Convince me on an Outlander PHEV (or tell me no!)

[PHEVundecided]

OK so I'm getting my first company car and I have decided to go for PHEV or hybrid for tax benefits alone.

3 cars I'm considering:

BMW 330E - Long long lead time and top end budget (£550 a month!)
Mercedes C350E - August delivery and £470 a month
Outlander PHEV - £420 a month for GX4H (delivery in April)

I want to be different and go the Outlander rather than the C350E, but am I being an idiot?

My daily commute is 30 miles. In the morning it's motorway (no traffic) for 15 miles and about 3 miles at sub-50mph.

I take different route home. 10 miles crawling / sub-50mph and 5 miles motorway.

I have a heavy right foot and currently drive a 320D.

Concerns of the Outlander:

Slow 0-60 (but it's a 2 tonne car so is it really?)
Motorway at speed (ignoring mpg) how does this car drive at 80/90 mph.
Overtaking on motorway? any good?
Pulling away at lights/turning into traffic/pulling out at roundabout. Does it feel sluggish?

I'm going for tax benefits rather than 'environment' (sorry if that sounds bad).

How does this car drive on motorway?

Am I doing the right kind of driving to benefit from a PHEV?

Sorry for all the questions, I have so many thoughts and not sure what to think.

 

[onlynik]

Depends on who you speak to as there are quite a few here who really like the PHEV.

Anyway here's some answers.

I want to be different and go the Outlander rather than the C350E, but am I being an idiot?

Yes - BMW and Merc are premium brands, Mitsubishi isn't

Slow 0-60 (but it's a 2 tonne car so is it really?)

Yes - it is horrendously slow. Glaciers will beat you to 60.

Motorway at speed (ignoring mpg) how does this car drive at 80/90 mph.

Top Speed is 106, I've found that it really doesn't like going quickly and feels better sitting around 65mph

Overtaking on motorway? any good?

Not really, you need to plan overtakes well in advance, and when you put your foot down you'll hear the little engine nearly rev itself out of the engine bay.

Pulling away at lights/turning into traffic/pulling out at roundabout. Does it feel sluggish?

Yes. I often feel I need to have a big gap when I pull out. It's a slow car.

I'm going for tax benefits rather than 'environment' (sorry if that sounds bad).

Good idea. It's a tax efficiency.

How does this car drive on motorway?

It is nothing special.

Am I doing the right kind of driving to benefit from a PHEV?

Possibly. I mainly do town driving, so it is good for that, but when I need to go further afield, it's onthe petrol engine, and I've found it particularly poor.

Sorry for all the questions, I have so many thoughts and not sure what to think.

Have a look at a Tesla (depending on how far you are from a supercharger station) or go with the Merc.

 

[PHEVundecided]

Thanks for the reply, really appreciate you taking the time to answer all the questions.

It's kind of what I was expecting (but hoping it wasn't the case).

I think I'd miss the acceleration and speed of a turbo diesel in comparison to the Outlander.

The C350E is a rocket in comparison (range around 20 miles in EV mode) but 0-60 5.9 and top speed 155. They are the stats that win me over (along with the £65 a month tax)

 

[jaapv]

Are we talking about the same car here? One of the nice things of his car is the way it pulls away on the Autobahn. And yes, it is a heavy SUV, but normally I am ahead with traffic light sprints.
Just go and drive one.

 

[simonrh]

I am not sure if the above post are real or fake answers?

I find the outlander is very punchy at >50MPH and runs into the speed limiter like a wall flat out. Which is fine because, in the UK, 10x MPH is more than you will ever need.

It may not be a sprinter off the lights (2016 version is improved though) but, as long as you wake the engine up first particularly, it is still plenty quick enough off the line.

It must be 50% quicker than my previous Mondeo.

I have had countless motorbikes and currently have a Lotus 7 type kit car for fun so I like to think I have a fair idea of what "fast" is.

It may not be a sports car or even a fast car but it is really not slow.

