Avoid ICE start up at car switch on in the cold

[elm70]

It is looking like that if I disable air circulation in the car ... OFF button in the A/C panel .. at the next start up I will have not engine cut it

This means ... using

Start Up procedure:
Pressing brake and START button
Switch to ECU
Activate Air circulation by pressing vent up (^)

Switch off procedure:
Switch off Air circulation, by pressing OFF
Switch off ... pressing the START button

In this way, it should avoid start ICE for most of cases ... unless it is really cold, in which cases ECU alone does not help to prevent staring ICE

PS: I'm thinking to programming the automatic heat before start my morning trip, this should also avoid to consume fuel, and use instead the battery for the heating job

 

[anko]

I think you are misinterpreting what you see.

It is not switching off the air flow, that stops the ICE from engaging. It is turning off the heater that does this. You can achieve the same by setting the temp to the minimum (15 degrees on European models).

The thing is, the car wants to create a comfortable atmosphere in a reasonable time. So, when the gap between actual interior temp and requested interior temp is 'too big' (say 7 degrees or so), the car decides that it will take too long to bridge the gap when it uses only the electric heater, so it engages the engine. Now, ECO is about changing the balance between comfort and energy consumption. So, when you select ECO, the car is willing to bridge a bigger gap between actual and requested temperature using just the electric heater. But this difference is just 2 or 3 degrees.

What will help a bit longer is this:

Set temperature to 15 deg C at the end of your trip.
Beginning of next trip, set it to 15.5 deg C and monitor energy consumption via MMCS.
Every time energy consumption by the heater goes down, increase 0.5 deg C.

BTW: The PHEV Box manipulates the actual interior temp sensor, making the car believe the interior temperature is at least 13 deg. This means you can set the heater to (iirc) 20 deg C without the ICE starting. But the box only does so after pressing ECO button. SO, it is still an issue. I am waiting / hoping for an update from vtechtuning that causes the box to do this always .....

 

[elm70]

Thanks for the info anko

What make you believe 15deg means no heating ?

Anyhow ... yes the ECO mode help only for gain 2 or 3 deg extra of difference between inside and outside ... so I will update the procedure above

Anyhow .. if air flow is off .. also heating is off .. and no ICE should start when the START botton is pressed, even if it is not in ECO mode (car always start in normal mode)

Problem is that it is not possible to drive without any internal ventilation, especially in winter, since the windows will soon get condensation, and it will block the visibility

I will see if 15deg is really consider as off ... or if heater is started when outside temperature is below zero

Finally ... I got one more prove that Japanese designers ... have a different brain then other EU designers ... just gone to change my setting in the car, ready for tomorrow morning ... and I discover that if I click on reduce temperature below 15deg ... the damned "design" in the car, decide to activate AIR CON

So many things have been design odd in this car ... it took me multiple attempts to learn how to engage cruise control, (after reading the manual) ... this in the BMW I never had to read anything, and I got intuitively after few seconds of usage ... same apply how odd is the navigation system, how disturbing is the exit pop up and POI in the motorway (not possible to disable it) ... Japanese designer don't now anything about how to make proper human intuitive interfaces ...

The fact that we need the "hacking" from vtech .. for have a proper EV mode ... it shows how odd are thinking Japanese designers ... make a 50km EV capable car . and get it ruined if the foot on gas goes 1mm above the small 1cm gas range ... it is ridiculous .. as well .. the 60kw limitation from battery is also odd ... in case of power need in the traffic .. this is normally a few seconds situation .. it will be better to allow 100kw from battery for few second and avoid to start the engine (immediate response and effective green .. vs ... delay and waste of fuel) ... only if foot is left on gas over 10 seconds .. then the engine could be started .. making a better experience

Another off thinking is the 12V lead acid battery .... so damned old technology and a waste of energy and weight ... on this .. I may contact vtech ... maybe he has idea how to replace the lead battery, and adding and additional 300V LiPo .. with a 12V converter for power the 12V line ... I can win 1kwh ... so +10% range ... and no waste on recharge an auto loosing LeadAcid battery

 

[anko]

After 3 years of winter driving, extensive OBDII debugging and monitoring and working closely together with vtechtuning, believe me .... 15 deg means heater off :mrgreen:

 

[Steepndeep]

Well I could not agree more with you elm70. The Japanese engineers have clearly missed out on how we the users want to use the car. I have emailed the Swedish importer but the seem uninterested in my feedback. I only want one thing, a button that stops the ICE from starting. How hard can it be??? But then again maybe it is the Japanese mentality to never ever agree that they have made a mistake? Please email the Polish importer and voice your concerns

 

[jaapv]

Thanks for the info anko

What make you believe 15deg means no heating ?

Anyhow ... yes the ECO mode help only for gain 2 or 3 deg extra of difference between inside and outside ... so I will update the procedure above

Anyhow .. if air flow is off .. also heating is off .. and no ICE should start when the START botton is pressed, even if it is not in ECO mode (car always start in normal mode)

Problem is that it is not possible to drive without any internal ventilation, especially in winter, since the windows will soon get condensation, and it will block the visibility

I will see if 15deg is really consider as off ... or if heater is started when outside temperature is below zero

Finally ... I got one more prove that Japanese designers ... have a different brain then other EU designers ... just gone to change my setting in the car, ready for tomorrow morning ... and I discover that if I click on reduce temperature below 15deg ... the damned "design" in the car, decide to activate AIR CON

So many things have been design odd in this car ... it took me multiple attempts to learn how to engage cruise control, (after reading the manual) ... this in the BMW I never had to read anything, and I got intuitively after few seconds of usage ... same apply how odd is the navigation system, how disturbing is the exit pop up and POI in the motorway (not possible to disable it) ... Japanese designer don't now anything about how to make proper human intuitive interfaces ...

The fact that we need the "hacking" from vtech .. for have a proper EV mode ... it shows how odd are thinking Japanese designers ... make a 50km EV capable car . and get it ruined if the foot on gas goes 1mm above the small 1cm gas range ... it is ridiculous .. as well .. the 60kw limitation from battery is also odd ... in case of power need in the traffic .. this is normally a few seconds situation .. it will be better to allow 100kw from battery for few second and avoid to start the engine (immediate response and effective green .. vs ... delay and waste of fuel) ... only if foot is left on gas over 10 seconds .. then the engine could be started .. making a better experience

Another off thinking is the 12V lead acid battery .... so damned old technology and a waste of energy and weight ... on this .. I may contact vtech ... maybe he has idea how to replace the lead battery, and adding and additional 300V LiPo .. with a 12V converter for power the 12V line ... I can win 1kwh ... so +10% range ... and no waste on recharge an auto loosing LeadAcid battery

If you want to default the aircon to "off" just press and hold the button for ten seconds. The 12V battery is just a small one, I doubt whether you could fit any serious 300V battery in. I suppose you could easily replace it by another type of battery I guess, provided it can be charged safely. You don't want a Dreamliner/Samsung type of problem.

 

[elm70]

If you want to default the aircon to "off" just press and hold the button for ten seconds. The 12V battery is just a small one, I doubt whether you could fit any serious 300V battery in. I suppose you could easily replace it by another type of battery I guess, provided it can be charged safely. You don't want a Dreamliner/Samsung type of problem.

Which button ? The off .. or the A/C button ?

It is not when I try to go below 15deg that A/C is getting on .. but it is when I switch form 15.5 to 15 that does this madness .. starting a/c when outside is 5deg ... only retarded engineers could program this

One more thing ... like the programming of the charging does not work on my car .. AT ALL

Also the programming of the heating does not

Odd thinking and free bugs ... is this the famous Japanese quality ????

I don't have the password for the WiFi .. other retarded feature of the car ... will have been enough to make a default password available after 10 car click .. and the force the end user to set one .. nope ... hard coded .. lazy retarded engineering .. that means a 2nd hand car in 99% of case will not have the password

Maybe the apps over wifi make miracles .. or maybe not .. since comments on Google Play store are really BAD

This car has only 1 smart thinking .. being PHEV with decent range ... the rest is pure design madness and free of charge bugs in the firmware

 

[jaapv]

The AC button.

The WiFi password is stored in Mitsubishi's records and can be retrieved by any dealer. This is much better that a user-set password, as that might be difficult to retrieve for a next owner.
The app is fine, but a bit tricky to connect. Again, any dealer will do it for you. In general this is a car that needs authorized dealer support for service and questions. In fact the selling dealer should ask for your phone and set it up at delivery.
You need to see to prioritizing WiFi connections on your phone after installing, as with any app that sets up its own network.

Programming the charging does work, but needs setting up with the manual in hand. I see little use beyond home charging during low tariff hours, though.
Programming the heating does work as well, but again needs the manual the first few times. Both are clearly "set and forget" features.

 

[elm70]

The AC button.

Thanks I will try

The WiFi password is stored in Mitsubishi's records and can be retrieved by any dealer. This is much better that a user-set password, as that might be difficult to retrieve for a next owner.
The app is fine, but a bit tricky to connect. Again, any dealer will do it for you. In general this is a car that needs authorized dealer support for service and questions. In fact the selling dealer should ask for your phone and set it up at delivery.
You need to see to prioritizing WiFi connections on your phone after installing, as with any app that sets up its own network.

Would not be more easy to simply show the password on the MMCS .. like for bluetooth pairing ?
And allow end user to switch on and off the wifi and change password from MMCS ?
Instead ... a password that is known by any car dealer is not safe by definition
As well .. this 10 and 20 time clicking procedure .. is sick from modern engineering point of view (ok somebody may argue that people can have PHEV with Wifi but without MMCS .. but it would be a sick car configuration)

Programming the charging does work, but needs setting up with the manual in hand. I see little use beyond home charging during low tariff hours, though.
Programming the heating does work as well, but again needs the manual the first few times. Both are clearly "set and forget" features.

