Towing anybody?

[Clarkey4x4]

Hi,

I am going to be using my new Phev to tow my caravan to the alps in July this year and was wondering if anyone had done the same kind of journey and had any experiences they could share? Couple of questions,

- Are there any charging points on French motorways and how would I go about using them (I have researched but am unable to find out any info!)

- Do I need to keep the battery at full charge all the time. I am really confused as some people appear to say use Save others say use Charge, does anyone have any definitive answers?

- What kind of MPG have you experienced towing and what MTPLM were you towing?

Any thoughts much appreciated

Thanks

 

[anko]

Here we go ....

Forget about Fast Chargers. At best they will give you 10 miles EV range after each stop (what's the point?) but they increase wear and tear on your battery. Just keep driving

Yes, keep your battery as full as possible. You will need the charge at some point. Depending on your speed and caravan size and weight, Save on't do this for you. This is why:

Without using Save or Charge mode, there is a low mark of about 30% for the SOC. The engine is turned on as soon as the SOC drops to the low mark and runs for a while propelling the car and enhancing the SOC. Than it is turned off again, until the SOC drops to the low mark again. And so on. With Save mode, you get the same behaviour, but with a low mark higher than 30%.
But at some points, for example during acceleration, strong head wind, little climbing or other suboptimal conditions, the SOC will drop below the set low mark. From that moment on, that lower SOC will be the new low mark. The system will notary to get back to the previous level. Therefore, you should use Charge instead. And still, again depending on your speed and caravan size and weight, most likely you will not be able to maintain your SOC. Over a 160 mile trip from the Netherlands to Belgium (no hills, just a few bridges), I managed to arrive with 4 miles EV range left.

Please see http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1057 for some background as to why you cannot maintain SOC even in Charge mode.

I've been able to do 206 miles on between fill-ups. This was including crossing the Belgium Ardennes. Was quite happy with that.
I've been able to do 23.2 MPG on a 1250 mile trip from the Netherlands to Chambery, France and back. Again, quite happy with that.

My caravan has an MPTLM of 1500 kg and is 2.30 meters wide.

 

[Clarkey4x4]

Thanks so much for the info, great to hear your thoughts! I will be driving around 900 miles each way and my caravan is 1250 mtplm, thanks for making me realise that I don't need to worry about charging while towing, also just need to see if I can find any local charging points when I'm travelling without the van!

Thanks again for taking the time!

 

[anko]

Your welcome. If you are really interested in charging while on the road, you may want to get yourself a switchable portable mode 2 charger. I have one that can be set to 6, 10 or 16 amp and have been using it one various campsites (Netherlands, Belgium and France) without issues.

It is a rather big investment, but I bought mine (predecessor of http://www.charge-amps.com/spark/) for day-by-day use and did not have to spent any money on a wall mounted charger (we do not get those for free).

BTW: My "achievements" were at a cruising speed of about 58 MPH.

 

[Goldfinger]

Curious with that link to the 'spark' charging lead...

With being able to charge at 6/10/16 amps, could we use them to charge the vehicle in the UK via our caravan electrics when on sites in the UK??

If we can charge at a lower rate, there shouldn't be a risk of tripping the site's or your own electrics in the caravan. Lets say overnight when all other electrics are not in use??

 

[anko]

Curious with that link to the 'spark' charging lead...

With being able to charge at 6/10/16 amps, could we use them to charge the vehicle in the UK via our caravan electrics when on sites in the UK??

If we can charge at a lower rate, there shouldn't be a risk of tripping the site's or your own electrics in the caravan. Lets say overnight when all other electrics are not in use??

I used it that way .... but not in the UK.

 

[SMB]

When towing such a long way doesn't the scream of the high reving engine get on your nerves after a while?

 

[BeeJay]

Curious with that link to the 'spark' charging lead...

With being able to charge at 6/10/16 amps, could we use them to charge the vehicle in the UK via our caravan electrics when on sites in the UK??

If we can charge at a lower rate, there shouldn't be a risk of tripping the site's or your own electrics in the caravan. Lets say overnight when all other electrics are not in use??

You could just plug in the EVSE charger that comes with the car to charge your car at the campsite. It only draws 10A.

I made myself a 16A commando to waterproof 13A UK socket via RCD by putting a 16A commando plug onto one of these:
http://www.diy.com/departments/masterplug-13a-rcd-adaptor-05m/202121_BQ.prd

This means you can plug the cable that comes with the car into a commando in safety outdoors. A lot cheaper than buying a new cable...

Had to use it the other day when I was in a car park and the only available socket was a 16A commando - very handy.

 

[anko]

When towing such a long way doesn't the scream of the high reving engine get on your nerves after a while?

I think about 90% of the time it just runs in parallel mode.

 

[SiG]

Hi Clarkey,

We're going to be touring a 1400kg caravan around the Alps region (destination lakes Konstanz and Garda) in July so we may see you! - and I'm also concerned about the hilly climbs even if we take the lower passes.

We last ventured that way in 2001 with a '72 bay window Type 2 VW. At that time the challenge was coming down; I felt the need to dowse the brakes with buckets of water periodically (glad I did as we met another type 2 with seized brakes).

This time it's the climb that concerns me - so much so that I'm considering using the branded works Navara for the family hols just to guarantee no dramas.

If anyone has experience of prolonged climbing with a sizable caravan on the PHEV, please let us know how you got on!

Cheers, Si

 

[maby]

Here we go ....

...
But at some points, for example during acceleration, strong head wind, little climbing or other suboptimal conditions, the SOC will drop below the set low mark. From that moment on, that lower SOC will be the new low mark. The system will notary to get back to the previous level. ...
....

I think this is a bit of an oversimplification, you know. It certainly will top up the charge in Save mode when it is running in parallel hybrid - I saw it do so this afternoon. I left the house with a full charge on a relatively long journey and selected Save soon after - with an almost full battery (just one bar down on the display). I joined the motorway, accelerating hard to merge with traffic and saw that the charge level dropped back another bar, with the car switching to parallel hybrid mode. I cruised at around 50mph for about 20 minutes with the display showing parallel hybrid, engine drive to the front wheels, charge to the battery and no electric drive to either axle - after about ten minutes, the battery was back up to one bar from full.

I have seen the same behaviour in parallel hybrid mode before - the battery does charge up in Save mode. I think it is less clear in serial hybrid mode, but I do believe that it does try to charge back up to the SOC when Save is pressed. Again, this afternoon, I left the motorway and was driving in relatively slow traffic in Save mode. The battery dropped to three bars below full and when I came to a line of stop-start traffic, the engine remained running with the car stationary and the display indicating that it was charging. The heating was off, so this was not down to burning petrol to heat the car. The stop-start traffic only lasted a few minutes, so there wan not enough time for it to make a noticeable difference to the battery level.

So, I do believe that it does try to top the battery back up in Save mode, but it is not particularly aggressive in recharging. I think the issue with losing charge in Save mode is more a case of stopping before the battery level has been regained at which point that lower level becomes the new target SOC in Save mode when you restart.

 

[anko]

My source: http://www.deautoavenue.nl/upload_bestanden/PHEV_Caravan.pdf

Q / Blijft de aandrijfaccu geladen als ik de stand “SAVE” of “CHARGE” gebruik?
A / Ja, maar er zijn uitzonderingen. Bij het rijden met een zware caravan en / of belading bijvoorbeeld. Om een goede aandrijving in stand te houden wordt er in zo’n geval toch stroom aan de aandrijfaccu onttrokken; ook als de “SAVE” of “CHARGE” stand actief is. Tevens voorziet de aandrijfaccu comfortsystemen als de airconditioning van stroom. Het verbruik hiervan is beperkt, maar zal vooral op de langere afstanden stroom uit de aandrijfaccu halen. In de “SAVE” stand wordt dit niet aangevuld. Als de auto in de “CHARGE” stand staat, zal de aandrijfaccu bijladen op de momenten dat dit mogelijk is (lees: als de verbrandingsmotor kracht over heeft). Normaal gesproken is dit vooral het geval bij snelheden onder de 80 kilometer per uur.

Google translation:

Q / Does the drive battery charged if I use the "SAVE" or "CHARGE"?
A / Yes, but there are exceptions. When driving with a heavy caravan and / or load for example. In order to maintain a good drive is in such a case still stream withdrawn from the drive battery; even if the "SAVE" or "CHARGE" mode is active. It also provides the drive battery comfort systems like the air conditioning power. The consumption of this is limited, but will mainly longer distances to pick up the current from the drive battery. In the "SAVE" position will not be filled this. If the car in the "CHARGE" mode, the drive battery will be recharged at times when this is possible (read: as the engine power is on). Normally, this is especially true at speeds below 80 miles per hour.

Enanced Google translation:

Q / Does the drive battery stay charged if I use the "SAVE" or "CHARGE"?
A / Yes, but there are exceptions. When driving with a heavy caravan and / or load for example. In order to have sufficiënt driving power in such a case, power will be drawn from the drive battery; even when the "SAVE" or "CHARGE" mode is active. The drive battery also provides comfort systems like the air conditioning with power. The consumption of this is limited, but on longer distances it can be noticed. In the "SAVE" position this lost power will not be replaced. If the car is in the "CHARGE" mode, the drive battery will be recharged at times when this is possible (read: as the engine power is on). Normally, this is especially true at speeds below 80 miles per hour.