 

[jaapv]

Well, I think I know what I am talking about, I had couple of Jaguars before this one and a whole row of Volvo Turbos before that, including the original 245 Turbo (now that one had an "interesting" roadholding at speed ) and a 745 Turbo R (only available on special order through Diplomat and Taxfree sales, I had to collect it in Göthenborg) which did over 250...
I do drive long trips through germany on a regular basis...
I never missed any performance on the PHEV, but I will admit it is a different experience, better in my mind.

I'm not sure whether it will meet the expectations of the OP though, hence my advice to do a thorough testdrive.

 

[Mitssupplier]

Heres my views to your post - brutally honest sorry!

I supply Mitsubishi along with many other makes but this is the product of my choice for BIK, economy and being a geek I like the new technology. I have been in the motor industry 30+ years, I have raced cars and consider myself an above average driver so that that into account when you read my comments below


Slow 0-60 (but it's a 2 tonne car so is it really?) - I find it adequate but its not designed as a performance car!

Motorway at speed (ignoring mpg) how does this car drive at 80/90 mph. I find it adequate but its not designed as a performance car! remember speed limit is still 70mph!!!

Overtaking on motorway? any good? I find it adequate but its not designed as a performance car!

Pulling away at lights/turning into traffic/pulling out at roundabout. Does it feel sluggish? not at all - I think the pull away and mid range performance is very good for a heavy product.

I'm going for tax benefits rather than 'environment' (sorry if that sounds bad). - there you go - you have to compromise, if you want to enjoy the low C02 and low BIK your going to have to change your driving style which might not be a bad thing? if you want some performance in your life get a classic sports car for the weekend with what you save in BIK- a TVR or similar perhaps.

How does this car drive on motorway? its a good cruising car in my opinion but as someone else mentioned 65/70mph feels nice and is the speed limit!!! did I already mention that?

Am I doing the right kind of driving to benefit from a PHEV? if you want to save money in your pay packet yes. but if your not prepared to change your driving style then no its not the car for you.

Perhaps its my age but I love this product because I dont want to drive it fast and furious, I drive it how it was designed and get a buzz from achieving good economy whilst knowing its not costing me anything really as a company car. Your commute profile sounds ideal for this car and as long as you charge home and office you would use very little petrol in the week. However if you do drive like you say you do you wont get above 10 miles if that on battery power.

 

[Fragge]

I'm on my second Outlander PHEV now and I dissagree with onlynik:s answers, here's my version.

I want to be different and go the Outlander rather than the C350E, but am I being an idiot?

Premium feel lacks a bit compared with BMW and Merc, the PHEV is OK but not great.

Slow 0-60 (but it's a 2 tonne car so is it really?)

Nah, not really. Had my fair share of fast cars (two Supras, Saab Aero e.t.c.). The performance is decent, not sporty.

Motorway at speed (ignoring mpg) how does this car drive at 80/90 mph.

The car is happy at at 75-85 mph, it can go faster but it's not optimal.(above 60 mph you will start to burn fuel even if the battery is charged)

Overtaking on motorway? any good?

If you don't push it beyond 90 mph overtaking performance is OK. Not blistering performance but not lacking.

Pulling away at lights/turning into traffic/pulling out at roundabout. Does it feel sluggish?

No, it takes off faster then most at the lights.

I'm going for tax benefits rather than 'environment' (sorry if that sounds bad).

Same here...

How does this car drive on motorway?

Comfort is good (quiet) and the car is stable at speed.

Am I doing the right kind of driving to benefit from a PHEV?

I would think so, you won't be burning much fuel per day, if you can charge it at work you could probably make it fully electric.

 

[simonrh]

Well, I think I know what I am talking about, I had couple of Jaguars before this one and a whole row of Volvo Turbos before that, including the original 245 Turbo (now that one had an "interesting" roadholding at speed ) and a 745 Turbo R (only available on special order through Diplomat and Taxfree sales, I had to collect it in Göthenborg) which did over 250...
I do drive long trips through germany on a regular basis...
I never missed any performance on the PHEV, but I will admit it is a different experience, better in my mind.

I'm not sure whether it will meet the expectations of the OP though, hence my advice to do a thorough testdrive.

