4wd - Open differential on the front and rear axles??

[sas1]

I tried to drive down a steep dirt track and became stranded near the top on a tree root. Two diagonal wheels had contact with the solid ground and two diagonal wheels were in the air. The two non grounded wheels spun without any braking or locking. I was very disappointed as I believed that the PHEV with its super all wheel control would brake spinning wheels as it does in the pajero and normal outlanders.

The car was on 3/4 battery full and the 4wd lock on. the ICE came on with my exertions to free the car.

This means that the PHEV is virtually and open diff car and care needs to be taken to drive within its limitations.

Some passing cyclists pushed the car free. The car is not quite as impressive as I thought.

Am I correct?

 

[jaapv]

Did you disable Stability Control?

 

[sas1]

I did not disable stability control. Would that have made a difference?

 

[Trex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WL-csch2rg

At about 26 sec into this video diagonal wheels are in air and Phev keeps going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIcsem1MEZY

But at about 2min 30sec in this video it show the Phev stopped and petrol motor revving and then getting going after a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4jC2GCZpI

At about 3min 40secs again diagonal wheels off ground and spinning and keeping going after awhile.


Regards Trex.

 

[jaapv]

I did not disable stability control. Would that have made a difference?

Possibly.

 

[gwatpe]

Part of the 4WD limits seem to be associated by the lack of suspension travel. I have only used 4WD so far in sand dunes, and steep inclines with ruts. Not ventured into deep water or played in the mud or snow. Left the buttons at defaults and just engaged the 4WD lock button. All was good.

4WD is very subjective and 2 identical vehicles can perform completely differently depending on where a driver places the vehicle to negotiate an obstacle.

I was a member of an LJ50 Suzuki 4WD club back in the day and was never bogged on any club trips. On these trips with up to a dozen other vehicles before me, sometimes all vehicles were bogged at some time. Never had LSDiff or traction control in those days.

I do expect to test the limits of my PHEV over time, and hopefully the tow rope and TurFer winch will not be needed.

 

[outofyorkshire]

mmmmmmm ..... I would expect the stability control to lock any spinning wheels :shock:

From the mitsubishi web site :
When the system detects that proper grip cannot be maintained at each tire while driving on slippery road surfaces or due to sudden steering wheel input, braking force is applied at one or more wheels and engine output is automatically adjusted to help the driver maintain control. In addition, sensors monitor the tire traction and work with the anti-lock braking system (ABS) to counteract slipping on wet/snowy roads.

That said as it also connected to the steering wheel angle sensor...it may need some wheel input to get it activated ...

Did you try moving the angle of the front wheels ??

 

[sas1]

The PHEV was stationary being stuck on the tree root. I believe that the stability control only works when the car is in motion. It relies on the movement to trigger the electronics.
In my case no over or under steer or loss of traction while driving so no movement to initiate the electronic anti skid or loss of traction while driving.

I did swing the front wheels from side to side to try to find solid ground but found sandy soil. My right rear wheel tyre was caught behind a root that under normal driving it would have been easily able to drive over.

I thought that the wheels that were spinning would be braked.

The other issue is that when the PHEV is stressed with a short climb that seems too steep it can go into turtle mode. In my case the power was being lost in the spinning wheels.

So with motion the car should work well.

Thanks for the ideas

 

[jaapv]

Well, when all is said and done, this is an "All Road" SUV and not a bush-bashing vehicle. Despite being pretty good - for a SUV- in terrain, a Defender, Landcruiser or Pajero can obviously be a better choice for really tough going. To avoid depleting the battery into turtle mode - you really must exhaust the car quite a bit beyond its official "empty" state to achieve this- it is best to start out fully charged and maintain as high a state of charge as possible by keeping the "Charge" button engaged at all times in energy-demanding situations..

 

[tun]

We must understand that, there's a Pajero/ Shogun in their product line-up for things we can't do with the Outlander

 

[maby]

Somewhere I saw it described as a "soft-roader" - probably a fair description

 

[maby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WL-csch2rg

At about 26 sec into this video diagonal wheels are in air and Phev keeps going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIcsem1MEZY

But at about 2min 30sec in this video it show the Phev stopped and petrol motor revving and then getting going after a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4jC2GCZpI

At about 3min 40secs again diagonal wheels off ground and spinning and keeping going after awhile.


Regards Trex.

Not sure that any of those actually show simultaneous loss of traction on diagonal wheels - there certainly is a wheel spinning, but 4WD lock seems likely to have been the answer - ensuring that there is traction to the axle that still has grip on both wheels.

 

[karl]

Did you disable Stability Control?

The owners manual states that Stability Control should be off on mud,
gravel, snow, etc.

The reason seems to be a bit lost in translation, but Stability Control
is clearly useful only when driving at speed.

To help you keep the car from going sideways down a hill when driving off the road,
other brands offer some kind of "hill descent mode", and that's a completely different thing.

 

[greendwarf]

We must understand that, there's a Pajero/ Shogun in their product line-up for things we can't do with the Outlander

As a complete aside - Pajero is Spanish for young horse but unfortunately in South America slang for w****r, cue embarrassment for marketing dept at Mitsu :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[maby]

We must understand that, there's a Pajero/ Shogun in their product line-up for things we can't do with the Outlander

As a complete aside - Pajero is Spanish for young horse but unfortunately in South America slang for w****r, cue embarrassment for marketing dept at Mitsu :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol:

Many years ago, Commodore marketing were puzzled why their "Vic" computer didn't sell well in Germany...

 

[BeeJay]

Did you disable Stability Control?

The owners manual states that Stability Control should be off on mud,
gravel, snow, etc.

The reason seems to be a bit lost in translation, but Stability Control
is clearly useful only when driving at speed.

To help you keep the car from going sideways down a hill when driving off the road,
other brands offer some kind of "hill descent mode", and that's a completely different thing.

The reason they tell you to turn off stability control on mud/gravel/snow is because at times (when stuck) on those surfaces it can be advantageous to spin the wheels in order to make progress, and the stability control system includes traction control which would brake wheels in this situation and/or back off power meaning you cannot spin the wheels.

However the videos are confusing as it shows in cross-axle work like the OP describes that the diffs behave as open, which is sad. If DSC was left on then it should be braking those spinning wheels in some way.
I would like the think that the 4WD Lock switch would enable not only a virtual centre diff lock as it apparently does, but also at least rear if not both front and rear diff locks.

I think we need some clarification here, but not sure where to get it from, the manual is woeful.

This post seems to offer a bit more clarity on what 4WD lock does, in terms of transferring more torque to the rear than normal - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=965

Having come from a line of Range Rovers (P38s and L322s) to this, even the lack of HDC is also disappointing, though as others mention, they have the Shogun as the serious player here. However I always liked the fact that even the 'little' Freelander was very competent off-road, and this PHEV is in the Freelander (now Discovery Sport) class and should be able to compete. Still, I don't miss the reliability and repair costs!

I have driven the PHEV across some very muddy fields and down some rutted, wet muddy tracks this winter and it was competent (I had it on Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtremes, not the Toyos over the winter). Never got it with diagonal wheels airborne though.

 

[duplo]

sounds like the car was cross axled, that will defeat even a defender it it doesn't have diff locks on the axles.

 

[maby]

sounds like the car was cross axled, that will defeat even a defender it it doesn't have diff locks on the axles.

I guess the point is that the Defender does.

 

[simonrh]

Even a defender doesn't have cross axle diff locks as standard I dont think.
Has a centre diff lock but this could still get defeated by having opposing wheels in the air.
GWagen does and a bunch of 4x4s have a rear LSD or difflock which would nudge you forward enough in the situation above.

 

[ian4x4]

This is a freelander cross axled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcGy3UAVwBc

Looks very similar to PHEV clip to me.

Some spinning goes on while car tries to work out how to deliver traction.

But the Freelander succeeds in the end.