Australian heating

[maby]

....

I can imagine this is why they let A/C power consumption impact predicted EV range but not heater power consumption.

Are you sure about this? I must admit to not taking that much notice of the estimated EV range, but I was reasonably sure that I had seen it increase if the heating is turned off...

 

[NAPpy]

Had another play, turned on the heater and lost six kilometers from the guessogauge as soon as it kicked in but it was only drawing 3kW this time.

Wife has noticed a drop in EV since it has got colder, I told her to rug up and toughen up :mrgreen:

 

[anko]

I am pretty sure that:

A/C only impacts EV range
A/C ic/w heater impacts EV range
Heater only does not impact EV range

That is, on the gauge. Real life is a different story, of course.

 

[NAPpy]

Heater does impact range, I saw it drop 6km when I turned on the heater to a low heat.

NAPpy

 

[gwatpe]

Have just endured sub zero conditions while camping at Katoomba in the Blue mountains west of Sydney. The poor quality of the instrumentation means that I no longer worry about the predictive ranges displayed. Last time I looked at the panels and used the AirCon, noticed about a 10% reduction in the displayed EV range.

here is a pic of the morning frost.

The ambient was about -3C

Very cold without gloves.

PHEV fired up the ICE [appropriate] to supply heating needs.

 

[ufo]

Just out of curiosity, when ICE comes on just to supply heat, does it also charge the battery assuming the battery is not full?
Also does ICE vary the engine speed depending on accelarator input while kicked in to supply heating as it does in save and charge mode?

 

[anko]

Heater does impact range, I saw it drop 6km when I turned on the heater to a low heat.

With A/C turned off (button with snowflake)? When you had A/C on "the last time", just starting the fan will turn it on again.

 

[anko]

Just out of curiosity, when ICE comes on just to supply heat, does it also charge the battery assuming the battery is not full?
Also does ICE vary the engine speed depending on accelarator input while kicked in to supply heating as it does in save and charge mode?

It does not charg the battery !!! Unless you hit Charge mode. Also, it will not engage in parallel mode when you go over 40 mph. Again unless you hit Charge mode.

It will vary in speed, as it will try to not use any more power from the battery for driving.

But it will also still run the electric heater. So the engine may actually quit, even before it is warm enough to actually assist the electric heater :twisted:

 

[anko]

PHEV fired up the ICE [appropriate] to supply heating needs.

Nice picture. Just out of curiosity: why did you think it was appropriate for the engine to be fired up?

 

[ufo]

Just out of curiosity, when ICE comes on just to supply heat, does it also charge the battery assuming the battery is not full?
Also does ICE vary the engine speed depending on accelarator input while kicked in to supply heating as it does in save and charge mode?

It does not charg the battery !!! Unless you hit Charge mode. Also, it will not engage in parallel mode when you go over 40 mph. Again unless you hit Charge mode.

It will vary in speed, as it will try to not use any more power from the battery for driving.

But it will also still run the electric heater. So the engine may actually quit, even before it is warm enough to actually assist the electric heater :twisted:

Thanks for the info, it never happened to me so I was wondering.

 

[ufo]

Heater does impact range, I saw it drop 6km when I turned on the heater to a low heat.

With A/C turned off (button with snowflake)? When you had A/C on "the last time", just starting the fan will turn it on again.

Yes that's correct. But if you don't have A/C on when you turned off climate control and later when you turn the fan on, A/C does not kick in. Then if the set temperature of the climate control is higher than ambient temperature, electric heating kicks in if not no heating it just circulates air in the cabin if you set it to circulate or sucks air from outside and pumps it in if you set it to non-circulation.

 

[NAPpy]

Heater does impact range, I saw it drop 6km when I turned on the heater to a low heat.

With A/C turned off (button with snowflake)? When you had A/C on "the last time", just starting the fan will turn it on again.

A/C off both times.

 

[greendwarf]

Have just endured sub zero conditions while camping at Katoomba in the Blue mountains west of Sydney. The poor quality of the instrumentation means that I no longer worry about the predictive ranges displayed. Last time I looked at the panels and used the AirCon, noticed about a 10% reduction in the displayed EV range.

here is a pic of the morning frost.

The ambient was about -3C

Very cold without gloves.

PHEV fired up the ICE [appropriate] to supply heating needs.

Tell me about it. We were there in August '12 and found you tough Aussies don't believe in double glazing - brrr!

