E85/Ethanol compatibility ??

[AndyH]

E50 is working fine in my Outlander so far. Next tank I'll move to E85 (which here can range from E83 to E50 depending on the season).

I went to E60 last night and got my first error code today. It wasn't explicitly mixture or hesitation related, it was a generic controller error. I cleared it and it hasn't yet been back. My car's thrown a couple of other oddball controller or network related codes since I brought it home earlier this year, so I'll need to see more more error messages. The first cold start of the day was unremarkable as were the many starts and stops into and out of charge mode. I am glad I have a ScanGauge II though.

 

[AndyH]

Another day of running the car hard with E60 and finally got a P0171 error - the oxygen sensor detected more oxygen than expected. That makes sense since ethanol is a very oxygen rich fuel. I'll back off to E40 for a bit then go from there.

 

[Cand]

Hi all.

I’m in France, running a 2019 MITSUBISHI Outlander 3 (GF) EU 2.4 MIVEC 16V 224 Plug in Hybrid 4WD S&S (80k kilometers/50k miles – 95% on electric) – still nominally under full guarantee for 3 months.

It has proven to be one of the best cars that I have ever owned… UNTIL…

Until trying to increase the ethanol/petrol ratio !

With ambient temperatures around 32-39 centigrade (90-100 Fahrenheit), it ran perfectly on a 50/50 mix of 95E10/E85.

When I gradually stepped up the ethanol/petrol ratio (eventually reaching 78% ethanol), all hell let loose !

First, the engine warning light came on (expected). Then, the drive battery-level dropped like a stone and the petrol engine revs fell to 500 rpm (both totally unexpected!). A half-mile later, the car stopped in the middle of a traffic-light junction. Mitsubishi sent a tow-truck to take me & the car the 4 miles to home (a Saturday night, with no garage open until Monday).

Having recharged the drive battery, I got an “EV System Service Required – Stop Safely” warning.

The “hidden menu” shows error codes 2011 and 2013. I have not yet found the meaning of these two codes (my scanner is temporarily unavailable).

I reset the BMU (Battery Management Unit) using the “Charging, Start, Disconnect 12V battery earth, Disconnect charger, Reconnect -12V battery procedure. That cleared the BMU error… once.

Attempting to drive to the Mitsubishi garage on electric, the “EV System Service Required – Stop Safely” warning re-appeared, and would not reset. The combination of ECU parameters and injector capacity are clearly not adequate to handle much more than 50% ethanol.

We have a 5-year/150k km warranty on the car; we’re just 3 months from the end of that. There is also an 8-year battery performance warranty. The petrol tank still has the 78% ethanol fuel in it and I have not been able to siphon that out (nor to remove the back seat to access the pump/filter unit – anyone know how to do that, without a chainsaw?).

Have I just “bricked” the car by following suggestions that it could run on E88 in this warm season?

As the old song goes, I’m “Bitched, buggered and bewildered” AND broke!

Any helpful suggestions?

 

[AndyInOz]

Out of interest, who's suggestion?

The manual for my model says that it can run safely on E10.

 

[kpetrov]

Hi all.

I reset the BMU (Battery Management Unit) using the “Charging, Start, Disconnect 12V battery earth, Disconnect charger, Reconnect -12V battery procedure. That cleared the BMU error… once.

Why would you do that reset!?
It is basically telling the car you have a new battery and it is not. Like driving with half tank of gas but resetting the tank level gauge to show you have a full one.
Until you do a proper battery learning capacity procedure (DBCAM) I suggest do not fully charge or discharge your battery cause you will kill it in no time.

 

[DibbyDibbyDJ]

Out of interest, who's suggestion?

The manual for my model says that it can run safely on E10.

People just love to experiment, and mess things up

 

[Cand]

Thanks to "AndyInOz" and "kpetrov" for your responses. Apologies for my tardy return (went on a week-long hike in the alps & a total break from the digital world).

The ethanol suggestion was on this forum, mainly from AndyH (see page 2).

Point well taken with kpetrov’s tank level guage analogy ! Does the BMU not relearn over time & distance? The European model is reputedly very unstable. The internet is filled with proponents of regularly using the BMU reset process.

Here, the big problem is with the Mitsu dealership network. Dealers are all multi-brand, not specialised in Mitsu, they go bust almost every year and another picks up the brand (four changes since I bought the car new).

The latest one has a staff of 4 (manager/salesman, CS agent/secretary, service manager/mechanic plus a young apprentice). They had an excellent Mitsu trained service manager, but he quit to go elsewhere. The new guy doesn’t know what DBCAM is, and I doubt they even have MUT-3.

For example, at the last routine service (well over Euro 1000 each !), the brake pads needed replacing for the first time (lots of paddle use). The dealer was unable to replace the rear pads because they couldn’t open the calipers electronically!

An option may be to deliberately destroy the battery to get it replaced under warranty!

By the way, I’m very elderly, my first cars had crank-handles to get them running! My knowledge of current technology may be summed up by: OBD2 = “Oh Bloody Damn Twice”.

I have two scanners (Thinkcar/Mucar CS6 and Veepeak OBDcheck BLE coupled with “PHEV-Watching” or “Car Scanner” on Android) but am still learning how to read them. The Outlander is sitting at home. I want to drain the petrol tank (but haven’t figured out how) of excess ethanol and replace with 98E10 before sending it to the dealer (in case they void the warranty because of the ethanol).


The car’s own “hidden menu” is showing two error codes (2011 and 2013 in all 50 readings). I don’t know what they stand for (neither does the dealer). Couldn’t find them in this tech link either

https://mitsubishitechinfo.com/data/REEV/2018/54/HTML/M154920060052100USA.htm

Richi Jennings gives lots of information on this link (but nothing specifically related to these codes)

https://www.richi.uk/p/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-faq.html#phevfaqC

As I say to some ladies “Would you like to make an old man very happy?”. Their answers are unrepeatable !

To help make me happy, can anyone help with ideas for draining the petrol tank and the error codes interpretations?

Thanks in advance.

 

[kpetrov]

I am not sure that the BMU will relearn over time & distance. Maybe when it's little bit too late and the battery degrade a lot.
DBCAM is not hard to do and there are few write ups that explain it step by step. It is 10 minute job beside the following full charge.
Without MUT-3 it can't be done though. MUT-3 is used for all Mitsu vehicles, not only PHEVs so specialized Mitsu service centre should have it. Multi-brand ones won't be able to do it without MUT-3.

Regarding the error codes i can find only P2011 (Control relay2 coil fail (Brake electric vacuum pump)) but I suppose that's not your problem.

Removing the gas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfEFA_sVIt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viyBfJelraM