Which Engine oil for PHEV ?

[elm70]

Hi,

I think I read somewhere that the PHEV should get full synthetic 0-20W ... is this correct?

Thanks

 

[stevek]

The owners manual just seems to suggest choose the right viscosity according to the environmental temparatures, so 0W-20 is probably overkill unless it drops below -25 where you are.
It does specify the oil needs to be either ACEA A1/B1,A3/B3,A3/B4 or A5/B5 type (basically designed for petrol engines). Although A1/B1 is not allowed if you're dropping down to a 0W or 5W.

The workshop manual seems to have even less information:
http://mmc-autoelectric.org.ua/manuals/eur/outlander/2014/12/html/M112100040303400ENG.htm

 

[elm70]

Actually here it is quite common to get -20deg in the morning in winter

Anyhow ... I see in some place that is suggested 0W-20 (http://www.continentalmitsubishi.com/blog/what-kind-of-oil-does-my-car-need/)
And in a different place it is mention 5W-30 (http://www.midlandslubricants.co.uk/automotive-oils/hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-engine-oil-steering-fluid/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-hybrid-5w-30-engine-oil/)

But yes, in the manual, there is a wide range of possible oil .. and for cold temperature in theory 0W-20 is consider same as 5W-40

Just for a service ... for a place that have seen PHEV first time in their life (but at least they have some service manuals) ... I'm negative shocked about how unprofessional they have been ... and they did put on my car an "Hungarian" oil : 5W/30 ENEOS PREMIUM ULTRA

For how it works the PHEV ... I would say that 0W-20 should be always the best oil for the car .. but I may be wrong.

Anyhow ... if there was an evidence that they gave me a wrong oil (the incompetence was not able to prove in front of me that the oil is the right ... using the PHEV DVD maintenance) .. then I could have ask to take away this oil ... but ... I think I have to hope I would not get bad surprise in the winter

Next time I'm going to a bit more far away for get service ... not many Mitsubishi authorized service around :?

 

[stevek]

I expect the 5w30 will be ok in terms of viscosity at low temperatures.

Although looking at the Spec sheet for the Eneos Premium Ultra it meets the Acea C3-10 spec, not the A/B specs, so strictly speaking they've not followed the workshop guide.
http://www.eneoslatvia.lv/faili/2014/10/specs-en-car-motor_PremiumUltra-5W30.pdf

If you go through Eneos' own oil selector:http://www.noeu.jx-group.eu/oilselector.php it suggests the following options
1 ENEOS Sustina 5W30 (b)
2 ENEOS Premium Hyper 5W30
3 ENEOS Premium Hyper Multi 5W30

It looks like Eneos are Japanese owned so may well be the OEM supplier to Mitsubishi ad why it's used by their workshops.

 

[stevek]

Not the smartest branding though, having one product called Eneos Premium Ultra and one called Eneos Premium Hyper. Could easily see how a mechanic might read off a spec, pick up what they think is the right oil but get it wrong.

I would imagine the difference is going to be marginal, but the other oils mentioned clearly state they meet the A/B standards whereas the the Premium Ultra omits it.
http://mectechmotorsport.co.uk/assets/2013-eneos-brochure.pdf

Also learnt something new, Eneos is the brand of the biggest oil company in Japan and supplies all the manufacturers.

 

[HHL]

Hi,

I think I read somewhere that the PHEV should get full synthetic 0-20W ... is this correct?

Thanks

No

 

[elm70]

Thanks a lot stevek

Yes, I'm going to complain about the oil used at service, and I will ask them to change me back to the correct one

I have the feeling that in this car, which can in any moment from cold status .. start in full power and high rpm .. (like entering the motorway with low battery after have driven in pure EV mode) ... oil is critical for preserve the life of the engine

Even if my car has already 120k km done by previous owner ... the wrong oil can cause me a earlier death of he engine .. and being out of warranty, it can be really expensive

 

[elm70]

Hi,

I think I read somewhere that the PHEV should get full synthetic 0-20W ... is this correct?

Thanks

No

:ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W20
0W20 Fully-synthetic: Ultimate-performance motor oil for 0W20-recommended automobiles and low emission vehicles, which are designed for best fuel economy and environmental performance. Specially designed for hybrid engines.

It is looking that 0-20 is what is suggested for Hybrid cars

It is in the main page of ENEOS : http://www.noeu.jx-group.eu/index.php

 

[jaapv]

Actually here it is quite common to get -20deg in the morning in winter

Anyhow ... I see in some place that is suggested 0W-20 (http://www.continentalmitsubishi.com/blog/what-kind-of-oil-does-my-car-need/)
And in a different place it is mention 5W-30 (http://www.midlandslubricants.co.uk/automotive-oils/hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-engine-oil-steering-fluid/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-hybrid-5w-30-engine-oil/)

But yes, in the manual, there is a wide range of possible oil .. and for cold temperature in theory 0W-20 is consider same as 5W-40

Just for a service ... for a place that have seen PHEV first time in their life (but at least they have some service manuals) ... I'm negative shocked about how unprofessional they have been ... and they did put on my car an "Hungarian" oil : 5W/30 ENEOS PREMIUM ULTRA

For how it works the PHEV ... I would say that 0W-20 should be always the best oil for the car .. but I may be wrong.

Anyhow ... if there was an evidence that they gave me a wrong oil (the incompetence was not able to prove in front of me that the oil is the right ... using the PHEV DVD maintenance) .. then I could have ask to take away this oil ... but ... I think I have to hope I would not get bad surprise in the winter

Next time I'm going to a bit more far away for get service ... not many Mitsubishi authorized service around :?

It can be a hassle if dealers are thin on the ground - but this is a car that really needs dealer service. It is not just changing oil and filters, but connecting up to the diagnostic program, reading out and resetting log files, updating firmware, etc as well.

 

[elm70]

It can be a hassle if dealers are thin on the ground - but this is a car that really needs dealer service. It is not just changing oil and filters, but connecting up to the diagnostic program, reading out and resetting log files, updating firmware, etc as well.

Right

In theory electric car should be more simple and should require less maintenance .. but the PHEV is Hybrid .. which combine both the ICE and EV complexity together ... and Hybrid is something new for Mitsubishi (only 3 years of experience) ... and in some country where sales have been close to zero, I guess many dealers have zero experience like the one that I just discover here.

I have to say that I'm relative new in Poland ... but so far I had only good experience using Dacia and BMW local services, from BMW service, quality service is expected , but I have to admit possibly at Dacia service they have been even more professional. So .. I'm negative surprise about Mitsubishi service here (Germaz for be precise, which deal on the same shop/location Ford and Suzuki too)

Anyhow ... from first contact with Mitsubishi service the impression have been bad .. the odd request to have the car cold for some "adjustment" that I did not really understood .. also end price was not cheap either, for the polish standard, 250 euro only for man work , for change just oil and 2 filters .. and for doing some "mystery" check . But ... they check the 12V battery status (what a waste) .. and clean my car (which was cleaned when I got less the 2 weeks ago .. so double waste) .. but they did not had the courtesy to charge my car .. which would have been much appreciated instead (possibly they have no charging cable in their shop)

Maybe was my impression .. but on the way back .. I had to take motorway, and never I felt so laud the engine ... it was "screaming" ... if I recall right it was barely hear-able the ICE in the motorway at 140km/h on the clock

Today I'm calling the shop, and I will request to change me the oil for the correct one ... I'm not taking the risk to use a oil that is not matching the requirement from producers ... especially due to the way that this PHEV is working, with high RPM at cold happening potentially anytime ...

 

[elm70]

BTW ... I did ask multiple time that I need the car WiFi password ...

And ... I got nothing ...

The "smart" guy when I pick up the car ... about WiFi password .. he show me the procedure for connect, and asked if I have the second key with attached the password ,.... damned .. either he thing I'm retarded .. or he his ... if I ask for password .. it means I know what I need

Anyhow .. he first said I need to come back for get the password ... (what the point to me to waste time and "fuel" for go there .. for get something that is just a code that fit even in an SMS) ... but then .. when I said I can pay online and get the password via email .. he sounds more open (clearly they don't want to give me this little service for free) ... still .. for what he said .. he is clear they have no clue at all from where to start for get the password .. he was only commenting that the procedure is complicated due to the security involved .. what a (censured)



PS: For make the experience even worst .. everywhere I have been .. before pay the bill .. they show me in detail what has been done, and the associated costs ... but no .. here it is not possible .. this details are only in the bill that is given after payment .. what a bad business model

 

[stevek]

I think the Eneos Premium Ultra 0W20 is engineered for the Toyota Prius Hybrid, and indeed if you enter the Prius in to the Eneos oil selector it is the only oil that comes up. There are probably a lot more Toyota and Lexus hybrids out there than Mitsubishis, so expect that's why Eneos have put the blanket suitable for Hybrid statement on it.

It may well be suitable for the PHEV, but doesn't happen to be one of the ones that comes up. The Sustina and Premium Ultra oils sound a bit higher end.

 

[elm70]

I think the Eneos Premium Ultra 0W20 is engineered for the Toyota Prius Hybrid, and indeed if you enter the Prius in to the Eneos oil selector it is the only oil that comes up. There are probably a lot more Toyota and Lexus hybrids out there than Mitsubishis, so expect that's why Eneos have put the blanket suitable for Hybrid statement on it.

It may well be suitable for the PHEV, but doesn't happen to be one of the ones that comes up. The Sustina and Premium Ultra oils sound a bit higher end.

Guess you made a typo above:

Sustina and Premium Hyper

Yes .. Sustina is looking an oil designed for high performance cars (which this PHEV is not BTW, but ...) and clearly Hyper is one step above Ultra

More then the type of oil ... the viscosity 0W-20 .. it sounds more inline with the PHEV engine usage compared to 5W-30 especially in cold weather .. but the difference is possibly marginal.

So .. If I would be free to decide ... I would go for Premium Hyper 0W-20 ... but ... since this is not in the suggested list ... I will have to "accept" to go for either the Sustina or the Hyper .. both in 5W-30

My dealer is so "busy" that it is looking like they open the show at 10am :shock: ... so .. soon I will have an interesting conversation :ugeek:

PS: The Premius Ultra 5W-30 used by them ... is the suggested oil for the normal Outlander ... so I guess this is what they have in stock, and then the "lazy mechanic" just consider my car as a normal one

 

[jaapv]

It can be a hassle if dealers are thin on the ground - but this is a car that really needs dealer service. It is not just changing oil and filters, but connecting up to the diagnostic program, reading out and resetting log files, updating firmware, etc as well.

Right

In theory electric car should be more simple and should require less maintenance .. but the PHEV is Hybrid .. which combine both the ICE and EV complexity together ... and Hybrid is something new for Mitsubishi (only 3 years of experience) ... and in some country where sales have been close to zero, I guess many dealers have zero experience like the one that I just discover here.

I have to say that I'm relative new in Poland ... but so far I had only good experience using Dacia and BMW local services, from BMW service, quality service is expected , but I have to admit possibly at Dacia service they have been even more professional. So .. I'm negative surprise about Mitsubishi service here (Germaz for be precise, which deal on the same shop/location Ford and Suzuki too)

Anyhow ... from first contact with Mitsubishi service the impression have been bad .. the odd request to have the car cold for some "adjustment" that I did not really understood .. also end price was not cheap either, for the polish standard, 250 euro only for man work , for change just oil and 2 filters .. and for doing some "mystery" check . But ... they check the 12V battery status (what a waste) .. and clean my car (which was cleaned when I got less the 2 weeks ago .. so double waste) .. but they did not had the courtesy to charge my car .. which would have been much appreciated instead (possibly they have no charging cable in their shop)

Maybe was my impression .. but on the way back .. I had to take motorway, and never I felt so laud the engine ... it was "screaming" ... if I recall right it was barely hear-able the ICE in the motorway at 140km/h on the clock

Today I'm calling the shop, and I will request to change me the oil for the correct one ... I'm not taking the risk to use a oil that is not matching the requirement from producers ... especially due to the way that this PHEV is working, with high RPM at cold happening potentially anytime ...

We have another member from Poland here who never complained about Mitsubishi service. Maybe you should ask around a bit. It is indeed a fact that dealers who are authorized to service the PHEV had to undergo special training, so not all Mitsubishi dealers are equal. The Polish Mitsubishi website has a list of "PHEV" dealers.

 

[stevek]

yep typo! guess that makes the point about having such similar branding for effectively different products!!

 

[elm70]

We have another member from Poland here who never complained about Mitsubishi service. Maybe you should ask around a bit. It is indeed a fact that dealers who are authorized to service the PHEV had to undergo special training, so not all Mitsubishi dealers are equal. The Polish Mitsubishi website has a list of "PHEV" dealers.

Thanks

I was not aware of the PHEV dealers list from web site .. I will try to find it out

Actually in my region there are only 2 authorized services, that are in "my" city too ... so ... since one is clearly incompetent (for don't add other adjectives) , I will try the 2nd one that is just a bit further away from me .. but except these two , next one is over 100km far away ... possibly vtech "polish office" is closer to me then the next authorized service place

Back to the oil "saga" ...

Incredible ... this "shop" that made my service .. have just told me that C3 oil is better then A3/B3 ... and in the PHEV manual it is written that should be used specified oil or better

First of all A3/B3 is neither better or worst then C3 .. it is just different
And second, better oil, in the manual it is stated only for the API SG part only

So ... I'm not going to keep this oil in my car, clearly this service is not only incompetent, but not even honest too

I guess I will have to make a legal action for have 200 Euro back from extra oil change at my cost ... that means I lost 200 euros ...

 

[elm70]

A quick update for close this issue

After my initial complain for the wrong oil, I got a call few days later from the official service and they offer me to change the oil for the Eneos Ultra at no extra cost

So, at the end they did replace the C3 oil with the Utra Multi (even a positive surprise) that is a A5/B5

So, even if it was looking a bit odd the communication, I can't complain for the end result (it did cost me, "only", 1 extra trip to service)

As side not, I did contact Mitsubishi Poland, via the only contact email that I could find.
This was quite strange ... they stated that using the C3 oil is good even if not in the manual .. this is quite incredible to me .. it sounds like they want to "support" their official service that did not 100% accurate the job.

Finally .. in all the mess .. my request to get my WiFi Password got lost ... so ... I will not be able to use the apps ... neither the service nor the Mitsubishi contact, did ever "really" react on my request to get the WiFi password

So "retarded" this WiFi password issue ... and for people that get a 2nd hand PHEV will be very common to don't get this password