Amateur (Ham) Radio Installation.

[user 2676]

We are planning to buy an Outlander in the near future and I'm already considering the essential topic of installing an amateur radio transceiver- probably either my IC2725 (currently installed in our CRV) or my Kenwood TM-V71 or perhaps a Wouxun Quad bander. Which ever I decide on, it will be a remote head unit.

I've already decided to invest in roof bars to mount the antenna(s) rather than drill holes etc. and will probably mount the main unit in the shallow tray under the floor of the boot/trunk- I believe the 12V battery is near here on the left looking into the boot/trunk area.

As always with modern cars, the problems are EMI and where to mount the head unit - designers just don't leave space for essentials like amateur radio!

I can't be the only amateur who has faced this problem so I'm looking for advice from those who have 'been there and done it', please.

Also, advice on any EMI issues, please. My CRV gave no problems what-so-ever, in fact none of my previous vehicles have, other than some alternator 'whine' on an Espace.

Thank you and 73

Brian
G8OSN/W8OSN
www.g8osn.net

 

[maby]

I'm a G8 - and it's not something that I would contemplate! The risk of EMI seems far too great, and the current capacity of the 12v system is too low to support a decent transmit power... I have operated a 5w VHF handie from inside the car and that didn't cause any problems - that is as far as I would go.

 

[user 2676]

I'm a G8 - and it's not something that I would contemplate! The risk of EMI seems far too great, and the current capacity of the 12v system is too low to support a decent transmit power... I have operated a 5w VHF handie from inside the car and that didn't cause any problems - that is as far as I would go.

Surely the 12V battery has a reasonable capacity and there is a conventional alternator to recharge it? With the transceiver wired to the battery (via a relay and fused of course), would you still expect issues?

I wouldn't run a transceiver from a normal accessory socket.

73
Brian

 

[maby]

I'm a G8 - and it's not something that I would contemplate! The risk of EMI seems far too great, and the current capacity of the 12v system is too low to support a decent transmit power... I have operated a 5w VHF handie from inside the car and that didn't cause any problems - that is as far as I would go.

Surely the 12V battery has a reasonable capacity and there is a conventional alternator to recharge it? With the transceiver wired to the battery (via a relay and fused of course), would you still expect issues?

I wouldn't run a transceiver from a normal accessory socket.

73
Brian

No, the main power circuits of the PHEV are at something like 500v. The 12v system runs on a battery that is little bigger than a motor-cycle battery and exists primarily to get the car's computer systems booted up. There is no alternator in the conventional sense - the car has an AC generator that outputs something like 500v and the 12v circuit is kept charged via a voltage reduction circuit driven from the high voltage bus. It has the capacity to run the low voltage components built into the car - headlights, audio system, wipers etc., but I have not seen any definitive statement of how much spare capacity it has. I guess you could safely draw enough power to run a 25w FM transceiver, but I would not be happy trying to run 100w of SSB on it.

 

[user 2676]

I'm a G8 - and it's not something that I would contemplate! The risk of EMI seems far too great, and the current capacity of the 12v system is too low to support a decent transmit power... I have operated a 5w VHF handie from inside the car and that didn't cause any problems - that is as far as I would go.

Surely the 12V battery has a reasonable capacity and there is a conventional alternator to recharge it? With the transceiver wired to the battery (via a relay and fused of course), would you still expect issues?

I wouldn't run a transceiver from a normal accessory socket.

73
Brian

No, the main power circuits of the PHEV are at something like 500v. The 12v system runs on a battery that is little bigger than a motor-cycle battery and exists primarily to get the car's computer systems booted up. There is no alternator in the conventional sense - the car has an AC generator that outputs something like 500v and the 12v circuit is kept charged via a voltage reduction circuit driven from the high voltage bus. It has the capacity to run the low voltage components built into the car - headlights, audio system, wipers etc., but I have not seen any definitive statement of how much spare capacity it has. I guess you could safely draw enough power to run a 25w FM transceiver, but I would not be happy trying to run 100w of SSB on it.

Thank you. I was only planning on running under 50W, if that- I generally run 25W or so.

I assume there isn't a conventional starter motor then and, if the main (traction) batteries are discharged you can't start the car? That is rather 'disappointing', we did consider a Tesla but dismissed it because once the traction batteries were discharged it was useless. We assumed the Outlander could start on the 12V battery and run on petrol.

73
Brian

 

[maby]

...


Thank you. I was only planning on running under 50W, if that- I generally run 25W or so.

I assume there isn't a conventional starter motor then and, if the main (traction) batteries are discharged you can't start the car? That is rather 'disappointing', we did consider a Tesla but dismissed it because once the traction batteries were discharged it was useless. We assumed the Outlander could start on the 12V battery and run on petrol.

73
Brian

Well, the PHEV certainly can run on petrol, but the high voltage traction battery is the power source for starting. The 12v circuit is only there for lighting and the computers and there is neither a low voltage starter motor nor a low voltage generator. People that have managed to flatten the 12v battery have successfully jump=started the car from a dozen torch batteries.

You certainly would not want to fully discharge the traction battery - that is a lithium pack with a replacement cost of several thousands of pounds which would be seriously damaged by being fully discharged. The battery management system keeps it in the range of about 20% to 80% charged - as is common for most electric vehicles - in order to maximise the life expectancy. If you manage to get it down to the lower threshold, it will cut drive to the car with the charge level still above something like 15% in order to avoid permanent damage and you will not be able to start the car - including the petrol engine - without plugging it up to the mains for a while.

 

[maby]

P.S. it is worth pointing out that the battery management system will not allow you to run the traction battery flat while there is petrol in the tank. As the charge level approaches the lower threshold, it will start the petrol engine and this will both provide drive and partially recharge the traction battery. While there is fuel in the tank, it will run as a petrol car and retain plenty of charge for a few engine starts. If you do run out of petrol, then it will go into a "battery protection mode" with reduced power in an attempt to give you a chance to get to a filling station. But, before the charge level gets down to a point where the battery could be damaged, the car will stop and refuse to start again until you have either added fuel, or plugged it up for an hour or two.

 

[pphilbro]

Hi just to put my 2 cents into here,

The PHEV is made to modern standards, including RFI generation and tolerance to RFI and it has even been marketed to emergency services is some countries (that use multiple transmitters).

It also seems to have extensive shielding of important components in the traction system, and I would be surprised if this could be compromised by a 100w HF or VHF transmitter correctly installed and loaded.

The 12 volt system has a 50AH battery, and is supported by an converter from the HV battery of unknown capacity. However, all of the "house" functions of the car, including blowers, radiator fans, rear window heater, headlights, infact all electrical devices excluding the AC compressor and traction motors are supplied from this source.

I would think the charging capacity would be similar to a normal car of this size, 80 to 120 amps.

A HF transceiver using 10 amps or so is unlikely to overload the 12v system.

BTW the engine is started by the HV traction battery which is protected from being discharged lower than around 20%. However the car cannot be "started" if the 12v battery is flat.

Have fun with the PHEV!

Paul VK5PC

 

[HHL]

We are planning to buy an Outlander in the near future and I'm already considering the essential topic of installing an amateur radio transceiver- probably either my IC2725 (currently installed in our CRV) or my Kenwood TM-V71 or perhaps a Wouxun Quad bander. Which ever I decide on, it will be a remote head unit.

I've already decided to invest in roof bars to mount the antenna(s) rather than drill holes etc. and will probably mount the main unit in the shallow tray under the floor of the boot/trunk- I believe the 12V battery is near here on the left looking into the boot/trunk area.

As always with modern cars, the problems are EMI and where to mount the head unit - designers just don't leave space for essentials like amateur radio!

I can't be the only amateur who has faced this problem so I'm looking for advice from those who have 'been there and done it', please.

Also, advice on any EMI issues, please. My CRV gave no problems what-so-ever, in fact none of my previous vehicles have, other than some alternator 'whine' on an Espace.

Thank you and 73

Brian
G8OSN/W8OSN
http://www.g8osn.net

I have an Icom ID800H installed. Used for the 2 years I had the car with no problems. Not much chance to flatten the aux battery really unless you try hard. I have the timer enabled to turn the radio off after a couple of hours. The radio can run 50W on VHF, but I usually set it to 15, no adverse effects to or from the radio in my experience. The charger which runs off the traction battery applies 14.5V to the aux as soon as you press the start button, so it recharges fairly quickly if required. The power drawn from the traction battery is of course negligible.
One thing I have found when camping and running a fridge, if you leave the car in ready mode in order to keep the aux battery topped up, the continuous power drawn from the traction battery is around 2-300W, so over a 24hr period you will run it down. Not a very efficient way to run a fridge

VK2HL

 

[user 2676]

I have an Icom ID800H installed. Used for the 2 years I had the car with no problems. Not much chance to flatten the aux battery really unless you try hard. I have the timer enabled to turn the radio off after a couple of hours. The radio can run 50W on VHF, but I usually set it to 15, no adverse effects to or from the radio in my experience. The charger which runs off the traction battery applies 14.5V to the aux as soon as you press the start button, so it recharges fairly quickly if required. The power drawn from the traction battery is of course negligible.
One thing I have found when camping and running a fridge, if you leave the car in ready mode in order to keep the aux battery topped up, the continuous power drawn from the traction battery is around 2-300W, so over a 24hr period you will run it down. Not a very efficient way to run a fridge

VK2HL

Thank you for your responses.

