Oil Change Interval

[fmtxphev]

I picked my '18 GT a few weeks ago and wanted to ask what those of you who are still under warranty do for oil change interval.

I looked at the maintenance manual that came with the vehicle and, using the more generous Schedule 2 table, it reads the oil change interval is every 6 months or 7500 miles. That is totally ridiculous for this vehicle. If the usage for this vehicle follows what I've done with my Volt, we will be 90%+ electric, which means at 7500 miles on the odometer, the engine will only have 750 miles or less. It's a waste of time, money, and resources to change the oil that frequently. The problem is, though, if I don't and there is some sort of problem related to lubrication, Mitsubishi could deny warranty coverage because I didn't follow the maintenance schedule.

So, what are those of you still under warranty doing?

 

[Tipper]

UK cars get an oil change every 12500 miles or at the annual service...that's UK miles not US miles! :lol:

 

[SolarBoy]

Mine has done 10k, at most 750 of those miles on petrol over the last 2.5 years.

 

[BCbackroader]

I use mine in my courier business, so I'm treating it to the "severe duty" schedule, service every 8,000km (5,000mi for the non metric). In the 12 weeks that I've owned it, I've done 16,000km, about 50/50 gas/electric. It gets the second service tomorrow.

 

[zzcoopej]

In the 12 weeks that I've owned it, I've done 16,000km, about 50/50 gas/electric

It will be very interesting to hear how your PHEV battery degrades being driven about 70,000km per year, please keep us informed how it is going in a couple of years time if you plan to keep it that long?
I have 1 datapoint from an owner at 140,000km and their battery is still in very good shape (91% SOH/PMC) so I don't expect that you will see any issues. http://evpositive.com/battery-history.html

 

[elm70]

In the 12 weeks that I've owned it, I've done 16,000km, about 50/50 gas/electric

It will be very interesting to hear how your PHEV battery degrades being driven about 70,000km per year, please keep us informed how it is going in a couple of years time if you plan to keep it that long?
I have 1 datapoint from an owner at 140,000km and their battery is still in very good shape (91% SOH/PMC) so I don't expect that you will see any issues. http://evpositive.com/battery-history.html

When I got my PHEV was 94.7% or 36Ah when was with 124k km and 3y old (actually this was few months after, since at first I did not had any working OBD2 tool)
Now with 138k km and getting close to 5y old .. it is down to 34.1Ah and 89.7%

I think people that don't charge the PHEV and just drive without touching the charge/save and B setting .. will keep the battery in better shape .. plus possibly the car has no reference for guess what is the real battery degradation.

My PHEV report 34.1Ah .. but if I fully use the battery from fully charge to 30% or 0k EV left .. after 2h rest .. the battery is reported to have lost further ~0.6Ah (or even more ... never did check in a "scientific: way) .. so the real capacity of my battery is possibly 33.5Ah .. and this is why every month I lose 0.1Ah in capacity

 

[jaapv]

The official schedule over here is once every 20.000 km for a full service.
Take care with DIY maintenance. The car needs scheduled electronic maintenance too. Unless you have a fully equipped modern workshop and factory training, your efforts may not be accepted.
For instance, if you don't upload the logbooks to the factory data center, the service will not be recorded.
For a present-day car, DIY is simply not worth it, if not impossible.

 

[user 2883]

I just had my '18 GT in for the 6-month service and felt stupid letting them dump nearly new full synthetic oil out of the pan. I've only got about 2500 miles on the clock, much of that in EV mode.

This thing is screaming for a Hobbs meter.

 

[STS134]

I just had my '18 GT in for the 6-month service and felt stupid letting them dump nearly new full synthetic oil out of the pan. I've only got about 2500 miles on the clock, much of that in EV mode.

This thing is screaming for a Hobbs meter.

You need to do a used oil analysis https://www.blackstone-labs.com/
There's a LOT of crap that can get in the oil, and some stuff that is made worse by running the ICE only for short intervals (like gasoline going into the oil and not getting burned off because the engine doesn't reach operating temperature). Just because the engine doesn't run as much does NOT mean that the oil doesn't have to be changed.

 

[anko]

I just had my '18 GT in for the 6-month service and felt stupid letting them dump nearly new full synthetic oil out of the pan. I've only got about 2500 miles on the clock, much of that in EV mode.

This thing is screaming for a Hobbs meter.

You need to do a used oil analysis https://www.blackstone-labs.com/
There's a LOT of crap that can get in the oil, and some stuff that is made worse by running the ICE only for short intervals (like gasoline going into the oil and not getting burned off because the engine doesn't reach operating temperature). Just because the engine doesn't run as much does NOT mean that the oil doesn't have to be changed.