Just so as you know I think we are agreeing with each other! We just posted at the same time.

 

[surfthenet]

Hi,

Had our Outlander PHEV for now 6 weeks.

Having just moved from a Mazda CX5 for three years to the Outlander I would say its a pile of junk.
Yes this may seem harsh, but please read below my issues...

1> The MMCS phone system is a nightmare, can not get caller display to work unless you have imported you contacts into the Car Phone Book (yes the MMCS has two types of phone book 1> Car 2> Phone), does not show call history and you can not search for a specific person in your Mobile Phone Book, only by first letter!!! Imagine if you had 30 contacts starting with the letter A, the time you have scrolled through them all you could end up in a hedge!!
2> The fuel / electric remaining gages are vastly inaccurate, one example when getting low on fuel, the display says we have 25 miles left until empty, display bleeps again showing you are low in fuel and the display changes to ZERO fuel left!!! WTF how can it go from 25 miles to zero shocking!!!
3> Satnav is just rubbish, two examples... set satnav to go from Watford to Taunton. Believes its going to take 4 1/2 hrs !!!! Actually took only 3 1/2 hrs. How can it be sooo wrong with 1 hr difference. Second example travel from Taunton to Dartmoor National Park, North Bovey, satnav decides to take us through the middle of Exeter city centre (what is wrong with the ring road?? its quicker), then to top it all it makes us take a left turn to go right round a roundabout and back down the same bloody road!!!!.

Customer service.. well they don't know anything about the MMCS system along with our local dealership.
The MMCS manual you get with the car is out of date and instruction are completely wrong for some of the guides.

As this is a £40,000 car and coming from the Mazda that had Tomtom and accurate fuel remaining gauges at a cheaper cost £28,000, the whole build quality and software and functionality are in different leagues. Stuck with the car for two years. Bring back the Mazda CX5 all is forgiven.

PS. the money saved on company car tax £100 per month being electric, wont be saved as I will need to use it to fill up with petrol, our present MPG is at 28MPG!!!!

Mitsubishi have allot to answer for.

Go for the BMW or MERC, got to be better build / software quality.

 

[jaapv]

I figured that one out, no problem

 

[maby]

The tax concessions (in the UK) are beginning to ramp down, so do your cost of ownership sums carefully, taking into account the committed length of your lease. Performance is not at all bad by SUV standards, but the alternatives that you are considering are not in the same class. If you drive it hard and beyond the EV range, your fuel economy could dip to around 30mpg - I get just over 40mpg, but I do stick to speed limits (provided I know what they are!).

We bought ours - as a company car - about 18 months ago and we are satisfied with it on that basis. I am disappointed with build quality and, also taking into account the tapering of the tax benefits, I would think very carefully before buying one today. In another couple of years, once the tax concessions have disappeared, I would not consider it.

 

[Mitssupplier]

Hi,

Had our Outlander PHEV for now 6 weeks.

Having just moved from a Mazda CX5 for three years to the Outlander I would say its a pile of junk.
Yes this may seem harsh, but please read below my issues...

1> The MMCS phone system is a nightmare, can not get caller display to work unless you have imported you contacts into the Car Phone Book (yes the MMCS has two types of phone book 1> Car 2> Phone), does not show call history and you can not search for a specific person in your Mobile Phone Book, only by first letter!!! Imagine if you had 30 contacts starting with the letter A, the time you have scrolled through them all you could end up in a hedge!!
2> The fuel / electric remaining gages are vastly inaccurate, one example when getting low on fuel, the display says we have 25 miles left until empty, display bleeps again showing you are low in fuel and the display changes to ZERO fuel left!!! WTF how can it go from 25 miles to zero shocking!!!
3> Satnav is just rubbish, two examples... set satnav to go from Watford to Taunton. Believes its going to take 4 1/2 hrs !!!! Actually took only 3 1/2 hrs. How can it be sooo wrong with 1 hr difference. Second example travel from Taunton to Dartmoor National Park, North Bovey, satnav decides to take us through the middle of Exeter city centre (what is wrong with the ring road?? its quicker), then to top it all it makes us take a left turn to go right round a roundabout and back down the same bloody road!!!!.

