Controller for photo voltaic charging of PHev

[Auzoloto]

I will be using my PV generated electricity to charge my PHev. I have a 3kwp system.

If the PVs cells are generating less than 3kw or there is other electrical equipment taking some of the power generated, how do I restrict charging to equal the total being generated so that I am not drawing from the grid?

I have seen the Solar iBoost which does this: dumping the power generated which is not being used to the immersion heater.

http://www.biggreentechnology.com/marlec-solar-iboost-free-hot-water-from-solar-pv.html

Does anybody know whether this could work charging the PHev instead of heating water?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Hypermiler]

Hi
I asked exactly the same question a while ago under my "uk home charging options and solar pv query" or similarly-titled thread. I didn't get any reply on the pv point... but now there are quite a few more users maybe someone will know. I wondered whether such a system wouldn't do the car battery management system any good - stopping and starting all the time...
I also thought that it may be better to use a 13a domestic socket rather than 16a for charging if you've got the time, so the solar output can keep pace more easily.
We are planning to get a 4kwp system in the near future.
Cheers
H

 

[maby]

I think it would require that the charger in the car should be able to receive instructions from your PV controller to tell it to reduce its demand. The only options from the point of view of the PV controller would be to cut the supply altogether or to reduce the voltage - neither likely to be acceptable to the car.

 

[Poins]

This idea looked promising so I contacted one of the retailers and installers for iBooster. I got this reply:
'The iboost and immersun are designed to run restive load circuits (immersion heaters for hot water or underfloor heating) it is not advised to connect the to battery chargers.'

OTOH, this has made me think more about making more optimal use of my solar panels so I may very well install an iBooster on my hot water tank. I shall probably mostly be charging the car anyway at night on the Economy 7 tariff.

 

[Auzoloto]

Thanks for the various replies.

I think I will go ahead and get the Solar iBoost, or similar, and try it on the PHev and if it does not work then use it for heating water.

 

[Goldie]

Hi
I asked exactly the same question a while ago under my "uk home charging options and solar pv query" or similarly-titled thread. I didn't get any reply on the pv point... but now there are quite a few more users maybe someone will know. I wondered whether such a system wouldn't do the car battery management system any good - stopping and starting all the time...
I also thought that it may be better to use a 13a domestic socket rather than 16a for charging if you've got the time, so the solar output can keep pace more easily.
We are planning to get a 4kwp system in the near future.
Cheers
H

Starting and stopping the charge process would not do the battery any good, I would have thought.
I am charging the PHEV now (night time off peak rates in Victoria Australia). My In House Display (IHD) electricity unit shows the total current for my house at 2.56 Kw. Its takes 3 and a bit hours to charge a depleted battery. When not charging at this time of night the current would be between 85 to 200 watts. I have solar panels (2.5 Kw) and I would be lucky if they generated 2 kwh's of electricity each hour on a really good day in summer. I get 15 to 16.5 kwh's on a good day from 6 am to 9 pm.
I should add I am using a 20 amp line from my electricity board, but I think the Outlander charger controls the rate to only 10 amps because of the 3.5 hours to complete the charge.
I have charged during a sunny day and my IHD always shows I draw electricity from the grid when charging.

 

[Hypermiler]

Thanks Goldie - that's helpful.

I would have thought that if you are charging from flat in just over 3 hours that you are using the equivalent of a 16a dedicated charger. My 13a ordinary domestic socket takes over 5 hours. I was hoping that with a 4kwp system that I might be able to generate enough for the 13a charging - on the odd day we get that much sun here! - having said that we are having a bit of a heatwave here at the moment - 28 deg today.

cheers
H

 

[gwatpe]

Hi PHEV SOLAR eco warriors,

I don't think there is a simple DC solar panel connection system, without a battery inverter. A grid connected solar system with the GRID as the equivalent battery inverter is another option, but energy cost is dependent on proportion of solar available. The car likes to control the recharge energy supply power.

The PHEV is designed to be recharged from a standard AC 50Hz 240VAC [in Australia] power source. The usual source of this type of power is the GRID. I am fortunate to have an OFFgrid 50Hz SOLAR recharged battery inverter supply in my home. The voltage is only 230VAC at 50Hz. The inverter produces a SINE wave output, better than is available from the GRID. The GRID is more a trapezium shaped waveform at the power outlet in my home. FLAT topped. Car is happy to accept either power source. I have recharged from a GRID supply, but so far this has been about 1.5kWh only. FREE energy, surplus from my solar arrays and windmill when the house battery is full, is my preferred energy source. I have recharged up to 6kWh in a single recharge, recorded from my custom designed house power and energy logging system [CC128professor]. I just plug my car recharging cord into a 15A power outlet on the inverter. The inverter has no problem supplying the 2.3kW that the car takes. I normally connect for 1-2 hours only, and manually control the charging. There is no cheap GRID source available at my home. I don't have to fully recharge every day.

