Towing in hilly areas

[Jake3847]

Hi, I've got a 2018 2.4 outlander phev. I recently had a maiden trip to Anglesey from Lancashire. The car performed very well even on some quite big hills. I selected charge mode as I'd read on some previous posts. What I did notice was that the car performed much better in cruise control. If I pressed the accelerator the engine revved a lot but the car didn't pull away.
Our next trip was to Pembrokeshire. Same again, whilst on the motorway and trunk roads the car was great in cruise control around 50mph and in charge mode. However the last 30-40 miles are all twisty A roads with some big hills, 16% being the steepest and longest. With all the roundabouts I found it best to switch from charge to normal. That way I'd pull away on battery to say 40MPH then hit the cruise control and switch to charge mode again. But it's not long before the next junction or roundabout. All the time it's using up my battery and I've still got the 16% hill around three quarters of a mile long to climb then not long after that a 12% hill. I made it just! Am I expecting too much from the car or am I not driving it correctly with a caravan that weighs 1500kg? Should I stick to Norfolk next year?
Also would it be best to switch to sport for extreme hills like 16%?
And finally, when watching the vehicle info screen sometimes the engine block and front wheels turn orange. What does this mean?
Thanks in advance.

 

[jaapv]

Just keep it on charge all the way, don't stop it from keeping the battery as fulll as possible for tthe steep bits.

 

[zzcoopej]

when watching the vehicle info screen sometimes the engine block and front wheels turn orange. What does this mean?

Orange engine on the MMCS display means the engine is directly driving the front wheels (parallel hybrid mode).

Always CHARGE mode while towing. Although it seems "proper" to do slow speed towing on EV only, you are simply reducing the charge in the battery.

 

[user 3575]

We tow a 1500kg caravan with our 2.4 PHEV, we just let our battery discharge to about 80% then hit the charge button, when we first started we were overthinking trying all sorts of modes, especially when the engine is revving away at speeds below 45 mph, eventually you will learn to ignore it, once over 45 mph is goes into direct drive.

 

[Jake3847]

So don’t switch to battery or EV mode? Just pull away from junctions with the engine revving away?
And what about going up extremely steep hills. In charge mode the car and caravan were crawling! Switched to normal mode and it was much better.

 

[greendwarf]

The "over revving" is just like holding a low gear to pull away/overtake faster with a manual box - although if you are used to automatics then this is not so obvious a comparison. I agree that it is intrusive but only because you have got used to how quiet the car is normally..

However, like the others, I don't understand your experience on hills. As below 45mph the electric motors are doing all the work, it can make no difference to your speed whether the ICE is running or not, as it is merely being used to replenish the battery. If what you say is true then that would suggest there is something wrong with your car, which only a dealer is going to able to resolve.

 

[user 3575]

The "over revving" is just like holding a low gear to pull away/overtake faster with a manual box - although if you are used to automatics then this is not so obvious a comparison. I agree that it is intrusive but only because you have got used to how quiet the car is normally..

However, like the others, I don't understand your experience on hills. As below 45mph the electric motors are doing all the work, it can make no difference to your speed whether the ICE is running or not, as it is merely being used to replenish the battery. If what you say is true then that would suggest there is something wrong with your car, which only a dealer is going to able to resolve.

I may be wrong, I have never driven or towed with the 2.0 PHEV model, not sure if our 2.4 model performs in the same way as the 2.0.

When towing away from junction, roundabout etc including steep hills using electric its fine, if you press the accelerator harder and engage the ICE unit just revs, the harder you press the more the revs, there seems to be little very little difference in acceleration ? I have learnt to ignore the ICE revs and save the battery.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

If you regularly accelerate away from a standstill while towing in EV-mode, all your power is coming from the battery at a high 'C' level, which isn't good for the battery. Surely it's better for longevity of the battery to use the power from the ICE for high power applications and save the battery for lower-'C' usage.

 

[user 3575]

If you regularly accelerate away from a standstill while towing in EV-mode, all your power is coming from the battery at a high 'C' level, which isn't good for the battery. Surely it's better for longevity of the battery to use the power from the ICE for high power applications and save the battery for lower-'C' usage.

You are perfectly correct, however, I am assuming the Jake like myself have been used to towing with diesels, it is such a big jump to understanding and adjusting to towing with the Outlander PHEV, To date I have always used the speed limiter for towing.

 

[greendwarf]

The "over revving" is just like holding a low gear to pull away/overtake faster with a manual box - although if you are used to automatics then this is not so obvious a comparison. I agree that it is intrusive but only because you have got used to how quiet the car is normally..

However, like the others, I don't understand your experience on hills. As below 45mph the electric motors are doing all the work, it can make no difference to your speed whether the ICE is running or not, as it is merely being used to replenish the battery. If what you say is true then that would suggest there is something wrong with your car, which only a dealer is going to able to resolve.

I may be wrong, I have never driven or towed with the 2.0 PHEV model, not sure if our 2.4 model performs in the same way as the 2.0.

When towing away from junction, roundabout etc including steep hills using electric its fine, if you press the accelerator harder and engage the ICE unit just revs, the harder you press the more the revs, there seems to be little very little difference in acceleration ? I have learnt to ignore the ICE revs and save the battery.

Which, of course, is correct - once you have maxed out the power from the electric motors, all pressing the accelerator does is increase the revs but under 45mph can't use this for turning the wheels. Arguably this is a "design fault", but apparently the Japanese don't usually tow :idea:

 

[ChrisMiller]

Which, of course, is correct - once you have maxed out the power from the electric motors, all pressing the accelerator does is increase the revs but under 45mph can't use this for turning the wheels. Arguably this is a "design fault", but apparently the Japanese don't usually tow :idea:

You can't use the direct engine drive ('parallel' mode) under 45mph because there's a single fixed gear and the engine revs would be too low. Enabling it would require either multiple gears (heavy and complex) or something like a fluid coupling (less efficient).

 

[jaapv]

The "over revving" is just like holding a low gear to pull away/overtake faster with a manual box - although if you are used to automatics then this is not so obvious a comparison. I agree that it is intrusive but only because you have got used to how quiet the car is normally..

However, like the others, I don't understand your experience on hills. As below 45mph the electric motors are doing all the work, it can make no difference to your speed whether the ICE is running or not, as it is merely being used to replenish the battery. If what you say is true then that would suggest there is something wrong with your car, which only a dealer is going to able to resolve.

I may be wrong, I have never driven or towed with the 2.0 PHEV model, not sure if our 2.4 model performs in the same way as the 2.0.

When towing away from junction, roundabout etc including steep hills using electric its fine, if you press the accelerator harder and engage the ICE unit just revs, the harder you press the more the revs, there seems to be little very little difference in acceleration ? I have learnt to ignore the ICE revs and save the battery.

Which, of course, is correct - once you have maxed out the power from the electric motors, all pressing the accelerator does is increase the revs but under 45mph can't use this for turning the wheels. Arguably this is a "design fault", but apparently the Japanese don't usually tow :idea:

Not a very bad "design fault" when you consider that all the engine is doing is supplementing the electrical power through the generator. One might suppose that it is a desirable thing in these driving conditions.

 

[greendwarf]

And which supports the apparent overarching design requirement of protecting the drive battery & charge - ICE starting when cold etc. Given the failure of Nissan to do that in the Leaf (with resulting bad publicity in the US) it is unsurprising that their rivals have gone down this route with later models.

 

[grindersgrounds]

Hello, all!

Brand new owner (in USA); I drove home my 2021 PHEV three days ago, and it replaced a mid-size truck.

I hope to be able to tow my tent trailer that loaded weighs about 1500lbs (680kg), which I know won’t be a problem for most trips. But we often camp at a place in the mountains that includes an elevation gain of about 5000ft (1500m) over the course of 120 miles, with lots of ups and downs. All of the highways can be driven at speeds of 55-65mph with my truck and trailer or a car. Do you all think that I can reasonably drive this sort of route pulling this sort of weight with my Outlander? It has the new, larger rear motor, battery, and 2.4L ICE.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[zzcoopej]

Do you all think that I can reasonably drive this sort of route pulling this sort of weight with my Outlander?

Yes, no problem as long as you use Charge mode the entire trip you will be fine. I've towed double that weight with the old 2L PHEV and it does struggle a bit, however half the weight with a bigger engine and you could almost climb Everest!

 

[grindersgrounds]

Thanks for the reply, J. I’m looking forward to camping season again (not for quite a few months now).

 

[Carmageddon]

What happens if we tow like 5,000 lb and north of it?
I am interested in towing a large boat to a lake 40 minutes away without damaging the drive train or shear off the hitch.
I am concerned whether the hitch can withstand the load during pulling a boat out of the water, and drivetrain damage during the trip itself - although I assume drivetrain warranty would cover that as Mitsubishi would never be able to prove I towed exceeding the max limit.

I did tow with my current 2019 Hyundai Kona 2L gas which has no towing rating, using small class 1 receiver - towing a 2500+ pounds camper but just barely in manual mode and 4th gear, so I am hoping that the Outlander PHEV can manage 5-6 k pounds, given that there are no gears that could break in the transmission, wouldn't that just mean constant high revs to replenish the battery and/or provide more current into the engines to pull the 6k pounds?

 

[greendwarf]

So higher revs generating extra energy to overcome the excess mass, will mean more heat in the motors. if you are lucky they will just cut out due the overload but if not they will burn out - expensive! :idea:

 

[Carmageddon]

So higher revs generating extra energy to overcome the excess mass, will mean more heat in the motors. if you are lucky they will just cut out due the overload but if not they will burn out - expensive! :idea:

Hmm you think those are the more likely scenarios? Cut out due to overload or burning out?

Let's analyze these two:
If it cuts out - that's obviously not functional for towing.
If it overheating - how can this be? There's no friction in electric engines, unlike classic transmission and engines where you would normally add transmission cooler radiator to mitigate the extra load, so I don't understand why this is a likely scenario?
Assuming that it is - why would it be expensive? I assume there's no way that MMC can prove I violated the terms of warranty by exceeding the recommended limit?
Although even after warranty replacement, I would be back to square one in regards to towing needs..

Wish we'd get someone test its actual towing limitations on a YouTube video!

 

[Carmageddon]

So higher revs generating extra energy to overcome the excess mass, will mean more heat in the motors. if you are lucky they will just cut out due the overload but if not they will burn out - expensive! :idea:

I was inspired by your post to further try googling, I found this:
https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/62021/what-happens-when-one-hugely-exceeds-towing-capacity-of-an-electric-vehicle

I think the next move, is to get confirmation from MMC engineering as to whether the Outlander has such overheating protections in place.
Any ideas how to do so?

My other idea is to just test drive one, and try to pull a heavy boat like that somewhere, assuming someone would agree to let me test on their boat.. might not though.