Can I ask where and how you've mounted the head (front panel) unit of your radio, please?

73
Brian

 

[HHL]

I have an Icom ID800H installed. Used for the 2 years I had the car with no problems. Not much chance to flatten the aux battery really unless you try hard. I have the timer enabled to turn the radio off after a couple of hours. The radio can run 50W on VHF, but I usually set it to 15, no adverse effects to or from the radio in my experience. The charger which runs off the traction battery applies 14.5V to the aux as soon as you press the start button, so it recharges fairly quickly if required. The power drawn from the traction battery is of course negligible.
One thing I have found when camping and running a fridge, if you leave the car in ready mode in order to keep the aux battery topped up, the continuous power drawn from the traction battery is around 2-300W, so over a 24hr period you will run it down. Not a very efficient way to run a fridge

VK2HL

Thank you for your responses.

Can I ask where and how you've mounted the head (front panel) unit of your radio, please?

73
Brian

The head unit of the ID800 is very light and small, I mounted it with velcro on the dash below the temperature control (RH side).
The radio is in the boot on the LH side wheel cover. The remote cable is just long enough to reach.
My friend went to a bit more trouble and mounted it in the tray underneath the boot floor.
He also fitted a nudge bar for the antenna (quite a feat) and as a matter of interest it is pretty well impossible to find a grommet in the firewall to put any cables through.......

And, as another poster noted, they went to a lot of trouble in this car to make it EMI proof!
Nothing seems to get in our out.

 

[Bob]

I have a Yeasu FTM-400XDE installed. The main body of the radio is attached with high strength double sided tape to the side of the centre console with it's mounting bracket, I decided the space under the rear floor was too shallow to allow adequate cooling. The control unit is fitted on top of the dash above the centre display with the supplied mount attached by the supplied double sided pad. The 12v battery is 45AH and will cope with 20 Watts output but digital draws a heavier current so I don't use it with the car switched off I did run the 12v battery down to 11v the first time I used digital, but I have never used 50W. The aerial is mounted with a home made stainless steel bracket to a roof bar. I have had no EMC problems either way to date.

 

[user 2883]

Hi all,

Hoping to revive this thread a bit...I am looking to install an Elecraft KX3/KXPA-100 setup in the PHEV...I think I have a good solution for the rig and the amp (amp currently looks to be headed for the "hole" by the rear hatch opposite the subwoofer) but I'm flummoxed by where to put antennas. I have a query into MMNA about the tint in the side glass as a through-glass antenna would be fine for the 2m transverter output, but for HF/6m I need to mount something more substantial. In my last vehicle (Ford Escape Hybrid) I used a lip mount on the rear hatch but this hatch has the glass all the way to the edge so I don't see that working.

The other thought I had was the roof rail but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve having the drag-inducing crossbars installed all the time.

Ideas?

73 de AD7OG

 

[user 2676]

Hi all,

Hoping to revive this thread a bit...I am looking to install an Elecraft KX3/KXPA-100 setup in the PHEV...I think I have a good solution for the rig and the amp (amp currently looks to be headed for the "hole" by the rear hatch opposite the subwoofer) but I'm flummoxed by where to put antennas. I have a query into MMNA about the tint in the side glass as a through-glass antenna would be fine for the 2m transverter output, but for HF/6m I need to mount something more substantial. In my last vehicle (Ford Escape Hybrid) I used a lip mount on the rear hatch but this hatch has the glass all the way to the edge so I don't see that working.

The other thought I had was the roof rail but I don't see a solution that doesn't involve having the drag-inducing crossbars installed all the time.

Ideas?

73 de AD7OG

I've still not installed my radio- the antenna has proven to be a sticking point for me to.

I've just about decided that cross bars are the only option. Thule make some low profile ones for the Outlander. They look similar to the OEM ones but lower and black- ideal for my black vehicle.

73
Brian
G8OSN/W8OSN

 

[user 2883]

For the amusement of those here, the email I got back from MMNA was "Don't install anything or we'll void your warranty" and when I replied that would be a violation of US law they came back with "we can't answer technical questions, ask your dealer"

Disappointing, yes. Surprising, not very...