on the M25. I have to say so far I am massively unimpressed with the car, it is nowhere near as cheap to run on long journeys as my previous car, a Vauxhall Insignia, even when driving considerably more slowly.

 

[maby]

nothing you do is going to make a lot of difference, I'm afraid. You are doing a 170 mile round trip and 130 of those miles are going to be done driving a large, heavy, 2 litre petrol SUV - that is not an economical beast. My pattern of use is similar and I follow the strategy of keeping the car in Save mode until I'm close to my destination (or next charge) in order to ensure that there is plenty of charge in the battery to give me that electric boost if I need the acceleration. I have a lifetime (about 18 months) average of about 43mpg which is not bad for the size and style of vehicle. It was bought to take the strain off our aging 4 litre Landcruiser and 43mpg is pretty good in comparison.

 

[rennie]

50 mile trip to Manchester today on A roads - lots of 30mph/40mph zones with usual traffic hold up's etc and 55MPG
Way back came over Cat and Fiddel plenty of hills etc and still got 45MPG
Left with no charge in the battery when I left so the car was left to sort it out and I think it did excellent.

Just add that this car is a pleasure to drive in the traffic jams! :lol:

 

[SolarBoy]

Don't be pressing battery charging mode, as the poster said above, press save when you are on the motorway, your intention is it make it home with an totally flat battery to then charge up overnight.

What is the average MPG is displayed on the MMCS? There are two modes, Auto and Manual on the MPG screen, we need the Manual figure.

 

[anko]

Don't be pressing battery charging mode, as the poster said above, press save when you are on the motorway.

Why this advice, if I may ask? I don't see why Charge mode should be any worse than save mode.

 

[greendwarf]

Don't be pressing battery charging mode, as the poster said above, press save when you are on the motorway.

Why this advice, if I may ask? I don't see why Charge mode should be any worse than save mode.

Fair point but we don't know how much of this journey is high speed and how much slow. If his commute takes him into London or along the very, very slow stretches of the M25 then it might be useful to charge up en route to maximise EV driving but if a more "normal" pattern of short slow sections at either end then using Save when driving faster would probably be the most economical strategy overall. The other point is, of course, the faster he drives the less top-up Charge gives him, anyway.

His real problem is that this is the wrong car for him, if Economy was his aim

 

[jaapv]

That is right, the ideal commute is max 40 Km with a charge at either end.
For this use a modern Diesel car would be far more effective. Or a BMW i3, or a Tesla.

 

[SolarBoy]

That is right, the ideal commute is max 40 Km with a charge at either end.
For this use a modern Diesel car would be far more effective. Or a BMW i3, or a Tesla.

The OP can't be alone in seeing the wonderful MPG figures shown in big numbers on the Mitsubishi website/brochures and then being surprised/disappointed by the actual MPG on a long journey.

The marketing information does allude that 157mpg isn't achievable on longer journeys, but the information isn't as clear as it possible could be...

I got help and advice through this forum before taking the plunge, and I understand the MPG on a long journey isn't great, but most of mine are short journeys it's not an issue.

 

[maby]

That is right, the ideal commute is max 40 Km with a charge at either end.
For this use a modern Diesel car would be far more effective. Or a BMW i3, or a Tesla.

The OP can't be alone in seeing the wonderful MPG figures shown in big numbers on the Mitsubishi website/brochures and then being surprised/disappointed by the actual MPG on a long journey.

The marketing information does allude that 157mpg isn't achievable on longer journeys, but the information isn't as clear as it possibleof mine are short journeys it's not an issue. could be...

I got help and advice through this forum before taking the plunge, and I understand the MPG on a long journey isn't great, but most

It is a real problem with hybrids. We all know that the quoted performance on any car is difficult, if not impossible, to achieve in real life, but the difference tends to be ten or 20 percent. In the case of a plugin hybrid, the spread in performance can be 200, 300, even 400% and someone with no experience of the technology is unlikely to understand this.

 

[discorduk]

The OP can't be alone in seeing the wonderful MPG figures shown in big numbers on the Mitsubishi website/brochures and then being surprised/disappointed by the actual MPG on a long journey.

I would have thought that it was reasonably obvious that the headline figure is complete nonsense, its just too fantastically high, and a quick examination of the figures in the brochure tell a lot of the story.

Fuel Consumption (NEDC): lts/100km (mpg)
Full Charge: 0
Minimum Charge: 5.8 (48.7)
Weighted Average: 1.9 (148.5)

Okay so full charge is obvious, drive gently and you never leave EV.

The weighted average is the suspect one, a quick glance through the NEDC spec says it will total about 11km during the test, well within the capacity for the battery, and the max speed is 120 km/h, recognise that number? you should, its the max speed in series hybrid mode. coincidence? i dont think so.

The only useful number for driving any kind of distance is the 'Minimum Charge' figure, which is a plausible sounding 48.7 mpg, now from experience I take these economy figures with a pinch of salt, but so far in this car i have found my figures to be a lot further from the advertised one than in any other i've had.

 

[SolarBoy]

The OP can't be alone in seeing the wonderful MPG figures shown in big numbers on the Mitsubishi website/brochures and then being surprised/disappointed by the actual MPG on a long journey.

I would have thought that it was reasonably obvious that the headline figure is complete nonsense, its just too fantastically high, and a quick examination of the figures in the brochure tell a lot of the story.

Fuel Consumption (NEDC): lts/100km (mpg)
Full Charge: 0
Minimum Charge: 5.8 (48.7)
Weighted Average: 1.9 (148.5)

Okay so full charge is obvious, drive gently and you never leave EV.

The weighted average is the suspect one, a quick glance through the NEDC spec says it will total about 11km during the test, well within the capacity for the battery, and the max speed is 120 km/h, recognise that number? you should, its the max speed in series hybrid mode. coincidence? i dont think so.

The only useful number for driving any kind of distance is the 'Minimum Charge' figure, which is a plausible sounding 48.7 mpg, now from experience I take these economy figures with a pinch of salt, but so far in this car i have found my figures to be a lot further from the advertised one than in any other i've had.

Thanks discorduk, I have just found those figures on the brochure ... on the back of the fold out 6 pages, in a small, condensed, grey, font. :lol:

 

[geoffshep69]

Surely in this day and age everyone knows that you don’t actually get in practice what the marketing blurb says you will get ? The only purpose of the official test figures is to allow you to compare different vehicles, so that one which has a claimed combined figure of 45mpg is less economical than one with a claimed 65mpg. In reality, the true figures will not be 45 or 65, but the second car should, all things being equal, still deliver a significantly higher mpg.

Appreciate that hybrids add another confusion into the mix, but to be honest I don’t think its especially difficult to form a reasonable view of what you might get based on your usual driving pattern. Browsing the internet, speaking to a dealer, or even reading the brochure and realising that the maximum EV range is only c.32 miles would very quickly tell you that you are not going to achieve 156mpg driving up and down the motorway for 200 miles a day. There is actually an FAQ on the PHEV internet page which asks "what mpg will I get if I am mainly driving on the motorway" – whilst the answer does not quote a specific figure its pretty clear that the maximum you can do in EV mode is 32 miles, and that anything beyond that will be done using the petrol engine.

Maybe I’m just over cautious, but generally before I buy something (or commit to a lease deal in my case) I do a bit of research to make sure I am buying the right thing for me. I do that when I’m spending £100, never mind £40k on a brand new car !!

 

[maby]

Surely in this day and age everyone knows that you don’t actually get in practice what the marketing blurb says you will get ? The only purpose of the official test figures is to allow you to compare different vehicles, so that one which has a claimed combined figure of 45mpg is less economical than one with a claimed 65mpg. In reality, the true figures will not be 45 or 65, but the second car should, all things being equal, still deliver a significantly higher mpg.

