boyelectric
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So, is the Outlander PHEV using the ICE to generate heat for the occupants, or is it using resistive heat?
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Resistive heat, or ICE dependent?
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boyelectric
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BTW, after having my plug-in Prius for a while now in winter, a resistive heater that can be set to 'pre-heat' the car before driving (before unplugging), seems essential. Otherwise the ICE just comes on for most of my short commute.
zackreynolds
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It does seem essential to have a resistive heater to heat the car otherwise you would lose all the benefits of having a plug-in hybrid in the winter months. I have looked to see what kind of heater the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has, but have been unable to find the answer to this question.
boyelectric
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Hmmm... I found this page, but the Google translation from Japanese to English leaves much to be desired:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/reference/newmodelfaq/outlanderphev/1-1.html#q36
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/reference/newmodelfaq/outlanderphev/1-1.html#q36
boyelectric
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Fromt he Google translation, I seems that the heater for occupants my use the ICE. Bummers.
Yeah the reports seem to unanimously say that the Outlander is going to use the ICE, which is definitely a bad move for Mitsubishi, I still kinda have hope that the European models are going to use the resistive heat.
Does anybody know why would they use ICE is there a big price difference or is it some mechanical reason?
Does anybody know why would they use ICE is there a big price difference or is it some mechanical reason?
Garrett
Active member
Using the engine as the heat source is good for the EV range. However when starting at cold, you can never use the car as EV as the heating requires the engine to run. Using resistive heat would pretty much deplete the battery in a jiffy.
What I really want is that Mitsubishi thinks about the possibility to install an additional fuel heater (Webasto or Eberspächer). This would be the best of all worlds. ie. Webasto will consume about a liter (quarter of a gallon) of fuel in an hour and it generates 5 kW of heating power.
Mitsubishi should integrate the control of the separate fuel heater to their remote app OR make sure the heating system of the car can be woken up by a signal from Webasto. (to control the temperature and the airflow to necessary directions)
In that case it could pre-heat the inside of the car AND the ICE and eventually when the engine has to start it would be closer to normal working temperature = no cold starts for the engine = less fuel used and less wear to the engine.
Unless Mitsubishi dealer explicitely tells me not to install Webasto to PHEV, I will do this.
What I really want is that Mitsubishi thinks about the possibility to install an additional fuel heater (Webasto or Eberspächer). This would be the best of all worlds. ie. Webasto will consume about a liter (quarter of a gallon) of fuel in an hour and it generates 5 kW of heating power.
Mitsubishi should integrate the control of the separate fuel heater to their remote app OR make sure the heating system of the car can be woken up by a signal from Webasto. (to control the temperature and the airflow to necessary directions)
In that case it could pre-heat the inside of the car AND the ICE and eventually when the engine has to start it would be closer to normal working temperature = no cold starts for the engine = less fuel used and less wear to the engine.
Unless Mitsubishi dealer explicitely tells me not to install Webasto to PHEV, I will do this.
The Dutch brochure says this for the Instyle: "Dual-zone climate control met elektrische verwarming en standkachel functie" which I understand to mean it has both electrical heating and the parking-heating system . No indication of whether the "standkachel functie" (parking heating), is petrol/gasoline or electric but I guess it is electric since it is in the same sentence as the " elektrische vervarming" (electrical heating) statement. Note: that this is on the Instyle, not on the Intense.
My dealer tells me that he will receive mine on the 14th of November.
My dealer tells me that he will receive mine on the 14th of November.
boyelectric
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David said:
Whoa! Now that would make sense! A heater that can be programmed or remotely activated while charging on AC, AND a ICE based heater while driving, since, as others have pointed out, a resistive heater would chew up your drive battery in a real hurry!
Garrett
Active member
mitchell said:
Webasto is more familiar to me. Their website is at www.webasto.com. They also make softtops for vehicles, but browse through automotive - heating. The you'll find information. For pictures, use Google picture search with ie. Webasto Thermo Top Evo - That is their newest version.
Installation is not a straight forward job. I do only about one install per year, and it takes me 8 hours for a complete install. It helps tremendously if a vehicle manufacturer has taken the possiility to install such a parking heater into account./So far I know only of Audis of certain year that only need a trigger to activate the whole AC/heating control panel.
ActionableMango
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Electric-based climate control is a huge advantage in my opinion. One of the huge benefits of an EV would be to walk into a car that is heated (or cooled) and windscreen defrosted, ready to go at the same time every morning. As opposed to sitting in a freezing car for 10 minutes waiting to be able to see outside the glass. Yes you can accomplish this with petrol, but not in a garage.
I thought there was already a Mitsubishi smartphone app that included programming timed environmental controls, so I will be really disappointed if this is not the case.
I thought there was already a Mitsubishi smartphone app that included programming timed environmental controls, so I will be really disappointed if this is not the case.
The smartphone app is part of the Instyle package.
I found a picture of it on this page:
http://www.glynhopkin-mitsubishi.co.uk/innovation/outlander.aspx
I found a picture of it on this page:
http://www.glynhopkin-mitsubishi.co.uk/innovation/outlander.aspx
David said:
I'm really excited about the introduction of apps to the new EVs because when hackers and app developers get a hold of the cars electrical systems we are going to see some wild things that are drastically going to improve the drive experience of EVs like Mitsubishi Outlander...
I can only give you a link to the Dutch brochure. You will find the different versions on page 6
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.nl/upl...Contents/Outlander PHEV 8 Leaflet low pix.pdf
Standaarduitrusting = standard equipment
The Instyle has extra equipment over the Intense one of which is the addition of "Mitsubishi Remote Control controlled by iOS or Android app ( information, among other things, about the driving range and the active climate control)"
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.nl/upl...Contents/Outlander PHEV 8 Leaflet low pix.pdf
Standaarduitrusting = standard equipment
The Instyle has extra equipment over the Intense one of which is the addition of "Mitsubishi Remote Control controlled by iOS or Android app ( information, among other things, about the driving range and the active climate control)"
Newspaperboy
Active member
Dear All,
I'm looking to purchase the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. In the UK the trim I'm looking at is the GX3h. See: http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/models.aspx?Trim=phevGX3h This trim doesn't include the Electric Heater which is standard on the GX4h and above.
I'm now nervous that all the fuel cost saving that I'll do in the summer will be lost in the winter as the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) will need to run to provide heat. So in Glasgow I'll need heat from October through to April.
Has anyone calculated the cost of heating the car using the ICE and is it significant. I have a 7 mile commute to work?
I'm looking to purchase the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. In the UK the trim I'm looking at is the GX3h. See: http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/models.aspx?Trim=phevGX3h This trim doesn't include the Electric Heater which is standard on the GX4h and above.
I'm now nervous that all the fuel cost saving that I'll do in the summer will be lost in the winter as the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) will need to run to provide heat. So in Glasgow I'll need heat from October through to April.
Has anyone calculated the cost of heating the car using the ICE and is it significant. I have a 7 mile commute to work?
Re resistive heat or ICE heat.
I took delivery of my PHEV, with resistive heat option, in January. I live near Amsterdam. I don’t imagine that the weather here is so different to Glasgow.
It’s not easy to figure out what is working when. Mitsubishi have done an excellent job in making the change between the different modes as undetectable as could be possible. If it wasn’t for the dashboard display you wouldn’t know if the PHEV was in Electric, Serial or Parallel mode; and as for when it is in resistive heat or ICE heat modes? Well there isn’t a display to tell me so anything I say has to be a complete guess.
In January I notice that the instant I started the car the ICE would start up. This was clearly to provide heating since the battery was fully charged. I have to guess that in January the temperature was too low for resistive heat to be enough. At the moment – May – it doesn’t do that although the temperature has been 10 degrees C in the mornings. Do I notice difference in range between the winter and now? Maybe. I have the feeling that I can go further on the batteries now in May than I could in January, but it’s not a lot of difference and I may just be imagining it. I may just be being more of a pain to the drivers following me because I have figured out the best way to use the regenerative braking now.
What is not clear from any of the marketing materials is that when the ICE runs - whether it be to provide heat or when one is pottering along on the motorway and it switches to parallel mode - is that it is not wasting that ICE operation, but using it to charge the battery. So if you have cruise control on you can watch the display change from parallel mode to pure electric mode and when you are in parallel mode it is also charging the battery. If I didn’t have the display showing me the change I would never know that it is was switching back and forth. In The Netherlands the maximum permitted speed on the motorway is 130kph so at 70mph ( 113kph) you will definitely not notice it.
If you think about it, when the PHEV is in parallel mode the ICE has to turn at whatever speed is governed by the forward motion of the car, so clearly Mitsubishi has decided that whenever the ICE is running it had better earn its keep and so it also charges the battery at the same time. It makes sense. The same applies when you start up on a cold morning. The ICE is running to provide cabin heat so it may as well generate some electricity at the same time.
BUT there is one clear advantage to the resistive heat and that is when you can leave the car plugged in overnight; I can’t. In the top spec versions you can set the cabin heater to come on some time before you set off for work. This heating is coming from your mains, so it is not running down the available charge in the batteries, and so you don’t have to use the ICE to provide that initial heating. Unlike the internal combustion engine, electric motors don’t have to warm up to work at their optimum efficiency so you can set off the instant you get into the car.
If you are like me when you are at the decision making point you try and weigh each detail to maximize the benefit. But once you start driving the PHEV and the novelty has worn off you’ll realise that this is a vehicle designed by engineers – ie not accountants or marketing bods - who wanted to maximize the benefit no matter what the options you have chosen. ( There isn’t an accountant on this planet who would have dared take the risk necessary to introduce such a radical concept as this Outlander PHEV.)
Using electricity to heat the passenger compartment while on the move is always going to reduce the range, that’s why when electric cars are introduced the manufacturers always choose somewhere like Spain, Portugal or Tunisia for the journalists to make the first test drive, never Glasgow! So it’s really swings and roundabouts as to whether there is any real benefit in having electric heating as well as ICE heating.
In my opinion from my experience in the last four months If you have a 7 mile commute to work then the Outlander PHEV is perfect for you. Yes you’ll use some petrol in the winter for heating, but then Mitsubishi recommends that you should run the ICE from time to time since the fuel can go off sitting in the tank for too long unused.
I have only filled up twice since I got the car in January and the tank is half full at the moment. I charge it when I get home faithfully. I have just installed a regular 16AMP ( for you that would be 13Amp) socket on the outside near the front door and I use the normal charging box that Mitsubishi supply to top the battery up every time I come home. Nothing fancy. The only time the ICE runs now, in May, is if I floor the pedal for some reason. Otherwise it is 100% electric.
Petrol. I don’t know what the Mitsubishi dealer filled the car with for delivery but when I filled up with Shell V Power at the first fill up the car was a totally different car. I’m a great believer in using quality fuel.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I doubt if anybody could answer your question since it would require two people to drive the exact same route together, one in a PHEV with resistive heating and one without resistive heating, and through 12 months of the year. It’s unlikely that anybody’s going to do that.
If you can leave the car plugged in overnight AND you are disciplined enough to set the heating to come on half an hour before you set off in the morning, then you might want to reconsider the decision to choose the version without resistive heating. But if like me you can’t leave it plugged in overnight or you simple would find it impossible to set the heating to come on half an hour before you set off then just enjoy the comfort of having a real heater in the car, even though it is electric, and think of the money you have saved by not going for the higher spec version.
There are many great things about the car…. Here’s a couple that I haven’t seen any journalist mention 1) passengers love it because there is absolutely no jerkiness ( there isn’t a gearbox, robotic or automatic) 2) it’s great at climbing curbs!
PS. Here’s what a friend of mine emailed to me on Sunday 25th of May, a few days after taking delivery of his PHEV. “What a GREAT car!
During our first long drive (beyond the electric capacity) I switched to the display that tells what is driving the car, expecting to see the petrol engine kick in, in case I would have doubts about whether I heard it starting or some other noise, only to find it was already running and driving the car! On the motorway we simply don’t hear the engine. Do you know how it starts? I’ve not heard a regular starter motor once.”
As you can see the operation of the heating system isn’t the only mystery.
I took delivery of my PHEV, with resistive heat option, in January. I live near Amsterdam. I don’t imagine that the weather here is so different to Glasgow.
It’s not easy to figure out what is working when. Mitsubishi have done an excellent job in making the change between the different modes as undetectable as could be possible. If it wasn’t for the dashboard display you wouldn’t know if the PHEV was in Electric, Serial or Parallel mode; and as for when it is in resistive heat or ICE heat modes? Well there isn’t a display to tell me so anything I say has to be a complete guess.
In January I notice that the instant I started the car the ICE would start up. This was clearly to provide heating since the battery was fully charged. I have to guess that in January the temperature was too low for resistive heat to be enough. At the moment – May – it doesn’t do that although the temperature has been 10 degrees C in the mornings. Do I notice difference in range between the winter and now? Maybe. I have the feeling that I can go further on the batteries now in May than I could in January, but it’s not a lot of difference and I may just be imagining it. I may just be being more of a pain to the drivers following me because I have figured out the best way to use the regenerative braking now.
What is not clear from any of the marketing materials is that when the ICE runs - whether it be to provide heat or when one is pottering along on the motorway and it switches to parallel mode - is that it is not wasting that ICE operation, but using it to charge the battery. So if you have cruise control on you can watch the display change from parallel mode to pure electric mode and when you are in parallel mode it is also charging the battery. If I didn’t have the display showing me the change I would never know that it is was switching back and forth. In The Netherlands the maximum permitted speed on the motorway is 130kph so at 70mph ( 113kph) you will definitely not notice it.
If you think about it, when the PHEV is in parallel mode the ICE has to turn at whatever speed is governed by the forward motion of the car, so clearly Mitsubishi has decided that whenever the ICE is running it had better earn its keep and so it also charges the battery at the same time. It makes sense. The same applies when you start up on a cold morning. The ICE is running to provide cabin heat so it may as well generate some electricity at the same time.
BUT there is one clear advantage to the resistive heat and that is when you can leave the car plugged in overnight; I can’t. In the top spec versions you can set the cabin heater to come on some time before you set off for work. This heating is coming from your mains, so it is not running down the available charge in the batteries, and so you don’t have to use the ICE to provide that initial heating. Unlike the internal combustion engine, electric motors don’t have to warm up to work at their optimum efficiency so you can set off the instant you get into the car.
If you are like me when you are at the decision making point you try and weigh each detail to maximize the benefit. But once you start driving the PHEV and the novelty has worn off you’ll realise that this is a vehicle designed by engineers – ie not accountants or marketing bods - who wanted to maximize the benefit no matter what the options you have chosen. ( There isn’t an accountant on this planet who would have dared take the risk necessary to introduce such a radical concept as this Outlander PHEV.)
Using electricity to heat the passenger compartment while on the move is always going to reduce the range, that’s why when electric cars are introduced the manufacturers always choose somewhere like Spain, Portugal or Tunisia for the journalists to make the first test drive, never Glasgow! So it’s really swings and roundabouts as to whether there is any real benefit in having electric heating as well as ICE heating.
In my opinion from my experience in the last four months If you have a 7 mile commute to work then the Outlander PHEV is perfect for you. Yes you’ll use some petrol in the winter for heating, but then Mitsubishi recommends that you should run the ICE from time to time since the fuel can go off sitting in the tank for too long unused.
I have only filled up twice since I got the car in January and the tank is half full at the moment. I charge it when I get home faithfully. I have just installed a regular 16AMP ( for you that would be 13Amp) socket on the outside near the front door and I use the normal charging box that Mitsubishi supply to top the battery up every time I come home. Nothing fancy. The only time the ICE runs now, in May, is if I floor the pedal for some reason. Otherwise it is 100% electric.
Petrol. I don’t know what the Mitsubishi dealer filled the car with for delivery but when I filled up with Shell V Power at the first fill up the car was a totally different car. I’m a great believer in using quality fuel.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I doubt if anybody could answer your question since it would require two people to drive the exact same route together, one in a PHEV with resistive heating and one without resistive heating, and through 12 months of the year. It’s unlikely that anybody’s going to do that.
If you can leave the car plugged in overnight AND you are disciplined enough to set the heating to come on half an hour before you set off in the morning, then you might want to reconsider the decision to choose the version without resistive heating. But if like me you can’t leave it plugged in overnight or you simple would find it impossible to set the heating to come on half an hour before you set off then just enjoy the comfort of having a real heater in the car, even though it is electric, and think of the money you have saved by not going for the higher spec version.
There are many great things about the car…. Here’s a couple that I haven’t seen any journalist mention 1) passengers love it because there is absolutely no jerkiness ( there isn’t a gearbox, robotic or automatic) 2) it’s great at climbing curbs!
PS. Here’s what a friend of mine emailed to me on Sunday 25th of May, a few days after taking delivery of his PHEV. “What a GREAT car!
During our first long drive (beyond the electric capacity) I switched to the display that tells what is driving the car, expecting to see the petrol engine kick in, in case I would have doubts about whether I heard it starting or some other noise, only to find it was already running and driving the car! On the motorway we simply don’t hear the engine. Do you know how it starts? I’ve not heard a regular starter motor once.”
As you can see the operation of the heating system isn’t the only mystery.
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