Actual cost to charge

[thegurio]

Hi everyone, I am looking at a PHEV, and am weighing up the exorbitant premium we have to pay here in Australia for it...


What I want to know is the approx cost to charge the battery from empty to full, assuming it costs $0.16 per kWh to charge something.

So far I have come up with the following calculations and assumptions...

12kwh battery
5 hours charging

So therefore 12 X 5 X 0.16= $9.60. Correct?

Assuming $9.60 and about 50 klms from a charge i come up with about $20 per 100 kilometre, which doesn't actually make it much cheaper than my CX7 at the moment which uses about 11.5-12l/100!

Please tell me I have this wrong and it's cheaper...

 

[pjvik]

You do not need the time it takes in your calculation.

12kWh x 0,16 $/kWh= 1,92 $

This should quite cheap compared to a petrol or diesel powered car.

 

[thegurio]

Thanks for your reply pjvik. The 5 hours I have used in my calculations are what it says in the brochure I have. Is that not right? So long as I get the 50-60 kilometres out of a charge I'd be happy to make it shorter...

 

[pjvik]

How long time it take to charge the battery depends on how many Amperes you can charge with.
10 Amperes approx. 5 hours.
16 Amperes approx. 3 ½ hours.
The cable we got from Mitsubishi is a 10 amperes cable. We have changed this to an 16 amperes.

The cost of the charging is the same, but the more amperes you can charge with reduces the charging time.

 

[jaapv]

Max charge is 9.7 kW, not 12, as the car will always retain about 20% of battery charge to prolong battery life. And the time has nothing to do with it. You do not charge kWh-s, that is a measure of capacity. You charge kilowatts. So the cost is 9.7 x 0.16 = 1.55 $
On the other side of the equation you would have to be very lucky to get 50 Kms. 40 is more realistic, and 30-35 if temperatures drop below 6 or 7 Centigrade.

 

[paa451843]

Don`t mix up Power (Watt or kW) with Energy (kWh).
The calculation is right but you always pays for energy (kWh)

You can`t charge the battery with 9.7 kW, max charge is 3,68 kW (230 V x 16 Amps). But you can charge 9,7 kWh and it takes (theoretical witout losses) with 16 Amps and 230 V about 2,7 hours (9,7/3,63)

Depending on your tariff you might pay an additionally fee for instant power, basically for reducing gridoverload.

The car retain about 20% of the energy in the battery also because the ICE have no traditionally starter, the generator starts the ICE with energy from the main battery. So with a flat main battery you can`t drive at all.

 

[Fragge]

Actually, the internal charger in the OPI is only 3,3kw so even if you have a 16A charger it only draws around 13-14A.

 

[Uno78]

When i check my analogue power meter at home, it charges at around 2 KW/hr, so +/-10 KW to charge from empty to full is probably correct.

21st of March was the last i filled the petrol tank, I´ve just done 2000km and got around 2/5 left on the petrol tank (this includes one longer drive 220km roundtrip). I´ve never managed more than 42km on one charge, but we normally don´t do more than 35km total driving on a normal day. Hope to make it to the 21st of June

It´s brilliant for what i need it to do, and cheap pr/km.

 

[Goldie]

We have changed this to an 16 amperes.

Hi pjvik.
What are the details of your upgrade to 16 amps.
I have put a 20 amp line back to the main board but have the 15 amp wall plug.
As I don't get the vehicle till early June so I am not sure how it will go yet.
Regards
Goldie

 

[pjvik]

With the 16 amp charger it takes much shorter time to charge the battery.
Unfortunatelly there were a systematic fault on our 16 amp cable so we had to return it.

 

[Johnv]

The 12kw battery would cost 12*0.16 = $1.92 however because of efficiency, as it takes 5 hours at 15amps (5*(15*230))) =17kw was used which = 17*0.16 = $2.76 to fully charge from empty.

Regards Johnv

 

[biosci]

"The 12kw battery would cost 12*0.16 = $1.92 however because of efficiency, as it takes 5 hours at 15amps (5*(15*230))) =17kw was used which = 17*0.16 = $2.76 to fully charge from empty."

Actually, this PHEV limits discharges to ~70-75% of the capacity of the 12KW battery pack so that a full re-charge puts only ~9KW of energy back into the batteries.

If one then assumes that the charging process (inverters & battery resistance) is about 85% efficient, a full re-charge will take a maximum of ~10.6KW from the power grid.

so at $.16/KW, a full charge would be closer to $1.70

 

[user 221]

"The 12kw battery would cost 12*0.16 = $1.92 however because of efficiency, as it takes 5 hours at 15amps (5*(15*230))) =17kw was used which = 17*0.16 = $2.76 to fully charge from empty."

Actually, this PHEV limits discharges to ~70-75% of the capacity of the 12KW battery pack so that a full re-charge puts only ~9KW of energy back into the batteries.

If one then assumes that the charging process (inverters & battery resistance) is about 85% efficient, a full re-charge will take a maximum of ~10.6KW from the power grid.

so at $.16/KW, a full charge would be closer to $1.70

That seems about right. I've measured around the same numbers from my wall socket when charging from empty to full.

 

[thegurio]

Thanks everyone.

So it seems that the common consensus is that it's under $2 a charge. For me that would happen most days during the week, and sometimes on the weekend.

Does anyone on here do a mix of 60/80/100 sections about 30-35 k's from where they work/play on a regular basis to give me an idea of the running costs? I'm assuming from what I can gather it'll be about 7-8 l/100k's with that kind of run? What impact does a ladder - or something like a box - have on consumption?

Sorry for the questions, but it don't drop 45k on Aspire with out asking a lot of them lol

 

[jaapv]

That is exactly the way I use it on a daily basis, with an occasional longer run. During the week I would normally use 1 liter/ 300 km, and only because I use the series hybrid mode sometimes for a traffic light sprint. Otherwise it would use no petrol at all. On the motorway driving at a steady 120 KpH withe the battery hovering in the midrange and using "Save" expect about 8 L/100 Km.
If you start pushing it, driving faster and using the windscreen wipers, heating, AC, lights etc expect it to drop to 10 L./100 Km. Put a heavy caravan on, Skibox, drive Autobahn and hills, it will go down to 12L/100 Km.
The laws of Physics still rule.

 

[thegurio]

That is exactly the way I use it on a daily basis, with an occasional longer run. During the week I would normally use 1 liter/ 300 km, and only because I use the series hybrid mode sometimes for a traffic light sprint. Otherwise it would use no petrol at all. On the motorway driving at a steady 120 KpH withe the battery hovering in the midrange and using "Save" expect about 8 L/100 Km.
If you start pushing it, driving faster and using the windscreen wipers, heating, AC, lights etc expect it to drop to 10 L./100 Km. Put a heavy caravan on, Skibox, drive Autobahn and hills, it will go down to 12L/100 Km.
The laws of Physics still rule.

So by that I would expect you also charge at work? I unfortunately don't get that luxury most days because we have a very closed minded government, but that another argument for another day... At that rate I assume it will go the first 40 or so k's on electric, and then the other 30-50 on 'charge' mode so overall it shouldn't be too bad?

I'm actually taking one home next weekend to see what it's like to live with, and most importantly fuel economy, and exactly what it would be like on my 'normal' run, because if it doesn't have a 3 in front of it, or preferably 2l/100 it's not really an option. The whole point of this so to spend less money a week, not the same or more.

Caravan and skybox are another matter and I'm willing to accept the higher penalty for putting them on as I don't do that every week, but as for doing 110/120, hills, air conditioning, sprinting from the lights etc. that's what happens to me all but every day and something that I obviously need to put into the equation.

 

[thegurio]

So for those who care, I was watching the power like a hawk last night lol, and from what I can work out, it's about $1-130 for a full charge here in Hobart.

 

[Goldie]

So for those who care, I was watching the power like a hawk last night lol, and from what I can work out, it's about $1-130 for a full charge here in Hobart.

I am in Bendigo Victoria and my off peak electricity rate is 16 cents per kwh.
A full charge is taking about 3.5 hours to bring it up to about 51 kms EV range
From a small trip of about 57 kms yesterday (Monday) I got:
3.5 Lt/100 with EV driving at 72% EV 9.2 kwh/100km
I had the heater on for about 30 kms and it was at night. I guess the lights run from the drive battery.
The bit of petrol used in this short trip say 20 kms on petrol and 37 on electrons (this is what I seem to be getting when running the heater and highway riding with lights on).
So my guess to recharge for this trip would be: 10 kwhs (approx) at 16 cents = $1.60
And petrol at $1.47 for 20kms = About $1.00
So this trip of 57 kms cost $1.60 + $1.00 = $2.60

I am not sure if this is good or not yet. But if I add the fun to drive this vehicle as a cost of $5.00, I am in front.

I should add I have been noting my electricity use by the hour for the last 3 months. My house has a daily use (winter) of about 8 kwhs before I got the Outlander. Since I have been charging it, my use has gone up 10 kwh to about 18 to 20 kwhs each day. But this is cheaper than petrol. Yes I do have solar panels but they are not part of this costing.
Regards

 

[david1972]

21st of March was the last i filled the petrol tank, I´ve just done 2000km and got around 2/5 left on the petrol tank

^^^^^^^^I'm loving this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Uno78]

21st of March was the last i filled the petrol tank, I´ve just done 2000km and got around 2/5 left on the petrol tank

^^^^^^^^I'm loving this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know, it´s magic!
I ended up refilling on the 19th of June, 37 litres after 2537km. That averaged around 1.45l/100km (162 mpg)
In Norway I pay roughly 1.2-1.5 USD to charge the battery from empty to full. Cost of petrol is around 2.3-2.5 USD. I reckon compared to a normal petrol SUV, my cost is around 1/7 pr KM of the cost without hybrid.