Unwanted/needed engine start

[mort]

This may sound familiar, last year I created quite a stir by starting a new thread labeled "bad UI" I caught quite a bit of flack for several of my perceived quirks with this CUV.
While another year has firmed up my love of this car, the winter is bringing back out and highlighting the issues I have with it.
For clarity my commute is average in the USA it is 8 miles both ways, this combined with normal daily errands and weekend trips equals exactly 12000 miles per year. Like I said, dead average.
This being said there is no excuse whatsoever in the mild pacific northwest for the ICE to activate during the act of my normal commute.
But it does, allot :evil:
The last two mornings I have experienced a new, faulty ICE activation.

Full battery, 41 F, heater off, defroster off, EV mode, Eco mode, driver seat heat on high, fairly steep hill, normal to gentle throttle; 20KW demand.
Stupid engine starts! wastes gas, puts unnecessary wear on the ICE, makes me pullover and shut off car, makes me mad.
Why is this starting now? what is different?
If I don't pull over and shut engine off it will run needlessly for half of my commute.
Please help.

 

[littlescrote]

sounds like you need psychiatric help rather than technical help. just accept that it does that and live with it. burn a bit of petrol. as for unnecessary wear on the ICE, that's just ridiculous. do you honestly believe that behaviour is going to prematurely wear it out before you've died of old age?

 

[JohanvdH]

The engine will start if the car thinks the fuel in the tank is getting too old.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Just a tad dismissive there little scrote!

I'm going to throw out some solidarity here as I too get irritated when ICE kicks in when I feel it isn't needed. I'm not experiencing the problems OP is, just instances where I turn the heat up too much etc. I also have concerns about the impact to the engine, but that's in instances when i'm about 0.5mile from home with no EV left. Ultimately i'm too cheap to save the EV and run the ICE for longer so it is what it is.

 

[jaapv]

Of course you get irritated when a computer outsmarts you.

 

[IslandLife]

I've been having the exact same scenario as you... same temps, same settings and finding the engine wants to run for a little while. But, so far it also seems that if I've pre-warmed the car, it doesn't do it.

Pure speculation on my part, but I was thinking it had something to do with a cold battery pack not being able to discharge enough power should you need it?? So it runs the ICE and pushes current into the battery to help warm up the pack? I'm guessing the battery heater doesn't start until the car is started? But also takes some time to get heat into the battery? And so until the pack has reached a sufficient temp, it needs the help?

And then, does pre-warming the car and the act of using enough juice to pre-heat for 10 minutes also warm up the pack enough that it doesn't need to turn on the ICE and juice the pack?

Perhaps someone with more knowledge or cold weather experience can chime in on whether this might be the case? This is the first winter I've had the car. I'm on the west coast of Canada so not much of a winter over here. Typical lows are in the 40 to 50 F range.... but it has been a bit cooler than normal lately with overnight temps hitting freezing and my car sits in an open carport.

 

[nils944]

I also have been trying to avoid ICE-starts, and was generally successful by simply keeping the climate control system off. I'm on the west coast of Sweden with relatively mild winters, generally hovering around freezing (zero Celsius).

I recently installed the Phev Box that is made/sold by a company in Poland. The only change I made was to download their "alternative" mapping which makes the vehicle default to EV mode. My PHEV is a 2014 model, so I don't have the EV-button. I also installed the sensor-thing that is supposed to reduce ICE starts when using the heater.

I've only had it installed for about a week, and temperatures have been between -5 and +5 Celsius. If I pre-heat the cabin then it seems to work, i.e. the ICE doesn't start. But without pre-heating the ICE does start immediately and run for a minute or two: From what I can tell so far, the ICE shuts off when the heater is warm "enough", noticeable as the fan speed increases. The ICE does not start again after that.
(The higher the set cabin temperature the longer the ICE seems to run.)

One benefit of the box is that I no longer get unwanted ICE starts when pushing the pedal moderately hard - you have to really floor it to get the ICE to start.

It would be useful to know at what temperatures, interior and exterior, the ICE starts when using the heater in combination with the Phev Box - anyone here know?

 

[Jazydave]

I find ice stays off most of time as long as I'm in eco, heater OFF, and light right foot.

 

[Steel188]

Forgive me for asking, but I have never fully understood this, why on earth would you want to own a £35 - £50K car and then deliberately not heat the inside just to stop the heat source from starting? It’s a PHEV not a BEV. Your insights would be gratefully received.

 

[greendwarf]

I live, work and mostly drive in Inner London, so air quality is a real matter of life or death issue for me (especially at my age). I also have a 3 sided carport into which my front door opens. I have no wish to suck exhaust fumes into the house every time I travel.

 

[nils944]

If there was a BEV of similar size, towing capacity and price I would have bought it. So I'm amuzing myself by trying to operate it as a BEV. Everyone needs a hobby. Also, it does seem needless to polute the air if it can be relatively easily avoided.

@steel188, you implied the ICE being "the heat source", but in my vehicle there is a resistive (electric) heater that can (indirectly) heat the cabin, hence my reference to unneccesary ICE starts. Perhaps the electric cabin heater is not equiped on all vehicles.

 

[IslandLife]

We've had a "cold spell" here in Victoria on the southwest coast of BC, Canada. I've now found even with pre-heating... at temps of -3 to -10 or so, when the car has been sitting overnight at these same temps... that at some point early in my commute, it's basically impossible to keep the engine from running for a few minutes. Have tried all "tips and tricks", and it seems there is nothing that will stop the engine from starting when the battery is quite cold and you need to get to speed or maintain a speed of around 40 to 60 kph or faster.

It seems to kick in once I need to get up to speed and drive more quickly on the main roads. Pure speculation, but I believe the cold battery just simply cannot safely push enough juice and it needs help until it reaches sufficient temp. It does this in serial mode... so not sure if it's just to warm up the battery more quickly or something else.

I'm thinking the battery heater that is in this vehicle is purely a safety measure to help the batteries from every getting extremely cold while driving... maybe?

Either way, it's fine, it only runs for a few mins and then doesn't run again and seems to be a safety measure in place to keep our batteries happy and healthy. It makes sense that other pure EV's have more substantial battery heaters in place. Once I've been parked at my office in much warmer underground parking (about 15 degrees when it's -4), I regain quite a bit of range and the engine never starts.

In researching the issue more, battery temp management seems to be a something one should research fairly extensively before buying any full EV as it seems to vary greatly between models and can affect range as well as battery degradation significantly... especially if you live somewhere that experiences extreme heat and/or cold. Nissan seems to be doing the worst while Tesla seems to currently be doing one of the best jobs in this area... going to far as to heat the battery up when it knows you're going to a Super Charger so that by the time you plug-in, the battery is hot enough to accept charging at very high speeds right away rather than slowly ramping the charging speed as the battery heats up... smart.

 

[mellobob]

Did you try with the climate in your car completely off? Shouldn't be that big a deal since it's not all that cold, really, where you are. Try -30C

 

[IslandLife]

Did you try with the climate in your car completely off? Shouldn't be that big a deal since it's not all that cold, really, where you are. Try -30C

Yes, even with climate off... same results.

 

[mort]

Forgive me for asking, but I have never fully understood this, why on earth would you want to own a £35 - £50K car and then deliberately not heat the inside just to stop the heat source from starting? It’s a PHEV not a BEV. Your insights would be gratefully received.

At 41F and seat heat I have no need for cabin heat. I am already dressed for cold. 41F is mild.

 

[mort]

This occurrence was so random happening some mornings and not others even with the same variables, even happening after charging the car to full at work on days in the upper 40’s. I called the dealership, they have informed me that it is a known error with the software and have an update to stop it. I have not had the chance to have them preform the update but will keep you posted on results.

 

[mort]

Well I’m back,
Now the 18 PHEV will not stay in EV mode with ambient temperatures below 55.
Vehicle still drives 21 miles when it is eventually in all electric so it’s likely not battery degradation.
Mitsubishi service refuses to admit a design flaw.
Mitsubishi wants me to pay $600 for diagnosis.
Diagnosis will not reveal this issue from past experience.
Considering a complaint to the Washington state consumer protection department, BBB and lemon law reporting. This vehicle is no longer a usable PHEV in the winter, I now complete my 16 mile commute with 85% of battery remaining having consumed 1/4 of a gallon a day.
Totally disappointed.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

The car is almost certainly working exactly as it was designed to. If that isn't what you want, that's not a "design flaw", just a mismatch between your expectations and reality.

 

[nrayanov]

Well I’m back,
Now the 18 PHEV will not stay in EV mode with ambient temperatures below 55.
Vehicle still drives 21 miles when it is eventually in all electric so it’s likely not battery degradation.
Mitsubishi service refuses to admit a design flaw.
Mitsubishi wants me to pay $600 for diagnosis.
Diagnosis will not reveal this issue from past experience.
Considering a complaint to the Washington state consumer protection department, BBB and lemon law reporting. This vehicle is no longer a usable PHEV in the winter, I now complete my 16 mile commute with 85% of battery remaining having consumed 1/4 of a gallon a day.
Totally disappointed.

You can do the following to help your situation:
1. Keep the difference between the outside and inside temperature as little as possible, that would definitely reduce the engine turning off. The sensor used for that is inside the cabin, next to the steering wheel.
2. You can actually put a switch to make sure the engine doesn't turn on unless you want it to, a user in the forum has already done this. That would most certainly void the warranty.

 

[kpetrov]

Actually the switch will void warranty if you show it to them otherwise once removed they can't say it was there at all.
Moreover there was a recall on main engine relay where I am attaching the switch, so it is like induced malfunction to this relay.