12 Volt Lithium Battery and Accessory Mode.

[RobertGrover]

2020 GT (Canada Model.)

Notes:

Should not use car in acc. mode.

12V lithium battery( there is only one in the boot) is low capacity. It is not meant to run all 12v lights, fans, etc. It has 2 main functions- maintain the software and settings; and pull in 12v relay by using start button, which connects main 300v battery pack to system. With 300V battery running, the 300VDC to 12VDC converter will charge the 12V lithium battery and run all the 12V accessories. Typically charge level 14.2VDC.

So here is the scenario: 300v BATTERY FULLY CHARGED.
Sitting in car in accessory mode- radio, fans, run lights... After 30 minutes 12v battery drains to 10V or less. Pressing start button-cannot pull in relay to connect 300v battery to drive car in EV mode or start ICE if required.
You are not going anywhere...

My GT model has WIFI and actually runs car in EV mode at 2PM everyday to charge 12v lithium battery to ensure it has proper voltage, especially if car is stored is stored for longer periods.

There is a plug--in cigar lighter DC volt meter that will tell you the 12V battery voltage if you are interested. Available on-line on TEMU

 

[DaveL59]

Did Mitsu switch from the lead AGM aux battery then?

Interesting as I was wondering about the potential of switching to a LiFePo replacement for the AGM one when the time comes. The downsides of course would be the potential issues in a fire, as well as running the battery so low that its BMS cuts all output and you'd need a jumpstart to kick the battery back into life to get it to start charging again.

If the manufacturer has made the switch then perhaps it's worth another look, tho I note my 2019 puts out 14.7-14.5v when the system first starts and that eventually drops back to 13.2v. I installed a hardwired USB QC socket which has a volts display into one of the spare switch positions.

Do you happen to know the details of the battery they fitted? Model chemistry and capacity?

 

[timmech]

Did Mitsu switch from the lead AGM aux battery then?

Interesting as I was wondering about the potential of switching to a LiFePo replacement for the AGM one when the time comes. The downsides of course would be the potential issues in a fire, as well as running the battery so low that its BMS cuts all output and you'd need a jumpstart to kick the battery back into life to get it to start charging again.

If the manufacturer has made the switch then perhaps it's worth another look, tho I note my 2019 puts out 14.7-14.5v when the system first starts and that eventually drops back to 13.2v. I installed a hardwired USB QC socket which has a volts display into one of the spare switch positions.

Do you happen to know the details of the battery they fitted? Model chemistry and capacity?

Very cool on the USB QC socket install- did you happen to YouTube the process or can you give me a part link? I'd love to do the same thing.

 

[DaveL59]

Very cool on the USB QC socket install- did you happen to YouTube the process or can you give me a part link? I'd love to do the same thing.

I didn't take pics or video, sorry. The part I got was rectangular so I had to file the corners to fit into the switch blank snug. There are some available tho that have rounded corners, guess I just picked the wrong one during my late night amazon spree, doh!!

I bought this one - you need to measure up to get the correct size to fit, in my case 23x33mm.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C4K9YDMB?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

1. I prised out the blank using a plastic tool to not mark up the surround.
2. Unhook the cable from the back of the blank (in my case it'd have been for the 120/240v).
3. Remove the surround around the infotainment.
4. Feed a stiff wire/plastic thru the open blank and reach down to find it.
5. Attach the 12v and earth wires you want to run and pull them back through.
6. Terminate appropriately.
7. I ran the earth up to the infotainment unit and used one of its screws to ground.
8. 12v live I ran to the fuseboard and used a piggy-back fuse to power it up.
9. Press the USB/voltmeter panel into the switch position.
10. Press the start button once to get ACC for the 12v aux reading.
11. Press start to Ready mode to get the 12v converter reading.

 

[timmech]

I didn't take pics or video, sorry. The part I got was rectangular so I had to file the corners to fit into the switch blank snug. There are some available tho that have rounded corners, guess I just picked the wrong one during my late night amazon spree, doh!!

I bought this one - you need to measure up to get the correct size to fit, in my case 23x33mm.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C4K9YDMB?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

1. I prised out the blank using a plastic tool to not mark up the surround.
2. Unhook the cable from the back of the blank (in my case it'd have been for the 120/240v).
3. Remove the surround around the infotainment.
4. Feed a stiff wire/plastic thru the open blank and reach down to find it.
5. Attach the 12v and earth wires you want to run and pull them back through.
6. Terminate appropriately.
7. I ran the earth up to the infotainment unit and used one of its screws to ground.
8. 12v live I ran to the fuseboard and used a piggy-back fuse to power it up.
9. Press the USB/voltmeter panel into the switch position.
10. Press the start button once to get ACC for the 12v aux reading.
11. Press start to Ready mode to get the 12v converter reading.

Thank you for the detailed instructions; I'll give it a shot.

 

[SeattleExPat]

Did Mitsu switch from the lead AGM aux battery then?

Interesting as I was wondering about the potential of switching to a LiFePo replacement for the AGM one when the time comes. The downsides of course would be the potential issues in a fire, as well as running the battery so low that its BMS cuts all output and you'd need a jumpstart to kick the battery back into life to get it to start charging again.

If the manufacturer has made the switch then perhaps it's worth another look, tho I note my 2019 puts out 14.7-14.5v when the system first starts and that eventually drops back to 13.2v. I installed a hardwired USB QC socket which has a volts display into one of the spare switch positions.

Do you happen to know the details of the battery they fitted? Model chemistry and capacity?

I removed the panel in my 2023 Outlander and had a look at the battery. It does NOT look like a LiFePO4 battery.

From what I can tell, it's a Hankook-AtlasBX size L1 AGM battery (Hankook part number AGM55020). The sticker on top shows "12V - L1 50Ah 420A (EN) MF".
You can find it in the Hankook battery catalog. The dimensions match - go to page 24:
https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...7-4134-ba7c-a3e33e1e31ca/HANKOOK_GLOBAL_C.pdf
I think I found an equivalent battery that is available in the US without paying some outrageous amount at the dealer - DieHard EV Group Size H4, still expensive (~$300). It has the same dimensions, capacity and terminal layout:
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...-ca-80-min-reserve-capacity-h4-xev/50001093-p
Hope this helps, maybe someone can verify.

 

[Stevepl11]

I changed mine for a 42AH sealed Made In China (should just startt saying MiC) solar system battery. Less than halfthe price of OEM type, but had to change leads as terminals are (M5?) threaded . Also needed a block of wood for the holddown. All good after 10 months.

 

[vs2]

I removed the panel in my 2023 Outlander and had a look at the battery. It does NOT look like a LiFePO4 battery.

From what I can tell, it's a Hankook-AtlasBX size L1 AGM battery (Hankook part number AGM55020). The sticker on top shows "12V - L1 50Ah 420A (EN) MF".
You can find it in the Hankook battery catalog. The dimensions match - go to page 24:
https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...7-4134-ba7c-a3e33e1e31ca/HANKOOK_GLOBAL_C.pdf
I think I found an equivalent battery that is available in the US without paying some outrageous amount at the dealer - DieHard EV Group Size H4, still expensive (~$300). It has the same dimensions, capacity and terminal layout:
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...-ca-80-min-reserve-capacity-h4-xev/50001093-p
Hope this helps, maybe someone can verify.

That is interesting. I'm in NZ and in my 2023 PHEV the battery is a Hankook MF55054 which is a SMF battery and not AGM. It is on page 26 of the document you posted.

https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...7-4134-ba7c-a3e33e1e31ca/HANKOOK_GLOBAL_C.pdf

 

[yardbird]

My 2018 Outlander PHEV's OEM 12V battery had some corrosion so I replaced it with this LIFePo4 battery $280 shipped from China's Aliexpress about a year ago. Hopefully it will last 10 years. you would need the Negative L battery. Their life cycle should last 5 to 6 times those of lead acid batteries. Ebay has some other brand at more than $400 -$600. LiFePo4 battery is much safer than the Lithium Ion battery. The future of EV battery will be Sodium Ion Battery. Tesla said that an upcoming compact passenger car with a potential sale of 42 million thanks to its 53-kWh lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery pack.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...t_main.10.9df11802wtGC0S&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I think it is about $200 shipped now a year later.