Appreciate that hybrids add another confusion into the mix, but to be honest I don’t think its especially difficult to form a reasonable view of what you might get based on your usual driving pattern. Browsing the internet, speaking to a dealer, or even reading the brochure and realising that the maximum EV range is only c.32 miles would very quickly tell you that you are not going to achieve 156mpg driving up and down the motorway for 200 miles a day. There is actually an FAQ on the PHEV internet page which asks "what mpg will I get if I am mainly driving on the motorway" – whilst the answer does not quote a specific figure its pretty clear that the maximum you can do in EV mode is 32 miles, and that anything beyond that will be done using the petrol engine.

Maybe I’m just over cautious, but generally before I buy something (or commit to a lease deal in my case) I do a bit of research to make sure I am buying the right thing for me. I do that when I’m spending £100, never mind £40k on a brand new car !!

I think you may be overestimating the mathematical capabilities of the average man in the street! I'm an ex-programmer and now IT salesman - I have a lot of experience of mathematical modelling. Before we bought the PHEV, I created a model in Excel based on all the information published by Mitsubishi and plugged in the data for my normal pattern of usage. I got a predicted running cost out of it which is still accurate to within 10% after more than 18 months of use.

By the standards of the mathematical models that we build to help us to estimate the running costs for major government systems, it was pretty simple, but still well beyond the capabilities of the average man in the street, I would suggest. The overall running cost is quite sensitive to some of the parameters and quite small variations can make a big difference to the figure that comes out.

 

[geoffshep69]

Surely in this day and age everyone knows that you don’t actually get in practice what the marketing blurb says you will get ? The only purpose of the official test figures is to allow you to compare different vehicles, so that one which has a claimed combined figure of 45mpg is less economical than one with a claimed 65mpg. In reality, the true figures will not be 45 or 65, but the second car should, all things being equal, still deliver a significantly higher mpg.

Appreciate that hybrids add another confusion into the mix, but to be honest I don’t think its especially difficult to form a reasonable view of what you might get based on your usual driving pattern. Browsing the internet, speaking to a dealer, or even reading the brochure and realising that the maximum EV range is only c.32 miles would very quickly tell you that you are not going to achieve 156mpg driving up and down the motorway for 200 miles a day. There is actually an FAQ on the PHEV internet page which asks "what mpg will I get if I am mainly driving on the motorway" – whilst the answer does not quote a specific figure its pretty clear that the maximum you can do in EV mode is 32 miles, and that anything beyond that will be done using the petrol engine.

Maybe I’m just over cautious, but generally before I buy something (or commit to a lease deal in my case) I do a bit of research to make sure I am buying the right thing for me. I do that when I’m spending £100, never mind £40k on a brand new car !!

I think you may be overestimating the mathematical capabilities of the average man in the street! I'm an ex-programmer and now IT salesman - I have a lot of experience of mathematical modelling. Before we bought the PHEV, I created a model in Excel based on all the information published by Mitsubishi and plugged in the data for my normal pattern of usage. I got a predicted running cost out of it which is still accurate to within 10% after more than 18 months of use.

By the standards of the mathematical models that we build to help us to estimate the running costs for major government systems, it was pretty simple, but still well beyond the capabilities of the average man in the street, I would suggest. The overall running cost is quite sensitive to some of the parameters and quite small variations can make a big difference to the figure that comes out.

Agreed, and I'm not suggesting that it would be possible for the average man in the street to calculate in advance that he would be getting an average figure of 76.32 mpg after 6 months.

However, my point is that with a basic 10 minutes research it should be readily obvious that a 200 mile per day motorway commute is not going to return 156 mpg when the website clearly says that all but 32 miles of this will be done on petrol. Appreciate that the exact mpg for that journey will vary depending on average speed, traffic conditions, gradient of the road, etc, but its going to vary within a broad range of probably no wider than 25-45 mpg, and certainly nowhere near the headline figure quoted.

 

[anko]

The weighted average is the suspect one, a quick glance through the NEDC spec says it will total about 11km during the test, well within the capacity for the battery, and the max speed is 120 km/h, recognise that number? you should, its the max speed in series hybrid mode. coincidence? i dont think so.

The only useful number for driving any kind of distance is the 'Minimum Charge' figure, which is a plausible sounding 48.7 mpg, now from experience I take these economy figures with a pinch of salt, but so far in this car i have found my figures to be a lot further from the advertised one than in any other i've had.

It have written this down a couple of times already, but effectively, we have three cars in one:

An EV (never use the ICE)
A hybrid (never charge externally)
A plugin hybrid (charges externally and uses the ICE)

The EV uses 0.0 l / 100 km (brochure).
The hybrid uses 5.8 l / 100 km (brochure).

For the plugin hybrid, it all depends on use pattern / average trip length. The official rules say the plugin hybrid economy needs to be calculated for a trip length which is the EV range (brochure) + 25 km (to get to the next charge point). So:

(52 km * 0.0 l + 25 km * 5.8 l ) / 77 km = ...... 1.9 l / 100 km

So, the 1.9 l / 100 km is not as fuzzy as is seems. Of course, I did not 'trust' the 1.9 l / 100 km as such, so I investigated the story a bit deeper before ordering my car. As early as 2012Q3, Mitsubishi was able to provide me with the above information.

 

[anko]

Fair point but we don't know how much of this journey is high speed and how much slow. If his commute takes him into London or along the very, very slow stretches of the M25 then it might be useful to charge up en route to maximise EV driving but if a more "normal" pattern of short slow sections at either end then using Save when driving faster would probably be the most economical strategy overall.

In general, it is better to use Charge to regain the needed SOC towards the end of the trip, rather than to use Save and 'carry around' the needed SOC all the time. This is because higher SOC translates into reduced system efficiency. Some may claim this is not proven, but this is because they consider 5 - 10% increased efficiency 'not worthwhile'.

As an analogy: Assume you drove a normal ICE propelled car and you could generate fuel out of thin air, while driving. Would you then drive around with a full tank of fuel all the time, allowing the fuel to add to the total weight of the car? Or would you generate the fuel when needed? And keep an as small as possible reserve?

His real problem is that this is the wrong car for him, if Economy was his aim

+1

 

[greendwarf]

In general, it is better to use Charge to regain the needed SOC towards the end of the trip, rather than to use Save and 'carry around' the needed SOC all the time. This is because higher SOC translates into reduced system efficiency. Some may claim this is not proven, but this is because they consider 5 - 10% increased efficiency 'not worthwhile'.

The only problem in the OP's case - assuming he is commuting during the "rush( :lol: ) hour" - is that he is likely to encounter significant periods of crawling traffic. So having a healthy reserve of battery available rather than having to sit breathing his own fumes might be a good idea. :mrgreen:

 

[anko]

In general, it is better to use Charge to regain the needed SOC towards the end of the trip, rather than to use Save and 'carry around' the needed SOC all the time. This is because higher SOC translates into reduced system efficiency. Some may claim this is not proven, but this is because they consider 5 - 10% increased efficiency 'not worthwhile'.

The only problem in the OP's case - assuming he is commuting during the "rush( :lol: ) hour" - is that he is likely to encounter significant periods of crawling traffic. So having a healthy reserve of battery available rather than having to sit breathing his own fumes might be a good idea. :mrgreen:

Of course. But, if crawling start immediately at take-off, there is no discussion at all. As you would not use Save or Charge in that case. If it starts later in the journey, then you can still choose between hitting Save immediately on take-off or hitting Charge a bit later....

 

[rennie]

What's with these negative vibes! (Kellys Hero's) :lol:

40 mile round trip to Sheffield (with hills again) and had three parts battery when I left and 65MPG.
I used the save button a few times on the inclines and faster parts etc .

I think some need to calm down a bit and keep to the speed limits and be a bit more gentler on the pedal as well.

 

[Herbiem]

725 miles in the new car and still have 80 miles of fuel left from the full tank on delivery - I'm enjoying NOT visiting the petrol station every week