Customer service.. well they don't know anything about the MMCS system along with our local dealership.
The MMCS manual you get with the car is out of date and instruction are completely wrong for some of the guides.

As this is a £40,000 car and coming from the Mazda that had Tomtom and accurate fuel remaining gauges at a cheaper cost £28,000, the whole build quality and software and functionality are in different leagues. Stuck with the car for two years. Bring back the Mazda CX5 all is forgiven.

PS. the money saved on company car tax £100 per month being electric, wont be saved as I will need to use it to fill up with petrol, our present MPG is at 28MPG!!!!

Mitsubishi have allot to answer for.

Go for the BMW or MERC, got to be better build / software quality.

As a supplier of both Mazda and Mitsubishi and also a long term owner of Mazda's personally in the past I have to disagree with you. It sounds like your gripe is with the MMCS system which although part of the car isnt the be all and end all and I could live with out it. Although I have the GX4h a GX3h or GX3h+ would be my prefered choice.

Having supplied hundreds of PHEV's I can honestly say I have only had two that have had issues which considering the technology in the vehicle is amazing. Yes it has its flaws, but I dont see them as any worse than Mazda product, infact the amount of Mazda cars that had/have turbo problems are well recorded. I have also worked with german brands and yes the build quality may be better but the reliability certainly isn't believe me!!

Perhaps your choice was misguided - particularly with your 28MPG comment and its not the right car for you but I certainly wouldn't class it a pile of junk.

 

[jaapv]

Go for the BMW or MERC, got to be better build / software quality.

Funny - I can go to BMW, Mercedes and TomTom forums and read exactly the same thing. Actually Mitsubishi uses Navteq technology and maps, the same like for instance Ford and Jaguar and quite a few more manufacturers. My last car had Navteq as well and had the same idiotic inaccuracies, but nearly always in the UK. On the Continent I found it pretty good. Actually the newest version on the PHEV was a lot better when I drove around Bristol last year.

There is not too much wrong with the MMCS I find - but the UI is not the user-friendliest around and the manua lis next to useless.
After 60.000 Km I have gotten used to it and it is OK IMO.

 

[onlynik]

Are we talking about the same car here? One of the nice things of his car is the way it pulls away on the Autobahn. And yes, it is a heavy SUV, but normally I am ahead with traffic light sprints.
Just go and drive one.

Yes, if you are quicker off the mark than other cars, the other cars aren't trying. Sorry, to break it to you but the PHEV is a really really slow car off the mark. Put your foot down and nothing happens. It's not quick and it's not premium. There is plastic everywhere. The only redeeming feature is the electric motor around town.

 

[greendwarf]

I've developed a more relaxed driving style with the PHEV to match the car's capabilities but still find performance, when I need it, more than adequate, with any lack of grunt made up for with better handling I don't recognise "onlynik"'s experience at all.

 

[jaapv]

Are we talking about the same car here? One of the nice things of his car is the way it pulls away on the Autobahn. And yes, it is a heavy SUV, but normally I am ahead with traffic light sprints.
Just go and drive one.

Yes, if you are quicker off the mark than other cars, the other cars aren't trying. Sorry, to break it to you but the PHEV is a really really slow car off the mark. Put your foot down and nothing happens. It's not quick and it's not premium. There is plastic everywhere. The only redeeming feature is the electric motor around town.

I must be surrounded by sleeping drivers - but then I don't have your Ferrari mindset, I guess. Try the little trick of switching on charge if you want to play boy racer. It won't turn it into a three-liter Audi, but it will be surprisingly agile.

 

[maby]

The best I've seen claimed for it is 0 to 60 in ten seconds - not bad for a 4WD estate but hardly exciting.

 

[jaapv]

That's about right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDOVoACjlaY

 

[maby]

My old 3.5 litre V8 short wheelbase Land Rover was a beast! That could make owners of fast cars take notice - provided I didn't mind the thirsty slurp of petrol...