The car likes a continuous recharge, with power level controlled from the car. I would not connect to a source that went ON and OFF as the clouds went past. I have noticed that my car does stop and start recharging for some reason about 50% of the times it has been recharged, for periods of 5-10 minutes. My car has intermittent faults with the computer since new, still to be resolved, that may be causing the power OFF's. My PHEV has a fault with the recording of the recharge energy as well, so have no idea of kWh.

My own battery inverter has AC coupled solar and works essentially the same way as the GRID, but the house battery provides the extra energy when its a bit cloudy.

GRID power availability will not affect my local drive. The battery in my house is similar chemistry to the PHEV, and I have 5 years service from the house battery already with no noticeable change in capacity. I am hoping the PHEV to perform similarly.

 

[Treo]

I have a 5,76 kW PV installation on my house but I see very little economic gain from restricting my charging time to when I have a surplus.

We can usually drive for months without running on fossil fuels in the PHEV so restricting my charging so I accidentally would need to use fossil fuels because of a low charge would be a much bigger economic loss.

I have however a suggestion to those that seek to optimize the charge. I've bought a Charge-Amps cable that I use to select 6A, 10A or 16Amps charging. This is very useful when you are travelling but also if you would like to restrict your charging to the surplus from your PV.

http://charge-amps.com/

A Swedish made cable which does not have the bulky box on the cable. I absolutely love it! (I have no stocks in the company

 

[gwatpe]

This is getting a little OFF topic, as a GRID charging cable is not a controller for Photo Voltaic charging. Landed in Australia would be around $1000.00 for the special cable. The unit supplied in AUS with the car is good for 10A and has RCD and relay disconnect. Full recharge is just over 5 hours normally. A full recharge will cost about $5.00 for me on the GRID. Recharging from my SOLAR is FREE.

BTW the PHEV can make electricity from petrol for a lower price than I can buy it from the grid. Recharging my PHEV from my SOLAR is very economic as the energy would be wasted if not used in the car. It is cheaper to have excess solar panels than have a GENSET and burn diesel fuel to supply the normal OFFgrid needs of my house in cloudy conditions. On Sunny days there is going to be a surplus. It has essentially doubled the storage capacity of my house battery. It is a shame the Power station equipment promised in the brochures has not been supplied, even as an option, so the system could work both ways.

 

[Goldie]

I have a 5,76 kW PV installation on my house but I see very little economic gain from restricting my charging time to when I have a surplus.

We can usually drive for months without running on fossil fuels in the PHEV so restricting my charging so I accidentally would need to use fossil fuels because of a low charge would be a much bigger economic loss.

I have however a suggestion to those that seek to optimize the charge. I've bought a Charge-Amps cable that I use to select 6A, 10A or 16Amps charging. This is very useful when you are travelling but also if you would like to restrict your charging to the surplus from your PV.

http://charge-amps.com/

A Swedish made cable which does not have the bulky box on the cable. I absolutely love it! (I have no stocks in the company

Hi Treo,
this sounds like a good option. What did you pay for the unit and what are your charging times using it compared to the supplied Outlander charger.
Regards

 

[Treo]

This is getting a little OFF topic, as a GRID charging cable is not a controller for Photo Voltaic charging. Landed in Australia would be around $1000.00 for the special cable. The unit supplied in AUS with the car is good for 10A and has RCD and relay disconnect. Full recharge is just over 5 hours normally. A full recharge will cost about $5.00 for me on the GRID. Recharging from my SOLAR is FREE.

BTW the PHEV can make electricity from petrol for a lower price than I can buy it from the grid. Recharging my PHEV from my SOLAR is very economic as the energy would be wasted if not used in the car. It is cheaper to have excess solar panels than have a GENSET and burn diesel fuel to supply the normal OFFgrid needs of my house in cloudy conditions. On Sunny days there is going to be a surplus. It has essentially doubled the storage capacity of my house battery. It is a shame the Power station equipment promised in the brochures has not been supplied, even as an option, so the system could work both ways.

Sorry for going OFF topic. I thought I had a little point.

Yes the cable is not cheap but it solves the problem of charging in "strange places" like motor warmer outlets and in winter/summer cabins with shady electric installations. And I can charge the PHEV in 3,5 hours (16A mode - The PHEV draws 3300W here) if I am in a hurry to get out on the road again.

I believe we have very different conditions. For me it is 10 times (!) cheaper to run on electricity bought from the grid than to run on petrol. Petrol is expensive in Europe and electricity is cheap in Sweden (compared to the rest of Europe). My surplus electricity is fed back into the grid and I get paid a tiny little more than I pay for ordinary electricity.

I would also pay extra for the power station equipment any day. It would be great for hiking and just to have as a back up if you get in trouble.

 

[gwatpe]

Hi Treo,

We have to try and get the best value with the hand we are dealt. Here in Australia, there is a wide variation in the cost to drivers of GRID electricity. Govt selling assets is a factor. Early on we had some generous feed in tariffs for solar, but that ship has sailed. Some states are restricting the connection of Solar to the GRID. If I were to upgrade my solar on the GRID I would get 7.5c/kWh for EXPORT, but still have to pay up to 45.0c/kWh IMPORT. It is becoming cost effective to set up a SOLAR and battery inverter system and bypass the thieves in the power industry. I have to say that the generators don't seem to be the culprit, but the middle men in sales and distribution.