 

[NAPpy]

Wife was complaining how cold it was this morning 10c so I did a pre-heat for 10 minutes via the app before she jumped into it. 2.26kW started being drawn from the grid immediately but this did go down just before she got into it.

NAPpy

 

[anko]

Perhaps you mean: "when she opened the door"? Opening a door terminates pre-heating.

 

[NAPpy]

No, the current draw dropped off. I can only assume it was as the cabin got towards temperature.

NAPpy

 

[anko]

I believe the heater will run for asking as you program it to run: 10, 20 or 30 minutes. Or until you cancel it or open a door. Regardless of set or achieved temperature. There is no thermostat involved in pre-heating. I always set my heater to 15 degrees when I park my car in the evening and nonetheless, preheating doesn't care. It will convert the car into a sauna if I allow it to.

 

[gwatpe]

PHEV fired up the ICE [appropriate] to supply heating needs.

Nice picture. Just out of curiosity: why did you think it was appropriate for the engine to be fired up?

It was icy, so the ICE helped out with heating needs.

A few comments in last few posts, will be checking next time it is cold.

This would include if some battery recharging occurs when ICE is ON for heating needs. My PHEV powers ON in SAVE mode, so this may change operation to what typically others see. ICE came ON when window demisting was selected, and this was activated after PHEV was already powered ON.

 

[anko]

"Normally" (in Europe?) the engine may turn on for heating purposes (even in models with an electric heater, as it can provide heat faster and more efficiently than the electric heater) but not for A/C purposes as the A/C totally depends on electricity and if there is sufficient SOC, why would the engine power up? Maybe, this behavior changes when you (auto)engage Save mode as Save mode aims at maintaining SOC. So, perhaps the engine is started to compensate for the loss of SOC caused by running A/C.

You said it was appropriate for the engine to start because it was cold. What I meant is, the trip you were going to make, was that outside or well inside EV range? Had it been well inside EV range, even taking into account SOC consumed by the heater, perhaps you would have decided it was inappropriate for the engine to be involved as it results in an unnecessary cold start and a waste of fossil fuels (let's not forget, if it is not too cold, the engine could actually be stopped before adding heat to the interior, because it could be caught up by the electric heater). Same when the engine starts for demisting, which if seems to do in your case.

I now realize the above is an odd question for you: for you, almost every trip is outside EV range, because you aim at maintaining SOC for as long as you can. You seldom run in to situations where you try to prevent the engine from running. Because you value your SOC more than most of us. Would it be fair to say: you bought a PHEV, when an HEV would have been more suitable for your needs and now you try to drive the PHEV as if it was an HEV?

If I had bought an HEV, for sure I would want the engine to start up for heating purposes as it would be stupid to use valuable SOC for that.

BTW: When the engine starts for heating purposes, it runs truly idle (low fuel consumption at low revs) as long as you are parked. It does not charge. When you start driving, the engine provides enough electricity for driving, but still it will not charge. Only when I hit the Charge button, it will start charging. I don't know what it will do when you engage Save mode. I expect the same, but when the engine runs for heating purposes, the electric heater (when present) will also be engaged. So, SOC will drop. And, like suggested before, the engine might kick in every now and then to recover lost SOC.

BTW2: When the engine starts for heating purposes (with sufficient SOC still available), the car will not engage parallel mode when you hit 40 MPH. Again, unless you hit Charge.

 

[gwatpe]

The PHEV gives me EV driving for local drives, and HE driving as well. The P component allows me to recharge for free for local needs. I actually get to use all aspects of this versatile vehicle. The Mitsi would be a waste to only drive as an EV and if I only wanted EV, I would probably save up for a TESLSA, that I hope to get to test drive as soon as the SUV becomes available. Presently my needs are not met by the limited range and recharging needs of presently available EV's where I live. I do my bit in other ways, like giving back to the grid twice the energy that I pull from it, [presently 2kWh/day for a family of 3], in Autumn and in Summer it is like 4 times more again. To put in perspective, a typical individual consumes 7kWh on average per day from the grid here, even without recharging their car at home. Getting a bit off topic now.

BTW the best demisting of the windscreen requires heat and low humidity. Whatever gets the job done I can accept. My PHEV is parked in a garage at home so will need to wait for the next road trip to check for charging and window demisting in SAVE mode.