Do not be scared of using that charge button.

[Madmax2014]

and just to throw a fox into the hen house, no one here seems to be taking into consideration that the speedometer on the Outlander is off by %5

check your clock against Waze Garmin or any other decent GPS and at 112 km ph shown on the car, the GPS will constantly show 107
%5 is an appreciable amount with the tolerances being discussed

I haven't checked with GPS, but I agree with the speedometer being out, I have travelled a lot of motorway miles the past week with quite a few average speed check cameras at 50mph, I set my cruise control at 51 mph and other cars were still over taking me, so either my speedometer is out as you said or a lot of people are getting tickets.

 

[Bearhunter]

the speedometer IS DEFINITELY not correct.
But it shows you going faster than you are, so you don't get speeding tickets, you get little ol'ladies giving you the finger because you drive too slow in the fast lane.
It is pretty close at lower speeds and peculiarly, the odometer seems to be OK.

So is this by design of the Mitsubishi geniuses to try and manipulate range statistics or a quirk of not having a convenient way to hook it up. seems designed to mislead by me as even though I have no navigational system in my MY18 it does have a solid GPS connection so it would be simple enough to integrate a reliable speedo.

Google it, you will find that there are many posts which is why it surprised me that it didn't appear to be taken into consideration here.

It seems that most of us spend an inordinate amount of time collecting data on our usage, I'm surprised we are not collectively up in arms about this.

 

[Trex]

and just to throw a fox into the hen house, no one here seems to be taking into consideration that the speedometer on the Outlander is off by %5

Err Bearhunter,

If you had read 7 posts above yours in this thread you would have seen me write:

Ok just noticed this in the topic I started and will say that on my PHEVs at 110 kph GPS approx 115kph dash I can charge the drive battery from empty on the gauge to approx 50% in roughly 1/2 hour. This has always been my rule ie 1/2 a charge in 1/2 hour. BUT the remaining approx 35% that my PHEV charges to and then stops charging ie approx 85% takes roughly another 1/2 hour because as we know the charging rate slows down as we fill the drive battery.

Big call by you IMHO to say "no one here seems to be taking into consideration......" when I specifically mention it in my 1st sentence in that statement above ie "my PHEVs at 110 kph GPS approx 115kph dash".

.................%5 is an appreciable amount with the tolerances being discussed

What tolerances in this thread I started about the PHEV charging the drive battery as we drive when loads on the petrol motor are light are you writing about? :?

Did you even read what I was writing about at the start of the thread?

 

[Andrev]

When I bought my car last May, I noticed 5% higher reading on the speedometer compared to my GPS. I reported that to this forum, but few members were irrelevant in laughing at me because I was not happy with this discrepancy. Do some searches and you find these stupid replies.
That is probably why no other comments were written.

 

[Trex]

I haven't checked with GPS, but I agree with the speedometer being out, I have travelled a lot of motorway miles the past week with quite a few average speed check cameras at 50mph, I set my cruise control at 51 mph and other cars were still over taking me, so either my speedometer is out as you said or a lot of people are getting tickets.

I set my cruise control using GPS speed limits instead of the dash and I overtake heaps of different brands of cars over here in Australia. It seems to me lots of cars read over the speed on the dash compared with GPS including my Ford ute, my previous 2 Toyota Hybrids and my previous BMW 5 series which all had the approx same % error compared to GPS.

Still its not a big deal IMHO in the scheme of things and it does stop us getting speeding tickets by the dash speedometer erring on the high side instead of the other way around.

 

[Trex]

the speedometer IS DEFINITELY not correct.
But it shows you going faster than you are, so you don't get speeding tickets, you get little ol'ladies giving you the finger because you drive too slow in the fast lane.
It is pretty close at lower speeds and peculiarly, the odometer seems to be OK.

So is this by design of the Mitsubishi geniuses to try and manipulate range statistics or a quirk of not having a convenient way to hook it up. seems designed to mislead by me as even though I have no navigational system in my MY18 it does have a solid GPS connection so it would be simple enough to integrate a reliable speedo.

Google it, you will find that there are many posts which is why it surprised me that it didn't appear to be taken into consideration here.

It seems that most of us spend an inordinate amount of time collecting data on our usage, I'm surprised we are not collectively up in arms about this.