This battery has a built-in BMS chip inside to regulate charging and you just install it like your regular lead acid battery. You do need a special LIFePo4 battery charger if needed. I always charge my 12V batteries at least once a year at home. I got this charger for both lead & LiFePo4 batteries. I installed it since early January 2023, no problem so far. My detector shows over 13-14V at full charge.



12v Battery Charger Foxsur | Foxsur 6v 12v 24v Charger | Foxsur Battery Charger 6 - Chargers - Aliexpress

 

[DaveL59]

My 2018 Outlander PHEV's OEM 12V battery had some corrosion so I replaced it with this LIFePo4 battery $280 shipped from China's Aliexpress about a year ago. Hopefully it will last 10 years. you would need the Negative L battery. Their life cycle should last 5 to 6 times those of lead acid batteries. Ebay has some other brand at more than $400 -$600. LiFePo4 battery is much safer than the Lithium Ion battery. The future of EV battery will be Sodium Ion Battery. Tesla said that an upcoming compact passenger car with a potential sale of 42 million thanks to its 53-kWh lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery pack.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...t_main.10.9df11802wtGC0S&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I think it is about $200 shipped now a year later.
View attachment 1195

This battery has a built-in BMS chip inside to regulate charging and you just install it like your regular lead acid battery. You do need a special LIFePo4 battery charger if needed. I always charge my 12V batteries at least once a year at home. I got this charger for both lead & LiFePo4 batteries. I installed it since early January 2023, no problem so far. My detector shows over 13-14V at full charge.

View attachment 1196

12v Battery Charger Foxsur | Foxsur 6v 12v 24v Charger | Foxsur Battery Charger 6 - Chargers - Aliexpress

That's interesting, I was tempted to do similar but having read that you may risk the charging circuit in the PHEV having issues/early failure because it isn't designed to have a LiFePo (i.e., the disconnects when fully charged) I decided to stay with an AGM one for now.

The other risk of course will be if left unused long enough and the battery goes flat, the BMS would prevent it delivering any voltage at all until it's woken up - a voltage applied at the jump terminals, for example.

 

[yardbird]

It had been a year without any problem and you can also charge it with this $20 charger in my post for LIFePo4 battery. I also have a voltage reader at the cigarette lighter charger and it read about 13.5 -14 V when started. It is just a better 12V battery than the lead or AGM battery, if it didn't work with the car's alternator, it would have been dead already. No special design is required because this battery has a built-in BMS chip inside to regulate charging and you just install it like your regular lead acid battery. You do need that special LIFePo4 battery charger if needed. Low self discharge rate: It can be stored for more than 1 years versus 6 months for lead acid battery. I was getting sick & tired of my other's lead acid batteries dying in 3 or 4 years & couldn't start after getting back from vacation...not this lithium battery though. If you wait for manufacturer to use Lithium 12v battery, it may not happen in the next 10 years due to costs. Nowadays, even the new cars come with plastic oil filter housing. Go figure, every penny counts. I had to change that plastic oil filter housing to aluminum housing (some $20 extra) of my Lexus RX. Why, the mechanic said those stupid plastic oil filter housing can break or even crack so easily when he tried to unscrew it!

Another point is that why you guys said the lithium battery is low capacity. Mine is 30AH Car Starter Battery CCA 720A much higher than most lead acid batteries.

Over 80% of the world’s lithium-ion batteries are now made in China so they know what they are doing. Our AGM or lead acid batteries are getting so expensive with inflation (almost double versus 3 years ago) while the Lithium iron or ion batteries are getting cheaper & cheaper.

 

[DaveL59]

ah don't get me wrong, kudos for giving it a go and glad it works.

I do get the concern tho re the BMS and it effectively no-loading the alternator in a regular car or the 12v converter in our PHEVs. What the long-term effects will be, who knows. Well in an alternator, it could cause the regulator to break down quicker than it should.

Agreed re the longevity of lead batteries, keeping them float charged etc and in my case where the car isn't used a lot, knowing the drain on the battery will take it down to 12v over 10 days ain't great.

Not sure that a LiFePo would do much better tho in terms of lost charge as its the in-car electronics that'll be causing the drain. Then again, for the same size the usable charge capacity will be much higher so perhaps it'd be fine...

 

[yardbird]

Most people are afraid of new technology. Like I said, if it works for one year, it means it is treating it like a lead acid battery because of the built-in BMS in the Lithium iron battery. I had never have a problem starting the car since installed in hot or cold days so far. I will keep you guys posted every year or so if I still keep the car. My 2018 PHEV's 12KW lithium batteries are only giving me about 12-13 EV miles, not too happy about Mitsubishi's PHEV, may try a Toyota or Lexus PHEV next time.

 

[Johny451]

China is a big country. "They know what they are doing" might cover some of the better manufacturers but not, I fear, those who sell though AliExpress. My dealing with them have been suss. The PHEV charge profile would be quite wrong for a LiFePO4 battery so you are risking life and limb here. The battery is inside the passenger compartment...
Not a good idea at all IMO.

 

[yardbird]

China is a big country. "They know what they are doing" might cover some of the better manufacturers but not, I fear, those who sell though AliExpress. My dealing with them have been suss. The PHEV charge profile would be quite wrong for a LiFePO4 battery so you are risking life and limb here. The battery is inside the passenger compartment...
Not a good idea at all IMO.

Your outlander must be different than mine. The 12V battery is at the back trunk, no where near the passenger compartment while the main tract batteries are at the rear left hand side passenger side. So it depends which one you are talking about. If you do some research about Lithium Iron PO4 battery which is not the same as lithium ion battery known for fire hazard. LiFePO4 is very safe. Anyway I am probably wasting time here, time will prove the safety & longevity of LiFePO4 batteries. BTW, there is no difference between the sellers in Amazon, Ebay or Aliexpress, the battery products are probably all 95% from China wherever you buy. You can get the same battery in Amazon for twice the price if you want. The charge profile you are talking about the converter which will output 14v, that's what actually a LiFePO4 battery requires. How is it not working? I had zero problem with this new battery since January, 2023.

Come back and check this post in 2034.

 

[OutlanderMatt]

China is a big country. "They know what they are doing" might cover some of the better manufacturers but not, I fear, those who sell though AliExpress. My dealing with them have been suss. The PHEV charge profile would be quite wrong for a LiFePO4 battery so you are risking life and limb here. The battery is inside the passenger compartment...
Not a good idea at all IMO.

Please explain the charge profile you are talking about and how it is not suitable for alternative batteries?

 

[HeliNurse]

I buy through Ebay, Aliexpress, Temu and Vevor regularly and am more than satisfied with my purchases especially their tracking. Having bought 2 items from Australian vendors lately and had them delivered to our local freight depot and having had no tracking advice available until they arrived, you got to wonder how they manage it. BTW the gazebo and the trailer springs were both made in Shina, as Trump would say.

 

[vs2]

Go down towards the bottom of this page where he mentions the use of 12v AGM vs lithium replacements for the PHEV.

https://rotory.com/PHEV/outlander/

 

[yardbird]

Go down towards the bottom of this page where he mentions the use of 12v AGM vs lithium replacements for the PHEV.

https://rotory.com/PHEV/outlander/

He claimed that the Outlander's converter can only charge up to 27% of the lithium 12v Battery. That is very untrue for the LIFePO4 12v battery that I installed for my 2018 PHEV. When I check the voltage & % with a smart charger at home, the 12v LiFePO4 battery is almost full at about 13V at least and only take about 1/2 hour to top it off with the home charger. While the AGM battery of my Lexus RX450h takes a few hours to charge it to full.

If the converter can only charge up to 27% of alternate Lithium 12V battery, then it shouldn't be able to start any car at all not for one year so far on my PHEV. So far, it was proved to work for more than 1 year on a 2018 Outlander PHEV and I am looking forward to a second year.

 

[yardbird]

I buy through Ebay, Aliexpress, Temu and Vevor regularly and am more than satisfied with my purchases especially their tracking. Having bought 2 items from Australian vendors lately and had them delivered to our local freight depot and having had no tracking advice available until they arrived, you got to wonder how they manage it. BTW the gazebo and the trailer springs were both made in Shina, as Trump would say.

Temu will end up as the winner in a few years. they have very customer oriented refund policy like Amazon, seldomly ask too many questions but only require a picture to be posted for refund. Aliexpress or Taobao.com need to catch up.