On the original topic, the PHEV requires AC power. I purchased a second charging cord, and have a dedicated lead in the car with a socket adapter for charging when away from home and a dedicated lead at home. The lead is reasonably flexible but with daily use and coiling and uncoiling to keep it tidy in the car will wear it out. The last thing the owner of a hybrid car wants is an unreliable charging lead. Murphy's Law will come into play.

I am sure options for charging from solar will become more commercial over time as drivers are forced to seek other options to the GRID.

 

[Chrisdy]

Although I only have a 2kW PV installation due to the size of the space on the roof, I always try to charge the PHEV during the day in this weather. Although the charging point supplies 3.7kW, it means that all the PV power is being used, with nothing exported. Since we get paid on the assumption that 50% of our power is exported that is a very economic way to reduce the recharging cost, since it still reduces the power taken off the grid by the level coming off the solar panels.

There is no way of limiting the power of a charging point, unless you use the 13A cable that comes with the car, and have at least a 4kW PV system. In that case, provided you pick your charging time during the day, virtually all the power will come from your PV system. Once the battery is charged it shuts down the charging system anyway. However, if the sun goes in during the day while you are charging, then the grid will supply any shortfall and there's not a lot you can do to stop that. It's still cheaper than petrol..!!

 

[bakmigoreng]

may I involve please ?? Im from Germany and I will get my car this week. I have an PV plant 2.2 kW on my roof. But where we live we have no connection to the grid, we are insulated from the rest of the world. So I would appreciate to find a solution to reduce the charging current down to 4 or 5 Amps. My installation provides me with 240 Volts at 50 Cycle.
The cable which was discussed earlier in this thread sound like it was the solution. Germany is behind, there are no experiances to share with others. We got that car since 3 months only into our market.

How much would that cable cost me ??

Thank you very much for assisting me.

Brgds
Werner

 

[greendwarf]

Although I only have a 2kW PV installation due to the size of the space on the roof, I always try to charge the PHEV during the day in this weather. Although the charging point supplies 3.7kW, it means that all the PV power is being used, with nothing exported. Since we get paid on the assumption that 50% of our power is exported that is a very economic way to reduce the recharging cost, since it still reduces the power taken off the grid by the level coming off the solar panels.

There is no way of limiting the power of a charging point, unless you use the 13A cable that comes with the car, and have at least a 4kW PV system. In that case, provided you pick your charging time during the day, virtually all the power will come from your PV system. Once the battery is charged it shuts down the charging system anyway. However, if the sun goes in during the day while you are charging, then the grid will supply any shortfall and there's not a lot you can do to stop that. It's still cheaper than petrol..!!

Most of these posts seem to assume that you are recharging fully. As the optimum user is only making short urban trips then surely a free daily top up is well within the capability of the typical PV system - as described by Chrisdy

 

[jaapv]

may I involve please ?? Im from Germany and I will get my car this week. I have an PV plant 2.2 kW on my roof. But where we live we have no connection to the grid, we are insulated from the rest of the world. So I would appreciate to find a solution to reduce the charging current down to 4 or 5 Amps. My installation provides me with 240 Volts at 50 Cycle.
The cable which was discussed earlier in this thread sound like it was the solution. Germany is behind, there are no experiances to share with others. We got that car since 3 months only into our market.

How much would that cable cost me ??

Thank you very much for assisting me.

Brgds
Werner

You'll have to talk to the people who installed your solar system. The car will draw 10 Amps with the supplied charger and surely blow the fuse, and if you charge with severely reduced current through a reducing cable, charges will take extremely long. Even halving the current will increase charging time something like twofold, making a full charge something like 10 hours. As a comparison: 16A takes 3.5 hours, 10A 5 hours.
You will have to upgrade to a system that can supply at least 10A plus your household needs.

 

[maddogsetc]

I have no idea whether these are any good and I have no connection whatsoever with the company but I came across it when looking for something else and remembered this thread. Hope it's of help / interest

http://pv-plus.co.uk/solar-pv-panels/solar-car-ports/

 

[gwatpe]

My house has Solar battery inverter power supply as well as Solar Grid connected power. The quality of the power coming from either source is true sinewave. The battery inverter supply is a max 3.3kW, and has been the preferred electricity recharging source at home and this is the photo voltaic charging controller. It has to supply all the recharging power demands the car needs. The supplied 10A recharging cable works the same as if the car was connected to the grid. The battery inverter and the grid have the same electrical specifications and match the car needs. The only consideration I make is to only recharge for a few hours at any time. 1/4 to 1/2 a recharge usually. The house Lithium battery makes up the deficit that clouds make. I have recharged 7.5kWh in a single day. In Summer, fully recharging will be possible on some days. The car is a big consumer of electricity and you need a big solar array to fully meet recharging needs. My solar array has already paid for itself in supplied electricity, so now, the car recharging cost is a free bonus. Time will tell if the car battery works as well as the house [5 years so far and like the day first installed].