Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023

[PJmacgee]

For *any* planned longer trips with highway or rural road cruising, you'll want to drive in Normal until the battery charge drops to about 2/3, then switch to Save for the rest of the drive. When you arrive you can sneak around in EV (or Normal) mode in your destination area, and still hopefully have a nice 1/4 - 1/2 charge (for the return trip, if there's no charging overnight, like you said).

Anyway, that's how I'd do it. Main thing is Save is the best setting for long highway drives, and you don't want to leave the battery dead (always nice to have a little charge for in-town driving).

 

[littlescrote]

Main thing is Save is the best setting for long highway drives,

Save and Charge are the same, it's just the difference in battery levels. Save will use a bit, charge a bit. With Charge you can use a lot, charge a lot. If you're doing constant highway speed, there's no real difference in efficiency etc, just driver engagement.

 

[kpetrov]

It's wishful thinking that the battery will warm itself to normal state by using it - charging it at -20F (-30C).
The heat pump wont make a dent to preheating the vehicle as well.
Last winter I have read some stories regarding those new PHEVs without battery heaters that can't be even started cause the battery is too cold and refusing to turn the engine.

 

[nrayanov]

It's wishful thinking that the battery will warm itself to normal state by using it - charging it at -20F (-30C).
The heat pump wont make a dent to preheating the vehicle as well.
Last winter I have read some stories regarding those new PHEVs without battery heaters that can't be even started cause the battery is too cold and refusing to turn the engine.

I've read those, too. A couple of people stated the new one cannot be started when it's under -15C, which is quite common for the Canadian winter unless it's like Vancouver.

 

[Lon12]

Cold air is coming for much of North America this week. I still have not heard anything from Mitsubishi about fixing the heat pump -15ºC cutoff issue. Just yesterday the heat pump shut off without any warnings. So the cabin getting cold is the only indication and by then its too late to turn off the HVAC to try and stay warm.

 

[kpetrov]

Cold air is coming for much of North America this week. I still have not heard anything from Mitsubishi about fixing the heat pump -15ºC cutoff issue. Just yesterday the heat pump shut off without any warnings. So the cabin getting cold is the only indication and by then its too late to turn off the HVAC to try and stay warm.

What do you mean it will be too late to turn OFF the HVAC and try to stay warm!?
Probably you meant to tun it ON but it should be already ON if you were using the heat-pump.
BTW if one set the temperature to anything warm the engine should have been ruining at those -15ºC

 

[Lon12]

What do you mean it will be too late to turn OFF the HVAC and try to stay warm!?
Probably you meant to tun it ON but it should be already ON if you were using the heat-pump.
BTW if one set the temperature to anything warm the engine should have been ruining at those -15ºC

The car is nice and warm in the garage. EV mode lets you drive with the heat pump on just fine up to -15º. Then without warning when it hits -15º the heat pump turns off and the HVAC starts pumping cold air into the cabin. So yes, I want to turn off the HVAC before it cools the cabin off. But there are no warning messages to let me know. I just have to keep feeling the temperature of the vent air. On a quick 5 minute drive to the store I don't want to run the engine to preheat the block enough to heat the cabin. Lucky I have an EV to drive when it gets below -15ºC..... never thought I'd be saying that.

 

[kpetrov]

The car is nice and warm in the garage. EV mode lets you drive with the heat pump on just fine up to -15º. Then without warning when it hits -15º the heat pump turns off and the HVAC starts pumping cold air into the cabin. So yes, I want to turn off the HVAC before it cools the cabin off. But there are no warning messages to let me know. I just have to keep feeling the temperature of the vent air. On a quick 5 minute drive to the store I don't want to run the engine to preheat the block enough to heat the cabin. Lucky I have an EV to drive when it gets below -15ºC..... never thought I'd be saying that.

Well it is so simple then, once you don't like the air flow temperature you shut it off. It is like a half second action.
What kind of a warning you are looking for? There is ambient temp on the dash and you should be killing the pump even earlier cause it's just wasting energy and not producing any.
But then it comes the humidity and frost inside the vehicle next morning, so there are decisions and compromises to be made.