Over the MMCS .. I set the 3 time zone ... assign one of the 3 per each day ... select in case of eating one of the 3 option (heat, defrost or A/C) ... what I can have done wrong with it ?

I know that if I set the charging time ... my charging got completely screwed up .. when I set the charging timer .. my charger is flashing all the time .. both when it is supposed to charge and as well when it is not supposed to charge .. as result .. I put a timer on the power line of my charger

Unfortunately ... I can't put any external device for activate the heating

 

[anko]

Be aware, turning on or off the A/C does not effect start of ICE as the A/C compressor is always driven by electricity.

 

[jaapv]

Hacking into it would only mean somebody could interfere with your heating or lights. What is the fun of that?

 

[elm70]

Hacking into it would only mean somebody could interfere with your heating or lights. What is the fun of that?

And open the door, and disable the alarm :shock:

There is an article that show how easy is to hack the WiFi of this PHEV

The writer suggest to disable WiFi for safety, waiting for Mitsubishi to improve the security by updating the firmware ...

 

[elm70]

Be aware, turning on or off the A/C does not effect start of ICE as the A/C compressor is always driven by electricity.

So .. with A/C on .. do I get more efficient heating in the car in winter ?

Never used A/C before in winter .. but on traditional car .. a/c is well known for suck more power from the ICE

Anyhow ... setting 15deg which forced AC on .... done before switch off the car .. apparently was making a surge in electric power consumption in my car .. per the INFO -> TRIP display on MMCS ...

 

[jaapv]

Well, you will at least have less misting up.

 

[jaapv]

Hacking into it would only mean somebody could interfere with your heating or lights. What is the fun of that?

And open the door, and disable the alarm :shock:

There is an article that show how easy is to hack the WiFi of this PHEV

The writer suggest to disable WiFi for safety, waiting for Mitsubishi to improve the security by updating the firmware ...

Well, even then. Where would they go from there? Over here, under pressure from insurance companies, many cars have additional alarm systems. On my car they would simply set off the Cobra alarm, would be unable to drive off because of the "ignition" lock and Bearlock on the steering, and should they manage to load it up and to carry it off they would get an unexpected visit from the police because of the Lojack tracking system.

BTW, they don't need the app to disable the alarm and unlock the car. Picking up the key signal is much simpler.

 

[Grigou]

After 3 years of winter driving, extensive OBDII debugging and monitoring and working closely together with vtechtuning, believe me .... 15 deg means heater off :mrgreen:

I can confirm that too, after only 10 months of winter driving (and 2 years of driving) :lol:

 

[elm70]

Hacking into it would only mean somebody could interfere with your heating or lights. What is the fun of that?

And open the door, and disable the alarm :shock:

There is an article that show how easy is to hack the WiFi of this PHEV

The writer suggest to disable WiFi for safety, waiting for Mitsubishi to improve the security by updating the firmware ...

Well, even then. Where would they go from there? Over here, under pressure from insurance companies, many cars have additional alarm systems. On my car they would simply set off the Cobra alarm, would be unable to drive off because of the "ignition" lock and Bearlock on the steering, and should they manage to load it up and to carry it off they would get an unexpected visit from the police because of the Lojack tracking system.

BTW, they don't need the app to disable the alarm and unlock the car. Picking up the key signal is much simpler.

Where I live , car get stolen often ... and this WiFi make the operation more easy

I had already one BMW disappearing inside Poland, "luckily" it was company car, so it was limited damage ... on BMW via OSB2 is as well very easy to take over the control ...

Better than retarded engineering from japan , what protect for thieves, is the less appealing market for spare parts between Mitsubishi and BMW .. less retarded engineering would also make the car more popular and more price effective

 

[anko]

Your car is Dutch right? So if it has an alarm at all it is not the factory alarm but aftermarket and it cannot be switched off via WiFi. Wifi hack is pretty useless for Dutch cars.

 

[elm70]

Your car is Dutch right? So if it has an alarm at all it is not the factory alarm but aftermarket and it cannot be switched off via WiFi. Wifi hack is pretty useless for Dutch cars.

Yes, my car is Dutch ... but I don't see any evidence of additional alarm ... I only got standard key, nothing else

BTW ... I disabled the WiFi ... the charge timer and heat timer got reset after I did this (only 1 wifi device was register to my car, according to the 2 beeps) .. and now ... just tested ... I can successfully program the heat of the car from the MMCS ... I guess ... there is a free bug kindly gifted from some Japanese engineer ... that if some setting is done over WiFI, then MMCS is getting useless ... I I think somebody else in this forum was reporting a similar problem too

Anyhow ... Quite impressive .. in the 10min of heat up ... with 8deg outside ... the car increase from 11 to 18 deg inside (I have a little voltage and temperature meter on the 12V plug)

Looking forward to get a warm car tomorrow for go to work

PS: It is looking like I'm going to lose 5km range using the heating ... I'm not sure I did not seen the fuel level going down before ... can anybody confirm that programming heating does not start the engine .. independently by outside temperature ?

 

[anko]

Pre heating does not start the engine. Regardless of how cold it is.