Do you actually read what you yourself write let alone what this thread is about ie read the title of the thread. You say that the ".....odometer seems to be OK" which I agree with and then say "So is this by design of the Mitsubishi geniuses to try and manipulate range statistics......". Range is based on the odometer ie distance travelled which you say is OK. :?

Or are you saying that because the speedo reads over, which I think a lot of different brand cars do, that some how affects range we can travel by an appreciable amount. That would be a big call IMHO.

Here is test by Drive reviewers here in Australia https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/how-accurate-is-your-speedo-20140716-ztmh4 :

Car Actual speed at 100km/h
Mazda3 GT 25 98
Toyota Corolla Ascent sedan manual 95
Honda Odyssey VTi-L 96
Subaru WRX (pre production model) 96
BMW 220i Coupe 98
Mercedes-Benz CLA200 98
Kia Soul 96
Hyundai iLoad 95
Nissan Juke 94
Toyota Corolla ZR auto sedan 95
Range Rover Evoque Coupe pure SD4 auto 96
Audi RSQ3 98
Mazda3 SP5 Astina 97
Audi A5 2.0TFSI 100
Volvo XC60 T5 98
Toyota Kluger 94
Volvo S60 Polestar 98
Volkswagen Golf GTI 98
Toyota Kluger 4x4 95
Volvo V40 97
BMW X5 25i sDrive 98
Subaru WRX STI 98
Porsche Cayenne S diesel 97
Toyota Kluger GXL AWD 96
Volvo XC60 D4 96
Volkswagen Golf Wagon 90TSI Comfortline 95
Range Rover Evoque coupe 95
Hyundai Elantra 98
Volkswagen Golf Wagon 110TDI Highline 96
Kia Cerato S 96
Skoda Octavia RS wagon 95
Toyota Corolla sedan 96
Holden Cruze 97
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 95
Nissan X-Trail ST-L 2WD 95
Porsche 911 Turbo 98
Audi TT 2.0TFSI quattro 98
Dodge Journey 98
Subaru BRZ 97
Porsche Panamera Turbo S 98
Jaguar XJR 95
Volkswagen Golf GTI 96
Holden SS Commodore 97
Toyota 86 96
Skoda Octavia RS sedan 95
BMW X1 96
Mini Cooper 96
Alfa Romeo Mito 94
Hyundai Acc Wrangler 94
Renault Clio GT 97
Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 100
Jeep Cherokee Limited 100
BMW M4 98
Jeep Cherokee Longitude V6 100
Mini Cooper S 98
Mitsubishi mirage sedan 98
Range Rover LWB 5.0 SC 94
Mahindra Genio 99


The PHEV is a bit more than 1/2 way down on that list.

Now as you state:

............. I'm surprised we are not collectively up in arms about this.

It appears to me from that list I just inserted that a lot more than Mitsubishi owners should be "collectively up in arms about this". :roll:

 

[Trex]

When I bought my car last May, I noticed 5% higher reading on the speedometer compared to my GPS. I reported that to this forum, but few members were irrelevant in laughing at me because I was not happy with this discrepancy. Do some searches and you find these stupid replies.
That is probably why no other comments were written.

Ok Andrev, :?

Found a thread called "2018 Outlander PHEV speedometer inacuate?" http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3621 where you state:

Unpleasant speedometer along with some unpleasant forum’s participants preferring staying badly informed! I am out without regrets !

So after reading that thread I reckon you are being "thin skinned" Andrev. One person laughed at his own statement about one of your comments from what I can see and you state "but few members were irrelevant in laughing at me.........".

As for the "stupid replies" you mention I also cannot see that to be true. It appears to me that the members involved were trying to explain certain laws and how it is not a problem for them etc about the subject matter.

Now as for "I am out without regrets !" you also stated it appears to me you are saying you are out of this forum without regret. That also seems to me not to be true. Here you still are obviously hanging around the forum if not writing posts much anymore you are still reading them.

How about instead of blaming others here for your predicament you look at how you word your posts or how you react to them in the future and you may get more help from this forum that is more to your satisfaction.

I am pretty sure it will help.

Regards Trex.

 

[greendwarf]

As has been previously posted elsewhere in the forum, the speedo is designed to overread to ensure drivers can't "accidently" break the law, as it is a mechanical device that can be influenced by differences in tyre diameter. No doubt GPS technology could be used but is that available at all times, in all places - not in a tunnel, lol.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

In the UK, and I would imagine the rest of Europe, it is illegal for a speedo to under-read, and perfectly acceptable for a speedo to over-read by up to 10%. How would you design your speedo in the light of those criteria? :roll:

FWIW mine over-reads by 3mph fairly consistently across the normal range from 30mph to 70mph, so I always set my ACC to 43, 53, etc...

 

[Dusz]

At 70 mph mine is out by about 4 to 5 mph but then my 2015 X-Trail is even worse, an indicated 80 is a GPS measured 70.
On longer trips I tend to use a GPS speedo app on my phone, particularly when driving in Europe as it can be set to kph and is easier to read.
I generally set my speed limiter to 1 to 2 mph over so that I am not over the speed limit particularly in areas where there are averaging speed cameras.

 

[Daboyz]

Hi Trex, very clear and very interesting.

Despite being an engineer, I have never used the Charge mode assuming it to be inefficient.

Let’s discuss an example journey: 20 miles city driving (EV or series mode) followed by 100 miles motorway (parallel mode) followed by a further 20 miles city driving. I have always driven this by selecting EV in first city stretch, Save on motorway, Normal mode in final city stretch where the car does its own thing between EV and Series modes.

What I think you are saying is that on the same journey I might use less petrol if I used EV mode on first city section, then a mix of Charge and Save on the motorway so that I put back sufficiient Charge to complete the final city section in EV mode.

I shall certainly try it out.

Hi Chris,

Yes I use the Charge button to pump up the drive battery in parallel mode before I get to cities or towns to avoid series mode.

It gives me my best measurable fuel economy savings. That plus not travelling everywhere with a full drive battery.

Regards Trex.

 

[dogman12]

Here's a challenging problem:

Gasoline is $3.50 US per US gallon. Electricity is $.10 per kwh. (Both true for me right now)

Under what conditions of load, speed, and distance does "Charge" result in $.10/kwh in the battery?

Or: on 100% EV assume @ 3 Mi/Kwh, for @ $.034 per mile. On 100% ICE assume 26 mpg for @ $.135 per mile.

What is the $/mile when Charging, vs other modes?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

You're forgetting that the car runs in what is effectively Charge mode when the battery is empty or you press Save. Your car charges for a while, then switches to EV till the range drops and charging starts again. It is immaterial how much Charge costs; the default action for the car is to use it for well over 50% of the time once the battery is used!

If you can do a whole journey on EV, Charge is obviously not worthwhile. But if the ICE needs to run, using Charge and/or Save effectively can reduce consumption slightly.

 

[MH8173]

If you can do a whole journey on EV, Charge is obviously not worthwhile. But if the ICE needs to run, using Charge and/or Save effectively can reduce consumption slightly.

Spot on!

I think this is exactly what OP means: "Do not be scared of using that charge button".

If it's gonna run anyway, you can keep it running for longer.. sometimes It can pay off later when you can do pure EV in town etc, very much depending on the situation. Standing still on a parking lot or running around town charging likely won't pay off.

The car does It's best to keep fuel consumption low right now, given the current parameters. It does not know what's coming ahead.. however you do.

 

[Trex]

If you can do a whole journey on EV, Charge is obviously not worthwhile. But if the ICE needs to run, using Charge and/or Save effectively can reduce consumption slightly.

Spot on!

I think this is exactly what OP means: "Do not be scared of using that charge button".

If it's gonna run anyway, you can keep it running for longer.. sometimes It can pay off later when you can do pure EV in town etc, very much depending on the situation. Standing still on a parking lot or running around town charging likely won't pay off.

The car does It's best to keep fuel consumption low right now, given the current parameters. It does not know what's coming ahead.. however you do.

When it is all said and done this graph and explanation from the designers of the PHEV which I posted previously in this thread to me says it all. Try and avoid slow speed Series mode when running the petrol motor ie try and run the petrol motor in Parallel mode if you can. Using Charge mode while running in Parallel mode can help on some trips out of EV range so you can avoid slow speed Series mode later when you come to towns or cities etc.




Image from Mitsubishi Motors

Also shows travelling above approx 120 kph speed is not considered the best for efficiency.