Not for you, I guess, as you go to Save mode as soon as you hit 50 MPH and your engine will probably be used on most of your trips. But it might for people that are willing / prepared to use a PHEV as an HEV from time to time. At times, I have seen my engine not running at all for 1000 miles or more.

 

[STS134]

Not for you, I guess, as you go to Save mode as soon as you hit 50 MPH and your engine will probably be used on most of your trips. But it might for people that are willing / prepared to use a PHEV as an HEV from time to time. At times, I have seen my engine not running at all for 1000 miles or more.

Oil degrades over time though, which is why you see both a time based and distance based oil change schedule. Even if you hardly use the ICE at all, you still need to change the oil once a year at least. The oil storage in vehicles is not a sealed system.

 

[AndyH]

I picked my '18 GT a few weeks ago and wanted to ask what those of you who are still under warranty do for oil change interval.

I looked at the maintenance manual that came with the vehicle and, using the more generous Schedule 2 table, it reads the oil change interval is every 6 months or 7500 miles. That is totally ridiculous for this vehicle. If the usage for this vehicle follows what I've done with my Volt, we will be 90%+ electric, which means at 7500 miles on the odometer, the engine will only have 750 miles or less. It's a waste of time, money, and resources to change the oil that frequently. The problem is, though, if I don't and there is some sort of problem related to lubrication, Mitsubishi could deny warranty coverage because I didn't follow the maintenance schedule.

So, what are those of you still under warranty doing?

Welcome aboard!

Those of us driving in hot cities in stop and start conditions (the car or the engine) need to use the severe service interval. To add insult to injury, only a couple of our oil options are capable of being run for 12 months - Europe's got a lot more options for long-drain oil than we have - some up to 24 months.

Mitsubishi doesn't warranty engine oil - the oil manufacturer has that responsibility. In the US, if there is a failure, Mitsubishi is required to perform fluid testing to show that the oil failed or was beyond end of life and that that caused the mechanical problem. Mitsubishi's maintenance schedule is based on using products that meet the specified minimum performance requirements. Commodity oils are made for the specified service intervals. Products made to run longer can be if that's the oil company's recommendation. If you do your own work, keep receipts and log the service. That's all you need. (Magunsen-Moss warranty act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act)

I do my own maintenance. I use the only US oil made for severe service annual drain intervals, and I monitor it with oil analysis. As I don't drive anywhere near the 25,000 to 35,000 miles the oil's capable of , the time-based interval applies for me.

 

[jaapv]

How are you going to press possible electrical/electronics/software guaranty claims if the car is only maintained mechanically?
For instance - to maintain guaranty the logs must be read out and sent to Japan on each service.

 

[greendwarf]

Unless it is a hobby, I can't understand why someone would want to do their own maintenance on a brand new car costing $50k. surely not to save 1% of its price of having it done for them?

When I was younger I did all my own maintenance but on cars costing a few $100s because I couldn't afford better. However, now I have the finances to buy new why would I want or need to continue to penny pinch?

 

[jaapv]

Rather complicated nowadays too, with regulations for the disposal of oil, mandatory emission testing, etc.

 

[AndyH]

How are you going to press possible electrical/electronics/software guaranty claims if the car is only maintained mechanically?
For instance - to maintain guaranty the logs must be read out and sent to Japan on each service.

No, to maintain the warranty the logs don't need to be sent anywhere. I'm in the US - different countries have different laws. In Europe and Japan, manufacturers can mandate specific things be performed with specific fluids, for example, and the owner must do those things with those products. In the US, if the manufacturer requires a specific product, they must provide it free of charge. One on-topic example is engine oil. They can 'recommend' (as a number of manufacturers do because of financial deals with the company) using Mobil 1, but they cannot mandate it, and they cannot make it a warranty requirement. Different countries, different laws, different requirements.

If a computer or a wire or a sensor breaks, then Mitsubishi fixes it. (Actually, Mitsubishi only acts as an agent because the ultimate warranty for any specific device falls back to the manufacturer of that device. A warranty is an insurance policy purchased by the manufacturer of a product, device, or fluid. If the oil fails in recommended service, Mobil's (or Total's or Idemitsu's) insurance policy fixes it.

Therefore, there is no warranty requirement for logs to be sent back to Japan for any warranty to remain in force.

Greendwarf - I maintain my equipment to a much higher standard than any dealer will. I use superior fluids, fluid analysis, and monitor the equipment. I do that because I intend to be driving this car for at least 10 and hopefully 15 years. (My last VW Passat was retired after 15 years and 430,000 miles/692.000 km.) In the US, a service call is a marketing opportunity for an 18 year old tech to try to tell me I need a new air filter and wiper blades every 3000 miles. What they won't tell us is that the rubber used on air filters will seal only the first time it's installed, and that the initial dust layer that forms makes the filter many times more effective.** The air filter box shouldn't be opened until the filter's going to be replaced. So...What most shops do is actually abuse and leads to a faster rate of wear. That's good for them but not good for me. It's also not my definition of professional maintenance.

jaapv - in the US, anyone that sells fluids is required to take them back for recycling or disposal. Oil, filters, coolant, brake fluid, etc. Emissions testing here is a function of the city or state and is performed when required separately from any required service (and sadly, very few cities require emissions testing). I use products designed for long service intervals and thus produce much less waste.

edit...
**That's the difference between science and marketing. They tell us that the dust layer means the filter's dirty and must be changed. If we opt to keep the filter in place for the full service interval, they put the filter back into the box...and it won't seal correctly...and most of the particulates that damage engine internals come from the air. One reference: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212017316001201

Two more pieces. First, the warranty insurance policies. Warranty intervals are the shortest period of time manufacturers can get away with within the law. They're designed to maximize profit for the insurance companies that provide the insurance, and to maximize profit for the manufacturer. They're playing a numbers game where there are acceptable rates of loss. That is fine for people that swap vehicles on a schedule like cell phones. That's a problem for people that plan to keep the car well past the end of the warranty interval. Second - engine oil. Most engine oil outside the US is synthetic - and by that I mean PAO and/or ester based - real man-made lubricants, not something derived from crude oil. In the US, most products are petroleum based. Most products labeled 'synthetic' are highly-processed petroleum and not man-made synthetic. The auto market in the US is still conditioned to use inexpensive petroleum based oils for 3000 mile intervals, even as auto makers take advantage of products that can run longer. We had a couple of infamous class-action suits in North America a number of years ago as a result of a rash of engine failures after Mercedes and BMW started importing cars with oil life monitors. Not surprisingly, monitors calibrated for long-life PAO/ester-based synthetic lubes don't give good info when the owner takes the car to the quickie lube and has the engine filled with petroleum oil made for 3000 mile severe service intervals. http://www.autonews.com/article/200...le:-m-b-customers-settle-replacement-oil-suit This sort of thing, even without an oil life monitor, affects most Euro automakers. It's less of a problem for Japanese automakers as there's been more work to harmonize oil performance between the API (US) and JASO (Japan) via ILSAC. https://www.oilspecifications.org/ilsac.php
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2016-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf

 

[RoyM]

20.000km service interval here in Norway or 1 year, whatever hits first. (~12.000miles)
We also get 7 years factory warranty/140.000km (~86.000miles)
Warranty that we still have atleast 70% battery after 8 years/160.000km (~99.000miles)

 

[jaapv]

How are you going to press possible electrical/electronics/software guaranty claims if the car is only maintained mechanically?
For instance - to maintain guaranty the logs must be read out and sent to Japan on each service.

No, to maintain the warranty the logs don't need to be sent anywhere. I'm in the US - different countries have different laws. In Europe and Japan, manufacturers can mandate specific things be performed with specific fluids, for example, and the owner must do those things with those products. In the US, if the manufacturer requires a specific product, they must provide it free of charge. One on-topic example is engine oil. They can 'recommend' (as a number of manufacturers do because of financial deals with the company) using Mobil 1, but they cannot mandate it, and they cannot make it a warranty requirement. Different countries, different laws, different requirements.

If a computer or a wire or a sensor breaks, then Mitsubishi fixes it. (Actually, Mitsubishi only acts as an agent because the ultimate warranty for any specific device falls back to the manufacturer of that device. A warranty is an insurance policy purchased by the manufacturer of a product, device, or fluid. If the oil fails in recommended service, Mobil's (or Total's or Idemitsu's) insurance policy fixes it.

Therefore, there is no warranty requirement for logs to be sent back to Japan for any warranty to remain in force.

Greendwarf - I maintain my equipment to a much higher standard than any dealer will. I use superior fluids, fluid analysis, and monitor the equipment. I do that because I intend to be driving this car for at least 10 and hopefully 15 years. (My last VW Passat was retired after 15 years and 430,000 miles/692.000 km.) In the US, a service call is a marketing opportunity for an 18 year old tech to try to tell me I need a new air filter and wiper blades every 3000 miles. What they won't tell us is that the rubber used on air filters will seal only the first time it's installed, and that the initial dust layer that forms makes the filter many times more effective.** The air filter box shouldn't be opened until the filter's going to be replaced. So...What most shops do is actually abuse and leads to a faster rate of wear. That's good for them but not good for me. It's also not my definition of professional maintenance.

jaapv - in the US, anyone that sells fluids is required to take them back for recycling or disposal. Oil, filters, coolant, brake fluid, etc. Emissions testing here is a function of the city or state and is performed when required separately from any required service (and sadly, very few cities require emissions testing). I use products designed for long service intervals and thus produce much less waste.

edit...
**That's the difference between science and marketing. They tell us that the dust layer means the filter's dirty and must be changed. If we opt to keep the filter in place for the full service interval, they put the filter back into the box...and it won't seal correctly...and most of the particulates that damage engine internals come from the air. One reference: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212017316001201

Two more pieces. First, the warranty insurance policies. Warranty intervals are the shortest period of time manufacturers can get away with within the law. They're designed to maximize profit for the insurance companies that provide the insurance, and to maximize profit for the manufacturer. They're playing a numbers game where there are acceptable rates of loss. That is fine for people that swap vehicles on a schedule like cell phones. That's a problem for people that plan to keep the car well past the end of the warranty interval. Second - engine oil. Most engine oil outside the US is synthetic - and by that I mean PAO and/or ester based - real man-made lubricants, not something derived from crude oil. In the US, most products are petroleum based. Most products labeled 'synthetic' are highly-processed petroleum and not man-made synthetic. The auto market in the US is still conditioned to use inexpensive petroleum based oils for 3000 mile intervals, even as auto makers take advantage of products that can run longer. We had a couple of infamous class-action suits in North America a number of years ago as a result of a rash of engine failures after Mercedes and BMW started importing cars with oil life monitors. Not surprisingly, monitors calibrated for long-life PAO/ester-based synthetic lubes don't give good info when the owner takes the car to the quickie lube and has the engine filled with petroleum oil made for 3000 mile severe service intervals. http://www.autonews.com/article/200...le:-m-b-customers-settle-replacement-oil-suit This sort of thing, even without an oil life monitor, affects most Euro automakers. It's less of a problem for Japanese automakers as there's been more work to harmonize oil performance between the API (US) and JASO (Japan) via ILSAC. https://www.oilspecifications.org/ilsac.php
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2016-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf

It still doesn't address firmware updates and failures. On my car that was the only thing that failed in over four years and 100.000 km. It spontaneaously slammed on the brakes in the middle of the motorway @ 130 kph . The fault couldn't be found locally, they had to hook the car up to the central service centre in Tokyo to find and repair it - corrupted software in the FCM system. They deleted and uploaded new software, which fixed it. Not quite the stuff for backyard DIY, I should think.
Different times - the black-fingered mechanic is being replaced by the computer whizz-kid more and more.
These aren't cars, but computers on four wheels. Oil changes, filters and wiper blades are the least of my worries - with 300 Euro each 20.000 km I don't see the point of doing half the job myself and neglecting the rest.

However, I'll happily work on my TR4. nice - all-mechanical, simple electrics (except for Lucas, King of darkness :lol: )

My Volvo 745Turbo-R taught me differently for present-day tech, years ago. It kept on blowing up a series of black boxes. Fault - bad mass contact. The owner of the Bosch service which handled the case told me: When I break down on the road, I call my workshop. No way could I do a running repair without my computers.

 

[AndyH]

It still doesn't address firmware updates and failures. On my car that was the only thing that failed in over four years and 100.000 km. It spontaneaously slammed on the brakes in the middle of the motorway @ 130 kph . The fault couldn't be found locally, they had to hook the car up to the central service centre in Tokyo to find and repair it - corrupted software in the FCM system. They deleted and uploaded new software, which fixed it. Not quite the stuff for backyard DIY, I should think.
Different times - the black-fingered mechanic is being replaced by the computer whizz-kid more and more.
These aren't cars, but computers on four wheels. Oil changes, filters and wiper blades are the least of my worries - with 300 Euro each 20.000 km I don't see the point of doing half the job myself and neglecting the rest.

However, I'll happily work on my TR4. nice - all-mechanical, simple electrics (except for Lucas, King of darkness :lol: )

My Volvo 745Turbo-R taught me differently for present-day tech, years ago. It kept on blowing up a series of black boxes. Fault - bad mass contact. The owner of the Bosch service which handled the case told me: When I break down on the road, I call my workshop. No way could I do a running repair without my computers.

I didn't say that one didn't need a computer. In VW-land we have VagCom. I had 2 Passat TDIs and didn't have to take either car into a dealer. I did injector swaps, replaced a fuel pump, adjusted fuel injection tuning... So far with the Outlander, I'm finding my ScanGauge is doing all I need, though so far It hasn't needed much.

Also, though - I didn't say that I stay away from the dealer when something 'stupid' happens. Your story isn't very ordinary, and apparently in spite of dealer service, it wasn't caught until you got stuck in the road, right? That's different than performing one's own routine or intermediate maintenance.

 

[jaapv]

If we could predict every breakdown this would be a better world...
As it was, my regular dealer had me on the road again within three hours.