 

[BobK]

I was driving my 2023 in EV mode as the temperature was dropping and at about -7C and got a message that I needed to turn EV mode off if I wanted to maintain heat. Apparently the heat pump had hit its limit and the car needed the ICE to maintain heat. The car was warm and I didn't have far to go, so I left it in EV mode.

Still learning about the best cold weather practices. At the moment, in below freezing temps I start the car with my foot on the brake then switch to EV mode and set the chrome knob to ECO (if the roads allow, sometimes use Snow or even the Mud setting instead - which is fantastic in deep snow). This way the car starts the ICE immediately then goes about 4km (at 60km/h) before switching to EV for the rest of the trip. If I have it set the chrome knob to Normal instead of ECO, it still switches to EV, but occasionally turns the ICE on - i.e. when I accelerate . It takes fewer km for the ICE to turn off if I let the car warm up first. Will see how it goes as it gets colder.
My dealer says that they were told the the battery uses current heating in cold weather - so I'm giving the Mitsubishi engineers the benefit of the doubt and figure the car must be heating up and controlling the draw from the battery to create heat to the point that the battery can be safely used 100%. I always leave the car plugged in whatever the temp. Will be interesting to compare my battery life with others down the road.

 

[Lon12]

Well it is so simple then, once you don't like the air flow temperature you shut it off. It is like a half second action.
What kind of a warning you are looking for? There is ambient temp on the dash and you should be killing the pump even earlier cause it's just wasting energy and not producing any.
But then it comes the humidity and frost inside the vehicle next morning, so there are decisions and compromises to be made.

I would really like the car to either tell me it has shut off the heat pump or start the engine automatically when that happens. The temperature display on the dash does not show the instantaneous outside air temperature. It can show my garage temperature for the whole drive. The heat pump uses a different reading. The message that displays that you should cancel EV mode for more heat has nothing to do with the heat pump shutting off. That message seems very random.
It’s not a half second action. It takes time for the heating core to cool off enough for me to notice. Typically I’m running the windshield & foot heat. Not the facing vents.

 

[BobK]

I would really like the car to either tell me it has shut off the heat pump or start the engine automatically when that happens. The temperature display on the dash does not show the instantaneous outside air temperature. It can show my garage temperature for the whole drive. The heat pump uses a different reading. The message that displays that you should cancel EV mode for more heat has nothing to do with the heat pump shutting off. That message seems very random.
It’s not a half second action. It takes time for the heating core to cool off enough for me to notice. Typically I’m running the windshield & foot heat. Not the facing vents.

Does the heat pump actually shut off or is it just gradually becoming less efficient? My understanding is that the heat pump heats the engine coolant that then goes through the heater core to heat the cabin. So what I think you want is a monitor on the engine coolant temperature that would kick in the ICE at a preset low temperature where the heat pump becomes less effective.
Sometimes, in Normal mode, I find the car seems to behave as if this were already the case, but it doesn't seem to be consistent.

 

[Lon12]

Does the heat pump actually shut off or is it just gradually becoming less efficient? My understanding is that the heat pump heats the engine coolant that then goes through the heater core to heat the cabin. So what I think you want is a monitor on the engine coolant temperature that would kick in the ICE at a preset low temperature where the heat pump becomes less effective.
Sometimes, in Normal mode, I find the car seems to behave as if this were already the case, but it doesn't seem to be consistent.

The heat pump just shuts off. It is -30ºC here today. I could make an another video if you like. When I pull it out of the garage (which is above zero) it only takes about two minutes for it to shut off. In that example the engine coolant would not have time to cool off much below what it was sitting at in the garage.

 

[PHEV07]

Exactly the problem. There I can't find any information online yet. The sales manager is going for PHEV training this week and will pass along my questions. Hope someone can give us more details on the thermal management. I can't see Mitsubishi being able to change the EV power reduction software. They couldn't update the old BMU so I think we will be stuck with this forever. With most of the vehicles power being derived from the EV components I think folks will be quite shocked if they find themselves with a cold soaked battery. Mitsubishi obviously wants the battery to last the 10 year warranty period or longer so I totally understand why they would do this if the battery chemistry doesn't support cold temps.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that the Battery on the 2023, 2024 and now 2025 will last 10 years since the Engineers at Mitsubishi decided to do away with the Battery Heater that had worked very well with the 2018 to 2022 Models in North America.