 

[Fjpod]

Just read this whole thread trying to get a grip on the best way to reduce gasoline consumption on long trips. It's been over a year since anyone contributed. Don't mean to criticize here guys, but most people are all over the place with anecdotal evidence... And I guess I will add to it...

I tried using Charge recently on a long trip, my instantaneous mpg went down. It's hard to imagine how this is better for reducing gasoline consumption. Listening to everyone giving their experiences... Uphill .. downhill... How is one supposed to enjoy the drive?

It would seem to me the only time it pays to use Charge would be near the end of a long highway trip to ensure you have enough drive battery to get through whatever slow town driving you need to get to your destination.
... And maybe near top speed, if the ice is not laboring heavily, you might try to siphon off some revolutions to send to the battery.

Fwiw.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Just read this whole thread trying to get a grip on the best way to reduce gasoline consumption on long trips. It's been over a year since anyone contributed. Don't mean to criticize here guys, but most people are all over the place with anecdotal evidence... And I guess I will add to it...

I tried using Charge recently on a long trip, my instantaneous mpg went down. It's hard to imagine how this is better for reducing gasoline consumption. Listening to everyone giving their experiences... Uphill .. downhill... How is one supposed to enjoy the drive?

It would seem to me the only time it pays to use Charge would be near the end of a long highway trip to ensure you have enough drive battery to get through whatever slow town driving you need to get to your destination.
... And maybe near top speed, if the ice is not laboring heavily, you might try to siphon off some revolutions to send to the battery.

Fwiw.

You're totally missing the point of how the PHEV works - it needs a certain amount of energy to get from A to B and it has to get that energy from the ICE once the battery is empty. On any journey that would empty the battery, the PHEV will run in what is effectively Charge mode to top up the battery until the range has increases a mile or so and then run in EV till the range has dropped down. With Save pressed, it does the same except around the higher EV range. So it has to run in Charge far more than 50% of the time whatever you do, and it cycles through this hysteresis loop until the end of the journey regardless of how or where you're driving. So saying that pressing Charge increases fuel consumption is meaningless. Of course it increases consumption, but how is the PHEV to get energy to move otherwise?

What you can do is influence when the PHEV is using EV or charging from the ICE. So running Charge for longer than the usual 1-mile increase in range will allow you to use EV for longer. So you can choose to run EV in town and Charge on faster roads, which is environmentally more friendly and some believe may be more fuel-efficient. But you can't alter the fact that the PHEV needs to run the ICE whatever you do.

 

[twosout]

I think any difference between letting the 'car brains' do the work and trying to manage it myself will be marginal. If I could manage it well, it ought to be better because I know the nature of what is ahead and the car does not. Has anyone got any credible evidence that taking control yourself is worth it?

The car will charge in Parallel or Series mode. I think that charging in Parallel would be more efficient than in Series because the brains can run the engine at peak performance all the time whereas the engine speed is fixed to the road speed in Series mode and charging will 'steal' performance from the drive. In Parallel, the brains can get the engine to spin at any speed and siphon off what is not needed for propulsion.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I think any difference between letting the 'car brains' do the work and trying to manage it myself will be marginal. If I could manage it well, it ought to be better because I know the nature of what is ahead and the car does not. Has anyone got any credible evidence that taking control yourself is worth it?

The car will charge in Parallel or Series mode. I think that charging in Parallel would be more efficient than in Series because the brains can run the engine at peak performance all the time whereas the engine speed is fixed to the road speed in Series mode and charging will 'steal' performance from the drive. In Parallel, the brains can get the engine to spin at any speed and siphon off what is not needed for propulsion.

I'm sure you're right - left to its own devices the car simply runs through the hysteresis loop, so prior knowledge *should* help.

It seems to be generally accepted that it is better to Charge in parallel and use EV when it would be Series, though I've not actually seen any evidence either way. You seem to have them the wrong way round, as the engine speed is fixed to road speed in Parallel mode, when the engine is powering the wheels directly via the single fixed gear. This means that it can run the engine at the peak efficiency for that rpm; most of the power goes to propelling the car via an extremely efficient gear set and it sends only the 'spare' power to the battery. In Series you have the multiple losses of an ICE powering a generator which then charges the battery and powers the wheels through the electric motors.

 

[greendwarf]

And, of course, charging won't "steal" from the Drive - it is the other way round, as propulsion will always be the first call on the energy from the ICE, as dictated by your foot on the pedal.