Thinking of buying. lots of questions

[thinfourth]

Due to a new puppy in our life it looks like we need to trade in our faithful fiat Panda. As a fully grown great dane won't fit in the boot. Especially when the Italian mastiff (cane corso) and wee fat staffy are already in there.

At the same time there is a lone man with a shovel standing in the middle of the A90 so traffic heading home from Aberdeen has become stupid.

I would like a Nissan Leaf so i can waft around in total silence and ignore traffic, petrol stations and other annoying stuff in life. i had one on a 4 day test drive and was about to buy before i my natural tight git came out.

The wife wants an "Normal" car so she can go down south to dog shows.

So the PHEV seems like a reasonable compromise.

It will be in addition to the double cab pick-up, landrover defender, BMW Z4 we already have. We live in a VERY rural area so parking on the drive next to a 3 pin plug is not an issue. We already have 4 outdoor plugs so that won't be an issue.

Budget is up to £20K but want to spend as little as possible.

We have test driven a GX3 or whatever the model number is (little radio not brat nav) with a completely flat hybrid battery so have half an idea what it is like. We are also looking at the auris estate hybrid which is nice.


So here come the questions

One of my favourite things about the leaf was you could set the timer for the heating and you would magically come out to a nice warm car. Is this doable with the PHEV?

if Yes what effects does it have on the car?

I gather the heater is both from the engine and the battery via a resistive heater which warms the engine also?

I like my silence so is there a quick and easy way to stop the engine starting up when starting off in the morning?

Is there any fundamental differences between a GX3, 4, 4s or is this just frippery and bull?

How awful is the AWD system i see some threads saying it is completely useless. We live down a farm track which can get a bit muddy and slippy at times. Is this just internet exaggeration?

We tend to fit everything either permanently with winter tyres (no we haven't died yet) or swap wheels over. How upset does the car get if you don't bother with tyre pressure sensors? i have eyeballs and can tell when the wheel has a flat bit.

What is the smallest wheel that will fit as MASSIVE alloys look great in the showroom but are utterly pants everywhere else?

How expensive is a towbar as i need to tow the dustbins to the end of the road once a week.?

What can it comfortable tow as I will abuse it at some point. My normal trailer is 800Kg empty?

Anyone found a good dog guard for the PHEV.?

Anyone fitted a dog ramp to get into the boot?

Anything to look out for on a 2nd hand one?

Is there any stupidly cheap new deals going about?



And any other thoughts

 

[thinfourth]

Oh more questions

How long to charge on the 10amp granny lead?

Is it worth getting a dedicated charger installed?

How easy is it to install a charger as i would be doing it DIY as the hassle to find an installer locally is less then running a cable and screwing in a few wires.

 

[thinfourth]

Oh and i should really finish my coffee before pushing POST

The normal routine will be charge overnight

Drive 20 miles to work on B roads, A roads Dual carriageway

Then park up without a charger

The drive home via Dual carriageway, carpark, A roads, b roads

Plug into charger

have beer (me not the car)


What kind of MPG can i expect?


Also what kind of long distance MPG can we expect like driving down to the independent workers republic of glasgow

 

[maby]

Oh and i should really finish my coffee before pushing POST

The normal routine will be charge overnight

Drive 20 miles to work on B roads, A roads Dual carriageway

Then park up without a charger

The drive home via Dual carriageway, carpark, A roads, b roads

Plug into charger

have beer (me not the car)


What kind of MPG can i expect?


Also what kind of long distance MPG can we expect like driving down to the independent workers republic of glasgow

MPG on petrol ranges between about 42 if you drive reasonably gently and don't exceed around 60mph down to 30(ish) in the cold or if you thrash it. On a long motorway cruise obeying the (UK) speed limits, you should have no difficulty getting 35mpg and might do a bit better.

Claimed EV range is around 30 miles, but you only get that if you drive it like a milk float - I reckon I'm doing ok if I get 20 - but high speed cruising will pull it down further. So, looking at your daily drive - that's a 40 mile round trip without charging. I would expect to do 20 of that on petrol and get around 30mpg. That figure seems low, but you have to understand that petrol consumption in the first few miles with a cold engine is always higher - instantaneous figures around 20mpg are not uncommon in the first five miles. Putting it all together, half your daily journey will use little, if any, petrol and the other half will be at 30mpg - resulting in 60mpg across the day.

That is probably around the worst case - with no heating or aircon turned on and a light right foot, it may be possible to do a bit better. In general, PHEV running costs are easy enough to model - assume the first 20 to 25 miles cost around 10 kWh of electricity at whatever tariff you pay and the rest of the trip costs around 35mpg - that way you will not go far wrong.

Strategy for minimising running costs is a hot topic here and several people have run tests. Trex has done some detailed testing which he has described in posts on this forum. He disagrees with the way I use the car and claims that I could improve my fuel consumption my almost 10% if I followed his recommendations - hence my comments above about "worst case" figures.

 

[ps44]

I'll have a go at answering some of these based on 6 months ownership.

One of my favourite things about the LEAF was you could set the timer for the heating and you would magically come out to a nice warm car. Is this doable with the PHEV?
>> Yes, you can programme heating and charging with the timer, or if you don't need to do that you can start either using the PHEV app on pad/phone. Since I'm not a wage slave any more I do heating on demand if I'm going out early: turn on the heater from the app, and turn the charging back on if it's finished, 10 mins later it's toasty and the charging just about keeps up with the heater drain.

if Yes what effects does it have on the car?
>> Err, it's warm ! You can opt for defrost which turns on the screen heater, or general cabin heating. I think some of those in colder climates pre-heat for up to 30 mins.
It will drain the battery slightly with a 10amp charger on, but a fast charge can more than keep up. I think someone's done the numbers on this in a thread somewhere.

I gather the heater is both from the engine and the battery via a resistive heater which warms the engine also?
>> Not sure, this has come up in a number of threads. I don't think it warms the engine.

I like my silence so is there a quick and easy way to stop the engine starting up when starting off in the morning?
>> Turn on Eco Mode, drive gently, and use the heating sparingly if it's cold. Whataver you do, below a certain temp the engine will run for a short while to warm up in case you need to boot it.
Lots of threads on this topic, what works for me is to start with heating off, or at lowest setting, and only increase it gradually. It helps if you've pre-heated. Only really problem on days when it's below about 5C.

Is there any fundamental differences between a GX3, 4, 4s or is this just frippery and bull?
>> Trim level and feature content mainly. The online brochures will give you the matrix, basic product underneath is the same. The bottom of this page has a summary, but I think it's for the new MY so if you're buying used will be a bit different http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/explore-phev.aspx
Don't think the 3 has the MMCS satnav/audio/phone, which some complain about but I'm fine with. The s has adaptive cruise which I wanted and should probably have got, and I think parking sensors but the cameras as pretty good (so long as you keep the lenses clean !).

We tend to fit everything either permanently with winter tyres (no we haven't died yet) or swap wheels over. How upset does the car get if you don't bother with tyre pressure sensors? i have eyeballs and can tell when the wheel has a flat bit.
>> Don't have them on my car. This does seem to be a standard change that the cold climate drivers make so probably no real issues.

How expensive is a towbar as i need to tow the dustbins to the end of the road once a week.?
>> Had mine fitted by Mitsu before pickup. Couple of hundred I think, but I just wanted it rolled into the price. There's been some comments about wiring in being a bit tricky.

What can it comfortable tow as I will abuse it at some point. My normal trailer is 800Kg empty?
>> Mines for bike carrier and small trailer. Seem to be some caravanners on here - I saw one doing this the other day. There's a few tips on saving charge for the hills that you should read up on.

How long to charge on the 10amp granny lead?
>> Mine's mostly done overnight so I don't know, but I think about 5 hours based on the odd day time charging that I do. Easily fits within the off peak period.

Is it worth getting a dedicated charger installed?
>> Didn't seem worth it to me, I just extended the garage main to give me a socket by the door.

>> Comments above on range/consumption look about same as my experience.

 

[maby]

I'll have a go at answering some of these based on 6 months ownership.

One of my favourite things about the LEAF was you could set the timer for the heating and you would magically come out to a nice warm car. Is this doable with the PHEV?
>> Yes, you can programme heating and charging with the timer, or if you don't need to do that you can start either using the PHEV app on pad/phone. Since I'm not a wage slave any more I do heating on demand if I'm going out early: turn on the heater from the app, and turn the charging back on if it's finished, 10 mins later it's toasty and the charging just about keeps up with the heater drain.

...
>> Comments above on range/consumption look about same as my experience.

Do note that the electric heater and programmable pre-heat were GX4 specific options in early PHEVs - I think that may have partially changed more recently....

 

[ps44]

Yeah, should have said that I have a 16 plate GX4h.

 

[Grigou]

"How awful is the AWD system i see some threads saying it is completely useless. We live down a farm track which can get a bit muddy and slippy at times. Is this just internet exaggeration?"

Are you sure that you've seen some threads saying that the AWD is completely useless ?

... or is it just YOUR contribution at internet exaggeration ?

Yes, some thread(s) say(s) that the AWD is not efficient in certain circumstances (and I agree with that). But "completely useless" ... :shock: :?:

 

[maby]

"How awful is the AWD system i see some threads saying it is completely useless. We live down a farm track which can get a bit muddy and slippy at times. Is this just internet exaggeration?"

Are you sure that you've seen some threads saying that the AWD is completely useless ?

... or is it just YOUR contribution at internet exaggeration ?

Yes, some thread(s) say(s) that the AWD is not efficient in certain circumstances (and I agree with that). But "completely useless" ... :shock: :?:

Mitsubishi describe the PHEV as a "Softroader, not an Off-Roader" - the 4WD will help it cross a poor road surface, but should not be expected to cope with deep mud or seriously uneven surfaces.

 

[elm70]

Mitsubishi describe the PHEV as a "Softroader, not an Off-Roader" - the 4WD will help it cross a poor road surface, but should not be expected to cope with deep mud or seriously uneven surfaces.

I believe there is nothing wrong with AWD from PHEV, actually is even a proper 4x4 with a virtual lock between front and back axe

The only limitations of the PHEV are the tyres (which people are free to change) .. and ground clearance (which eventually people can modify by replacing the suspensions) .. a part from this .. the PHEV is as good as any good 4x4 can be ... with the only limit of just 180HP and 1.8T weight ... but most off-road dont have much power nor are much lighter

Different then some "fake" AWD which front or back traction get engaged only in detected slippery situations, the PHEV is a permanent AWD or better a permanent 4x4 ... only exception is when driving in pure ICE mode that is a quite a specific and rare mode to have on the PHEV (not happening under 70km/h speed .. as well not happening if 4x4 lock button is pressed , and in many other conditions)

 

[Grigou]

Mitsubishi describe the PHEV as a "Softroader, not an Off-Roader" - the 4WD will help it cross a poor road surface, but should not be expected to cope with deep mud or seriously uneven surfaces.

I believe there is nothing wrong with AWD from PHEV, actually is even a proper 4x4 with a virtual lock between front and back axe
....

I wouldn't say that.
Many of us know that torque in the rear wheels can be insufficient on a slope when a front wheel begins to slip. So the "virtual lock" is very limited (3 wheels not moving at all + 1 wheel spinning is NOT a virtual lock !).

 

[maby]

Mitsubishi describe the PHEV as a "Softroader, not an Off-Roader" - the 4WD will help it cross a poor road surface, but should not be expected to cope with deep mud or seriously uneven surfaces.

I believe there is nothing wrong with AWD from PHEV, actually is even a proper 4x4 with a virtual lock between front and back axe

The only limitations of the PHEV are the tyres (which people are free to change) .. and ground clearance (which eventually people can modify by replacing the suspensions) .. a part from this .. the PHEV is as good as any good 4x4 can be ... with the only limit of just 180HP and 1.8T weight ... but most off-road dont have much power nor are much lighter

Different then some "fake" AWD which front or back traction get engaged only in detected slippery situations, the PHEV is a permanent AWD or better a permanent 4x4 ... only exception is when driving in pure ICE mode that is a quite a specific and rare mode to have on the PHEV (not happening under 70km/h speed .. as well not happening if 4x4 lock button is pressed , and in many other conditions)

It's far too fragile, lacks diff locks and lacks suspension articulation compared with a genuine off-roader. The PHEV is a perfectly fine soft-roader, but would never complete a proper off-road course and attempting to do so would soon wreck it. I have driven Landrovers and Landcruisers at significant speed across an obstacle course and they have still been fit to drive home on the motorway. The same treatment of a PHEV would, in all probability, leave it in need of a flatback to get it to the nearest Mitsubishi dealer.

 

[elm70]

I wouldn't say that.
Many of us know that torque in the rear wheels can be insufficient on a slope when a front wheel begins to slip. So the "virtual lock" is very limited (3 wheels not moving at all + 1 wheel spinning is NOT a virtual lock !).

I have not done any extreme off road on my PHEV .. so never been in such situation.

But I don't see why a front tyre spinning should cause a rear axes to be "stuck" .. there are two independent motors and two independent differential involved

Anyhow ... back to the condition request: be able to drive in the mud in a country side road ... I think the PHEV can do the job with easy .. assuming the tyres are not very "wrong" for the job

I only tested my PHEV on the snow ... and it does provide a good grip thanks to the AWD/4x4 with dual electric motor.

 

[jaapv]

"How awful is the AWD system i see some threads saying it is completely useless. We live down a farm track which can get a bit muddy and slippy at times. Is this just internet exaggeration?"

Are you sure that you've seen some threads saying that the AWD is completely useless ?

... or is it just YOUR contribution at internet exaggeration ?

Yes, some thread(s) say(s) that the AWD is not efficient in certain circumstances (and I agree with that). But "completely useless" ... :shock: :?:

Mitsubishi describe the PHEV as a "Softroader, not an Off-Roader" - the 4WD will help it cross a poor road surface, but should not be expected to cope with deep mud or seriously uneven surfaces.

Exctly that, and 4WD will help in road holding.There are many 4WD cars like that. Nobody would call a 4WD Jaguar X-Type an off-roader for instance. Or the Jensen FF, the first modern 4WD car. - (the 1903 Spyker was the first btw.)

 

[thinfourth]

I wouldn't say that.
Many of us know that torque in the rear wheels can be insufficient on a slope when a front wheel begins to slip. So the "virtual lock" is very limited (3 wheels not moving at all + 1 wheel spinning is NOT a virtual lock !).

I have not done any extreme off road on my PHEV .. so never been in such situation.

But I don't see why a front tyre spinning should cause a rear axes to be "stuck" .. there are two independent motors and two independent differential involved

Anyhow ... back to the condition request: be able to drive in the mud in a country side road ... I think the PHEV can do the job with easy .. assuming the tyres are not very "wrong" for the job

I only tested my PHEV on the snow ... and it does provide a good grip thanks to the AWD/4x4 with dual electric motor.

Thats the sort of answer i was looking for

I have a 2 landrover defenders one of which is fitted with tree sliders, rock guards, a winch bumper and a full external rollcage. And the other is a bit less sensible as it has most of that and a trayback and a 2 inch lift.

And a unimog 404 which is a on going project which has been fitted with 40inch tyres from a tractor and has 2 foot of ground clearance

So extreme offroading is covered

I am more interested in is it completely foxed by a slightly slippy road

 

[maby]

...

I am more interested in is it completely foxed by a slightly slippy road

Well, it isn't - think more Aldi Quattro than Landrover Defender - traction is not at all bad even with the factory supplied tyres - many here have replaced them and report even better results.

 

[thinfourth]

...

I am more interested in is it completely foxed by a slightly slippy road

Well, it isn't - think more Aldi Quattro than Landrover Defender - traction is not at all bad even with the factory supplied tyres - many here have replaced them and report even better results.

I would hope it is smarter then a defender 4x4 system

But that is drifting off topic

We also have a izuzu D-max pickup

That is utterly defeated by wet grass until you push the 4x4 button at which point the steering becomes marginally useless

So lets say i am happy with the 4x4 system which will only be used when it is cold

Speaking of when it is cold

Anyone got more details on how the heater etc works

 

[jaapv]

It is quite effective and is supplemented (when electrical heating is fitted) by the coolant heating of the ICE if needed.
Using preheat is advisable to minimize startup of the ICE in the first few km.
As for traction on slippery roads, my experience with deep snow -including steep slopes- has been more than satisfactory. Don't forget to switch off traction control in such circumstances.

 

[maby]

...

I am more interested in is it completely foxed by a slightly slippy road

Well, it isn't - think more Aldi Quattro than Landrover Defender - traction is not at all bad even with the factory supplied tyres - many here have replaced them and report even better results.

I would hope it is smarter then a defender 4x4 system

....

Well, there is certainly more technology involved, but I don't think that the result is any "smarter" than the Defender. Modern Defenders have locks on the centre and rear diff at least - don't they also have front diff locks? They also have the low ratio transfer box, so you have a pretty wide range of control over how power gets delivered to the ground. The PHEV has no locks on either axle and the centre diff lock is "virtual" - if you lose traction on either axle, the available power is halved because it can't be transferred to the other axle.

 

[Grigou]

It is quite effective and is supplemented (when electrical heating is fitted) by the coolant heating of the ICE if needed.
Using preheat is advisable to minimize startup of the ICE in the first few km.
As for traction on slippery roads, my experience with deep snow -including steep slopes- has been more than satisfactory. Don't forget to switch off traction control in such circumstances.

Globally my experiences on snow were very satisfying too.

The only problem I can mention (and I'm not the only one having mentioned it) is when a front wheel begins to spin, for example if you try to start on steep slope with a lot of snow. In this circumstance the rear motor torque can be insufficient to make the car moving. It's a reality, it happened to me 2 times this winter.
No winter tyres, 32000 km tyres : it is quite natural to see a front wheel spinning on snow sometimes. What is unnatural is that nothing happens on the rear axle.

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