Once the Battery Temperature drops down to -25'C apparently the Car Computer will not allow the starting of the ICE. Even if it did start, Warming up of the Battery by the Operation of the ICE will not occur.

So to me, it appears that thru Mitsubishi Motor's own stupidity, Mitsubishi themselves will cause damage to the battery for cars operating in Sub zero weathers of lower than -20'C.


By the way, -20'C was the temperature that the Battery Heating System was programed to kick in, on all 2018 to 2022 Models of PHEVs.

Andre

 

[PHEV07]

What does the 2018 PHEV manual say about this? To your point it would be interesting to know why this was introduced for the 2023 gen and not the previous, assuming that is the case. Maybe this is a safety feature or a design to increase battery life duration (biased wishful thinking here)?

Another thing you may wish to think about is how comparable your experiences with the 2018 PHEV was to the conditions for the 2023 PHEV. Did you ever leave your 2018 "cold soaked" and unplugged for that temperature as long as the 2023 PHEV was? It may be simply that your 2018 PHEV did not experience the same duration of being exposed to those temperature unplugged as the 2023 PHEV?

From my limited experience of the 2023 PHEV, I have not encountered this limitation yet, there may have been one stretch where the PHEV was close to sitting for 2 days unplugged in sub zero temps, but I don't recall the exact duration of the sit or temperature over that period specifically.

I used to own a 2018 then upgraded to a 2022 and can confirm that I used to leave either car, fully charged and unplugged for 30 days during the cold of winter with Temperatures dropping to below -30'C from mid January to mid February while we were away in Mecico and never once did the car ever fail to start on my return.

Prior to deciding to leave the car without being plugged in

I had seen, many times, icicles forming at the front of the driver rear tire when the outside Temperature reached lower than -20'C. This was the point that the Battery Heating Management System turned on the Internal Heater. Obviously to protect the Battery pack.

The 2023 to 2025 no long have the Internal Battery Heater installed. Why not? Is Mitsubishi no longer worried about damage to Lithium-Ion Batteries?

I think not but rather that the Engineers at Mitsubishi Motors really screwed up.

But to disregard the concerns of the owners of 2023 to 2025 is a gross dereliction of support and unlawful.

Patiently waiting for a successful resolution of the lass Action Suit.

These are great cars at temperatures above 0'C but should never have been sold to areas with colder Clients.

Many of us cannot move or havd Garages so we may have no choice but to look to other Manufacters for a PHEV of go to Pure EV. But for those that cannot afford a zpure EV may just need to go back to an ICE vehicle.

Mitsubishi really dropped the ball on the release and refusal to correct the Battery Heating Issues of the 2023 to 2023 Vehicles.

 

[PHEV07]

Yes. It is very different from the previous model. You can select EV mode after pressing the start button without your foot on the brake. Most of the time this "ACC" mode will also let you turn on the seat heat, steering wheel heat, HVAC, etc. Then when you start the car it stays in EV mode. When the engine starts on its own because of the low engine temperature it does not cancel EV mode like I think the old one did.

I guess the issue I have is that the car doesn’t let you know that it is turning the heat pump off or not even starting it. You only find out by how cold the interior is.
If I use the App to preheat the car it should tell me it can’t because of the low temperature.
If it turns off the pump while I’m driving let me know so I can burn some fuel to keep warm.

Another example of things that make you say “what?” Is the fact you can’t use the App to preheat the car unless the doors are locked. You send the request and it just fails with a message to read the manual for the many different reasons why it might fail. The App has the ability to lock the doors remotely. So why not just do that with the heat request or at least tell you that the doors are not locked?

I placed a temperature gauge in the driver side dash vent. I now can tell when the Heat Pump is producing any heat or not.



Pushed the prong into the vent and used a paper clamp to hold it in position.