Is a PHEV the "right" choice to tow a caravan ?

[Titan]

Yep, had a removable towbar with 13 point electrics for use with my caravan fitted from new by dealer.

 

[Tracy]

Hi Anko. We have a Swift Charisma 550 and are about up to the 1500 kg max once loaded and ready to go. Without charge the battery drains even if in save mode so using charge is the best way we have found. Mpg is anywhere from 22 - 25 all depending on which way the wind is blowing! We had a witter detachable tow bar fitted at the dealers before we picked the car up, but will say it is a good idea to hitch caravan up to check the electrics the day before you are towing rather than the same day to avoid finding a wiring anomaly at the eleventh hour!

 

[anko]

My caravan is also 1500 kg and I have not / hardly been able to maintain SOC for ver very long time, not even in Charge mode on a flat road.

 

[Tracy]

You are right Anko, it still reduces, just not as fast as if you didn't have it in charge mode. It is definitely one of the trade offs in having a PHEV to tow with rather than the diesel outlander, but we only tow about 8 or 10 times a year with the caravan so are happy with it for those trips. I do get concerned that the high revving periods are doing damage, but have been assured it is all perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. :?:

 

[user 991]

Thanks for your thoughts and calculations!

I am in the process of maybe going for a Phev. But I do tow a 1500kg Caravan maybe 20 days per year (top).

My understanding is Turtle mode is when you reach a low enough SOC where the PHEV wont use more battery and you are left with "only" the petrol engine (that will directly drive the front wheels), is that correct?
I assume that would put me in "problem" if I were to be out for a few days and not have the possibility to recharge the Phev during those days?

 

[Driver5]

Thanks for your thoughts and calculations!

I am in the process of maybe going for a Phev. But I do tow a 1500kg Caravan maybe 20 days per year (top).

My understanding is Turtle mode is when you reach a low enough SOC where the PHEV wont use more battery and you are left with "only" the petrol engine (that will directly drive the front wheels), is that correct?
I assume that would put me in "problem" if I were to be out for a few days and not have the possibility to recharge the Phev during those days?

Good question - so what would happen then if the battery has not been charged for a few days and drained on a campsite, setting off with a caravan ? would/could the petrol engine pull it ??

Thanks

 

[greendwarf]

Thanks for your thoughts and calculations!

I am in the process of maybe going for a Phev. But I do tow a 1500kg Caravan maybe 20 days per year (top).

My understanding is Turtle mode is when you reach a low enough SOC where the PHEV wont use more battery and you are left with "only" the petrol engine (that will directly drive the front wheels), is that correct?
I assume that would put me in "problem" if I were to be out for a few days and not have the possibility to recharge the Phev during those days?

Good question - so what would happen then if the battery has not been charged for a few days and drained on a campsite, setting off with a caravan ? would/could the petrol engine pull it ??

Thanks

Yes but you could charge up the battery using the ICE - either by driving around in Charge mode whilst "parked up" or, if desperate, running in Charge Mode whilst stationary. Not cheap but worthwhile if you need the extra "grunt".

 

[anko]

My caravan is stored in a location 11 km from where I live. Half way there is a bridge with decently steep on and off ramps. I managed to bring my caravan home on battery power alone (pure EV). If that works, you will be able to do the same on generated power only, as well.

As I don't max out the battery power, you will even have some generated power left to recharge the battery on the first part of your trip. For as long as you stay below approx 80 km/h.

 

[Driver5]

I need to order one on demo for a full weekend i think, that the only way im going to be sure if i like it.

 

[jaapv]

Thanks for your thoughts and calculations!

I am in the process of maybe going for a Phev. But I do tow a 1500kg Caravan maybe 20 days per year (top).

My understanding is Turtle mode is when you reach a low enough SOC where the PHEV wont use more battery and you are left with "only" the petrol engine (that will directly drive the front wheels), is that correct?
I assume that would put me in "problem" if I were to be out for a few days and not have the possibility to recharge the Phev during those days?

Good question - so what would happen then if the battery has not been charged for a few days and drained on a campsite, setting off with a caravan ? would/could the petrol engine pull it ??

Thanks

Nothing would happen except just driving off. Even when "empty" the car maintains a solid electricity reserve.

 

[user 991]

Yes but you could charge up the battery using the ICE - either by driving around in Charge mode whilst "parked up" or, if desperate, running in Charge Mode whilst stationary. Not cheap but worthwhile if you need the extra "grunt".

That "workaround" I have thought of. Not cheap, but I guess not really much more expensive than to use the petrol engine "directly" anyway.

My caravan is stored in a location 11 km from where I live. Half way there is a bridge with decently steep on and off ramps. I managed to bring my caravan home on battery power alone (pure EV). If that works, you will be able to do the same on generated power only, as well.

As I don't max out the battery power, you will even have some generated power left to recharge the battery on the first part of your trip. For as long as you stay below approx 80 km/h.

Good point. Actually where I would be "outside" outlet zones is when I am in the northern parts of Sweden. But on those roads I might travel pretty slowly anyway...

Good question - so what would happen then if the battery has not been charged for a few days and drained on a campsite, setting off with a caravan ? would/could the petrol engine pull it ??
Thanks

Nothing would happen except just driving off. Even when "empty" the car maintains a solid electricity reserve.

I guess maybe a question for another forum, but that would be using the small engine for just the front wheels. How is that really connected? Clutch and gearbox or what?

 

[jaapv]

No it won’t; The ICE only can connect to the front wheels by direct clutch over 30 MPH. The car is always electrically (or parallel hybrid at higher speeds) driven (except over 70 MPH)- the ICE will kick in to supply extra electricity if needed in serial mode.

 

[user 991]

No it won’t; The ICE only can connect to the front wheels by direct clutch over 30 MPH. The car is always electrically (or parallel hybrid at higher speeds) driven (except over 70 MPH)- the ICE will kick in to supply extra electricity if needed in serial mode.

That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for clarifying!

 

[user 991]

Just found this online: http://aussieleaf.tumblr.com/post/108680878776/towing-a-caravan-with-our-mitsubishi-outlander

Interesting reading and he seems very happy.

 

[greendwarf]

Just found this online: http://aussieleaf.tumblr.com/post/108680878776/towing-a-caravan-with-our-mitsubishi-outlander

Interesting reading and he seems very happy.

His main complaint being the lack of more charging en-route from the ICE in Save mode. He seems to have missed that he had the solution in his own hands by using Charge when the powertrain was under least demand.

 

[anko]

If only that was true. Even when there is low power demand, there is very limited reserve available for charging. When towing a caravan, that is. Because not all available engine power reserve is used for charging. You could say the engine is lazy and tries to get away with making the same effort as it would when driving solo. See http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1057.

Must say, his caravan has a relatively small frontal area due to the low roof. So, perhaps he might have been able to maintain SOC by using Charge. But I seriously doubt it.

 

[user 991]

Yes, seems a bit too good to be fully accurate. Strange that different people has such different opinions on how good it works with a caravan.
I have a 1500kg caravan, full size meaning 2,5m wide. So really the worst I could be towing...

 

[RobOwen]

Just returned from a break on Wales with my 1500Kg Swift Challenger Sport...175 miles each way from South Cumbria to outside Barmouth. Roughly 50% motorway, 50% A roads. