MPG/ l/100km on long journey using charge button

[timtenchanter]

HI all,

I'm a new Outlander PHEV owner and I'm in the honeymoon period finding out what it can do.

I can't seem to find anywhere the listed average MPG for running it in 'Charge' mode, for instance when doing a long motorway journey. All I want to know is the fuel consumption difference between running the petrol engine cruising at 70 mph and running the vehicle from the battery whilst charging it in charge mode.

I'm amazed these kinds of figures aren't more widely available. I thought it'd be a common question.

Thanks

 

[Kesto]

My experience it will drop by 4 mpg. Remember it can only charge 80% ie upto 18miles of EV. Only useful if you are going to enter city and want to use EV only.

 

[user 3575]

HI all,

I'm a new Outlander PHEV owner and I'm in the honeymoon period finding out what it can do.

I can't seem to find anywhere the listed average MPG for running it in 'Charge' mode, for instance when doing a long motorway journey. All I want to know is the fuel consumption difference between running the petrol engine cruising at 70 mph and running the vehicle from the battery whilst charging it in charge mode.

I'm amazed these kinds of figures aren't more widely available. I thought it'd be a common question.

Thanks

Like you I am very new to all this technology and we have only had our PHEV for just over a month. I was under the impression the Charge Mode use any excess energy to feed the batteries.

We have just come back from holiday we have been towing a caravan 1500 kg 180 miles each way a total of 360 in the UK, overall towing using the Charge Mode we achieved UK 27 mpg mainly motorway/dual carriageways setting the speed limiter to 55 mph, so I would expect you to achieve far better fuel consumption running solo.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I'm afraid you're missing the point of Charge and Save. When the battery is empty (or when you press Save), the car will use the ICE to charge the battery, running in what is in effect Charge mode. Once the range has increased by a mile or so, it will drop back to EV till the range drops to the previous level. So the car will use Charge mode intermittently whatever you do once it stops using pure EV. Pressing CHRG will make the ICE run in Charge mode continuously, so increasing your range until you turn it off or it reaches its limit. In fact, it is ever so slightly more economical to run it in Charge for longer periods and use EV for longer, but that is in tests in Australia where they can maintain a steady load for long periods.

So using Charge mode strategically is little different to leaving it to its own devices on a long journey, as long as you arrive at you destination with an empty battery. When running in Parallel mode above 40mph, the ICE is powering the wheels directly, and is more efficient than in Series mode where the ICE powers the generator to power the electric motors, which has more losses. So using CHRG on faster roads (where the car runs in Parallel mode) to charge the battery so that you can use EV around town (where the car would run in Series mode) makes sense for MPG, as long as you arrive at your next charge point with an empty battery.

 

[greendwarf]

However, in my experience as the speed increases in Parallel mode over 40mph it take longer for the battery to top up using Charge and at 80+mph (in France) there seemed to be too little capacity in the ICE to apply any charge increase. BTW in these circumstances consumption was around 27 mpg.

 

[jaapv]

My experience it will drop by 4 mpg. Remember it can only charge 80% ie upto 18miles of EV. Only useful if you are going to enter city and want to use EV only.

Better to say when you are going to need extra electrical capacity in general. In the ountains, for instance, best to keep charge engaged all the time.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

However, in my experience as the speed increases in Parallel mode over 40mph it take longer for the battery to top up using Charge and at 80+mph (in France) there seemed to be too little capacity in the ICE to apply any charge increase. BTW in these circumstances consumption was around 27 mpg.

With the ICE connected directly to the front wheels, the 'spare' power available should (in theory) increase initially as the speed increases, as the ICE will enter a more efficient rpm range. But as the power required to overcome wind resistance varies as the cube of the speed, the extra efficiency will be overcome by the extra power demands as the speed increases further. So there should be an optimal speed for diverting power in Parallel mode. I would guess it is between 55-65mph, but that has no basis in anything but experience of regular ICE cars and training in mechanical engineering. Once the power meter has gone past vertical, I guess the ICE is being used purely for driving the car.

 

[Fjpod]

I'm afraid you're missing the point of Charge and Save. When the battery is empty (or when you press Save), the car will use the ICE to charge the battery, running in what is in effect Charge mode. Once the range has increased by a mile or so, it will drop back to EV till the range drops to the previous level. So the car will use Charge mode intermittently whatever you do once it stops using pure EV. Pressing CHRG will make the ICE run in Charge mode continuously, so increasing your range until you turn it off or it reaches its limit. In fact, it is ever so slightly more economical to run it in Charge for longer periods and use EV for longer, but that is in tests in Australia where they can maintain a steady load for long periods.

So using Charge mode strategically is little different to leaving it to its own devices on a long journey, as long as you arrive at you destination with an empty battery. When running in Parallel mode above 40mph, the ICE is powering the wheels directly, and is more efficient than in Series mode where the ICE powers the generator to power the electric motors, which has more losses. So using CHRG on faster roads (where the car runs in Parallel mode) to charge the battery so that you can use EV around town (where the car would run in Series mode) makes sense for MPG, as long as you arrive at your next charge point with an empty battery.

I'm a new Outlander owner as well. I am wondering the same thing about how to use the Charge button, and if it is worth it at all. You seem to have given the most succinct answer that I have read so far.

Tell me if I am interpreting it right.... Let's say you are going on a 40 mile trip each way. You start out with a full wall charge. At the beginning and end of this mostlyhighway journey, you will be doing some local stop-and-go driving (4-5 miles on either side). Highway speed will be between 50 and 65 MPH. You will not be able to charge at your destination, but you will when you get home. If I understand you correctly, it is best to press the charge button for the time you are traveling 50 mph or better on the first leg of the trip to keep/restore the battery to maximum charge (80%), then on the way home use the Charge button until you are within 20 miles of home, then try to run the battery down to near zero by the time you get home?

Would this be a proper use for best mpge?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

That's the way I do it. I have a similar journey that I do every week, and press CHRG on the faster roads and use EV around town. As long as you arrive at your next charge with an 'empty' battery and don't try to Charge when the battery shows above 80%. You get used to what range will get you home from various points on the journey, so you can get cleverer as time goes by.

Mind you, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I've not seen any proof that this is actually improving my MPG significantly. Just driving in 'D' is pretty efficient and whole lot less hassle...

 

[Fjpod]

That's the way I do it. I have a similar journey that I do every week, and press CHRG on the faster roads and use EV around town. As long as you arrive at your next charge with an 'empty' battery and don't try to Charge when the battery shows above 80%. You get used to what range will get you home from various points on the journey, so you can get cleverer as time goes by.

Mind you, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I've not seen any proof that this is actually improving my MPG significantly. Just driving in 'D' is pretty efficient and whole lot less hassle...

Hmmmm. Now I'm thinking just let the car do it's thing and run the battery down at the end by using ev. But i think both can work.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

The other way to do it is to use Save on faster roads and use EV round town. It's a halfway house, if you like. But whatever you decide, ending up with an empty battery when you get to your next charge is the best way to get the best economy.

 

[Fjpod]

The other way to do it is to use Save on faster roads and use EV round town. It's a halfway house, if you like. But whatever you decide, ending up with an empty battery when you get to your next charge is the best way to get the best economy.

This seems like the way to go. Will try a few methods. Thanks for the input.

 

[greendwarf]

Just to emphasise the point - you can't cheat the laws of physics. So the amount of energy used (petrol & electricity) for a particular journey will be the same which ever strategy you use. What changes, is whether you want to use electricity or petrol for part of the journey - e.g. low pollution zone in town. If so, you need to keep some in reserve by either using SAVE or generating it using CHARGE during other parts of the trip.

Although, as mentioned, arriving at you destination with no remaining battery is ideal - this only applies if you can then recharge at cheap domestic rates. If not, then there is no real advantage, cost wise.

 

[user 3575]

I'm afraid you're missing the point of Charge and Save. When the battery is empty (or when you press Save), the car will use the ICE to charge the battery, running in what is in effect Charge mode. Once the range has increased by a mile or so, it will drop back to EV till the range drops to the previous level. So the car will use Charge mode intermittently whatever you do once it stops using pure EV. Pressing CHRG will make the ICE run in Charge mode continuously, so increasing your range until you turn it off or it reaches its limit. In fact, it is ever so slightly more economical to run it in Charge for longer periods and use EV for longer, but that is in tests in Australia where they can maintain a steady load for long periods.

So using Charge mode strategically is little different to leaving it to its own devices on a long journey, as long as you arrive at you destination with an empty battery. When running in Parallel mode above 40mph, the ICE is powering the wheels directly, and is more efficient than in Series mode where the ICE powers the generator to power the electric motors, which has more losses. So using CHRG on faster roads (where the car runs in Parallel mode) to charge the battery so that you can use EV around town (where the car would run in Series mode) makes sense for MPG, as long as you arrive at your next charge point with an empty battery.

I have found this method has been working for me over the last few weeks I have covered 809 miles used £9.82 in electric plus 11.08 litres @ £12.07 = £21.89

 

[JohanvdH]

Using the charge mode to charge the battery with the ICE is transferring energy from petrol to movement and then from movement to battery charge (and when you drive from battery to movement again).
Every transfer you lose energy so you can better use transfer petrol directly into car movement because then you only have on transfer point to lose energy on.

Recovery from excess movement energy (braking) to battery charge is good for your MPG as this is free energy that would be waisted if you only use it to heat the disc brakes.

 

[michael8554]

I'm surprised that use of the B0 to B5 paddles hasn't been mentioned.
The most efficient way to save charge is to not use it.
I run in B0 most of the time.
The car is heavy and you'd be surprised how many "flat" roads turn out to be sloping, giving many hundreds of metres of coasting.
More charge saved than would be obtained by Regen.
On steep hills use the paddles to reduce speed and Regen of course.

Also ICE engines are particularly thirsty when "cold", so any CHRG or SAVE strategy that entails cycles of 5 minutes of ICE and 15 minutes of EV will drink fuel.
On long journeys I run the battery down, then CHRG to 80% or so, repeating that cycle and attempting to have a high charge percentage for the end of the journey for town use or if there's no convenient charging available.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Coasting uses power to energise the motors, so you're not getting something for nothing. And you can coast in any 'B' setting, so there's no need to swap between modes if you have a reasonably sensitive right foot. I have never found any road round here where I can coast for more than a few seconds. That's why I run in B5 all the time when I'm not using ACC - I can coast whenever I want and immediately have full regen if I need it.

 

[user 3575]

I'm surprised that use of the B0 to B5 paddles hasn't been mentioned.
The most efficient way to save charge is to not use it.
I run in B0 most of the time.
The car is heavy and you'd be surprised how many "flat" roads turn out to be sloping, giving many hundreds of metres of coasting.
More charge saved than would be obtained by Regen.
On steep hills use the paddles to reduce speed and Regen of course.

Also ICE engines are particularly thirsty when "cold", so any CHRG or SAVE strategy that entails cycles of 5 minutes of ICE and 15 minutes of EV will drink fuel.
On long journeys I run the battery down, then CHRG to 80% or so, repeating that cycle and attempting to have a high charge percentage for the end of the journey for town use or if there's no convenient charging available.

Now I am the opposite I use B5 all the time, at this time of the year I am achieving 34-36 measured miles on local journeys, I am finding using B mode just changes the throttle positions and makes no difference to my fuel consumption.

 

[Fjpod]

Using various Bs with the paddle is no different than using your foot lightly on the brake. It produces the same regen. When you want to coast, it is important to keep the needle indicator right at zero... no charging, no accelerating.

 

[greendwarf]

Being equally careful not to rear-end someone because you are watching the dial too much! :lol: :lol: