Outlander PHEV's 1500W Inverter: Pure Sine Wave!

[STS134]

Well I'm actually quite impressed. Looks like Mitsubishi put a very good inverter for the 1500W AC power in the PHEV. I put a scope on it today to find out what waveform the thing was putting out and it appears to be a pure sine wave! I was honestly expecting a stepped sine but sometimes I get pleasantly surprised by the engineers.

You may notice that this isn't a 120V waveform, but that's because it was run through a transformer before going into the scope. The transformer steps down the voltage, but does not change the shape of the wave.

That said, I still don't think it's a good idea to power motors with this inverter. As in, if the power goes out at your house, I wouldn't try to power the refrigerator with this car, due to surge current required. I highly doubt this inverter was designed for inductive loads. But any resistive load or power brick (which is probably what this thing was designed for) should not be able to tell the difference between this power and what's coming out of the local utility.

View attachment Outlander Inverter Scope Trace.jpg

 

[KWh]

Good to read STS!

Not being an expert on this, I'm wondering what will happen if you do decide to put a fridge on it?
Just asking, as I would like to run a small coffeemachine on it when camping. Also we have a bit of land out of range of a grid (pretty much out of range of anything else as well :mrgreen: ) and I was wondering if I could run electric tools from the car.

To be sure, in Europe it's a 240V 1500W inverter. I don't think it will make much of a difference as all appliances are 240V as well.

 

[jaapv]

European cars have no inverter power outlet. As far as I am aware the Japanese and a few other markets only. Disclaimer -it might have changed for the 2019 model, but I have not seen it mentioned.

 

[twosout]

If there was an inverter, where would you find it?

 

[STS134]

Good to read STS!

Not being an expert on this, I'm wondering what will happen if you do decide to put a fridge on it?
Just asking, as I would like to run a small coffeemachine on it when camping. Also we have a bit of land out of range of a grid (pretty much out of range of anything else as well :mrgreen: ) and I was wondering if I could run electric tools from the car.

To be sure, in Europe it's a 240V 1500W inverter. I don't think it will make much of a difference as all appliances are 240V as well.

I think a mini fridge is fine. I wouldn't try to run a full size fridge on it because surge power (power needed to start the motor) can be up to 3 times the running power, and I doubt this inverter was designed to deal with inrush current. It was probably designed to power electronic devices (i.e. power bricks for laptops and cell phones as well as simple resistive loads like light bulbs). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current#Motors As such, I wouldn't put anything on it that has a motor and exceeds about 500W of running power.

If there was an inverter, where would you find it?

On the North American GT model at least, there are two 1500W outlets. They can output up to 1500W of power (in aggregate, not each). The controls for the inverter are on the bottom of the center console, below the climate controls and to the right of the steering wheel heating power switch. One outlet is inside the vehicle and faces the rear seats, and is located on the back of the console between the front seats. The other is in the cargo hold. You know how there is a cup holder in the cargo hold? (I think this is a holdover from the gas powered Outlander which has seats back there, and the PHEV has no seats because the battery takes up that space). Well, the second outlet is located on the back of this cup holder area:
View attachment Outlander 1500W Outlet.jpg

 

[twosout]

Ah, yes. Mine has a simple cigarette lighter instead of an AC outlet (shame it's not an optional extra).
And, at the front, the switch position is blanked-off. It's about the only non-operational switch there is (on my HS spec).

 

[KWh]

European cars have no inverter power outlet. As far as I am aware the Japanese and a few other markets only. Disclaimer -it might have changed for the 2019 model, but I have not seen it mentioned.

In Europe this changed for the 2019 model. In the Netherlands it was provided on the top spec (S-Edition) only on the 2019 model. I got it as a surprise on my Instyle MY2020. Nice surprise as this was the only option I would have really liked on top of the Instyle when I ordered the car

 

[KWh]

I think a mini fridge is fine. I wouldn't try to run a full size fridge on it because surge power (power needed to start the motor) can be up to 3 times the running power, and I doubt this inverter was designed to deal with inrush current. It was probably designed to power electronic devices (i.e. power bricks for laptops and cell phones as well as simple resistive loads like light bulbs). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current#Motors As such, I wouldn't put anything on it that has a motor and exceeds about 500W of running power

Thanks for the info!

If there was an inverter, where would you find it?

On the North American GT model at least, there are two 1500W outlets. They can output up to 1500W of power (in aggregate, not each). The controls for the inverter are on the bottom of the center console, below the climate controls and to the right of the steering wheel heating power switch. One outlet is inside the vehicle and faces the rear seats, and is located on the back of the console between the front seats. The other is in the cargo hold. You know how there is a cup holder in the cargo hold? (I think this is a holdover from the gas powered Outlander which has seats back there, and the PHEV has no seats because the battery takes up that space). Well, the second outlet is located on the back of this cup holder area

Located on the bottom of the center console and in the cargo hold in Europe as well. Flap says 220-240V 1500W

 

[DAR]

Hi, Thank you for nice waveform view. Do you know any technical side of this inverter ,like where does it take power from exactly etc?
Since in Europe older models are not available with this option I m thinking installing one by myself. Couldn't find any wiring diagram of Outlander PHEV, if you have any reference will be appreciated.

 

[STS134]

Hi, Thank you for nice waveform view. Do you know any technical side of this inverter ,like where does it take power from exactly etc?
Since in Europe older models are not available with this option I m thinking installing one by myself. Couldn't find any wiring diagram of Outlander PHEV, if you have any reference will be appreciated.

I would guess it takes power from the main drive battery. It doesn't work in accessory mode, it only works when the vehicle is switched on (i.e. the engine can kick in if the battery charge gets low). And if you go underneath the cargo mat and look at the 12V battery, you'll see why.

 

[twosout]

As I don't have the inverter, sadly, I'm not likely to see why. The little 12V battery would not have enough oomph (power) to drive an inverter, so the source is bound to be the main battery.

 

[Ridfenfun]

[/quote]
I would guess it takes power from the main drive battery. It doesn't work in accessory mode, it only works when the vehicle is switched on (i.e. the engine can kick in if the battery charge gets low). And if you go underneath the cargo mat and look at the 12V battery, you'll see why.[/quote]


Can you save me the trouble of going under the cargo mat; I'm assuming you mean the 12 volt battery is quite small???

 

[aucklander]

I am sorry if this is a really newbie question! I've just bought a japanese import Phev - it's a 2005 model and has a 1500w output that I believe (!) is 100v. I live in New Zealand where power is 240v. Can someone point me to a device that i need to be able to convert this power to run a small fridge (for camping) or should it 'just work'

Thank you so much!

 

[littlescrote]

or should it 'just work'

Depends if your fridge is designed to work on 100V.

Also, what frequency is the Japanese inverter, as half of the country is 50Hz and the other is 60Hz. Your fridge may not care.

 

[Daniel77]

I installed already the inverter, you don’t need diagrams for connecting the inverter, is easy, you need to connect to aux battery and is located in the boot. If you open the first half you can see the negative , 5 screws and you can take the cover and access the aux battery. I recommend one inverter over 2000w continue if you want to use 1500w without to have problems bigger is better but not to big to match the size with the space . My inverter is 2500 continues and 5000w peak and if i use 1500w not even starting the cooler. The car supporting 2200w without problems ( this is the limit) . 2000 is really ok. I used 2500 for short period but I don’t recommend for longer time.

 

[twosout]

I'm sure you could put an inverter across the auxiliary battery and it would "work".
BUT
A 1200W inverter will draw 100A and 2400W one, 200A (keeping the arithmetic simple).
You'd need a similar fuse and some hefty wires, too.
A problem will arise, I fear, if you consume more than half the capacity of the battery (which I'd imagine to be rather modest) because Lead-Acid doesn't tolerate that kind of thing.
I don't know how the aux battery is charged (from the main battery?) or at what rate, but I don't think it will be at the rate required to compensate to support the large inverters suggested. (But Mitsubishi do it, somehow.)

 

[littlescrote]

I'm sure you could put an inverter across the auxiliary battery and it would "work".
BUT
A 1200W inverter will draw 100A and 2400W one, 200A (keeping the arithmetic simple).
You'd need a similar fuse and some hefty wires, too.
A problem will arise, I fear, if you consume more than half the capacity of the battery (which I'd imagine to be rather modest) because Lead-Acid doesn't tolerate that kind of thing.
I don't know how the aux battery is charged (from the main battery?) or at what rate, but I don't think it will be at the rate required to compensate to support the large inverters suggested. (But Mitsubishi do it, somehow.)

All good points. Having a flat Aux battery is a disaster in these. Ideally you'd wire the inverter via a battery guard to prevent current draw at too low voltage, but getting one that would handle that current would not be cheap/easy (you could always do it via a contactor).

Mitsubishi do it on the factory fit one by tapping off the Drive battery, not the Aux battery. Doing that safely is another level as doing it on a 12V system presents no real dangers to the user/installer (despite the high current, that is irrelevant to shock hazard, it's the voltage/potential that drives a deadly current through the resistance of the body, and 12V cannot drive a high enough current to be harmful).

 

[pfffuv]

When I bought my 2019 SEL in the USA, I didn't do my research well enough and believed the Mitsu salesperson who told me it had the 120v inverter that the GT model has. I had visions of grandeur of running my house fridge from the car during a power outage, and was a bit deflated when I found only a cigarette lighter outlet (they didn't even include the heater coil element, would have been appreciated by my kids so they could light up their spliffs on road trips.)

Obviously, I am not too smart... and thus I don't understand all the technicalities of installing an inverter, and you'll have to forgive me for asking the simple question: what is problem with just using one of those common 12v cig lighter plug inverters on the 12 v outlet in the trunk?

I get it that my fridge has too high a surge for the 500W inverters you'd pick up at Costco, but can that little 12v outlet handle a more substantial inverter without resorting to custom wiring? Does that 12v outlet take power from the drive batteries or just from the miniature ICE battery?

Thanks-Sven

 

[twosout]

There are two things to consider:
1. The power of the inverter must be adequate for the item you want to use with it and the wires used must be large (thick) enough to cope with the current. 1200W = 12V x 100A! 100A requires very thick wires from a 12V source to the inverter. The wires will only be rated for 10 or 15A, I would guess.
2. The capacity of the source must be adequate for what you want to do. The tiny 12V battery may only contain 1/2kWh of useable power. Not only that, the battery will not tolerate such abuse. If you could connect to the Lithium battery, it would be entirely different: It has much (,much) more capacity and can tolerate high levels of discharge. Sadly, the 12V sockets draw from the 12V battery.

 

[Woon Chung]

I installed already the inverter, you don’t need diagrams for connecting the inverter, is easy, you need to connect to aux battery and is located in the boot. If you open the first half you can see the negative , 5 screws and you can take the cover and access the aux battery. I recommend one inverter over 2000w continue if you want to use 1500w without to have problems bigger is better but not to big to match the size with the space . My inverter is 2500 continues and 5000w peak and if i use 1500w not even starting the cooler. The car supporting 2200w without problems ( this is the limit) . 2000 is really ok. I used 2500 for short period but I don’t recommend for longer time.

Hi, Daniel77
I found another post under your name describing inverter what you have installed with more details. Too much thanks to you for your information.
But still I have several unanswered questions regarding this inverter installing. One of them is that how you determine maximum supporting wattage of this car. Is it related with the DC-DC converter charging speed to Aux battery? Or, is it related Aux battery discharging speed? Or, DC-DC converter discharging speed to car 12v system? Or, is it depending on your try and error experimental result without any Mitsuibishi Data Sheet? Whatever is the answer, I appreciate your posting regarding inverter issue. My questions are only from my personal desire to the knowledge.

I am new to this kind of posting. Thus, I don't know how to link other post to here but, bkelly1984 did a great job regarding 1500w 120v ac system installing in non GT model by using OEM parts of GT model used. That is definitely a great job but it is far beyond of my ability.

I hope you keep posting if you find any new information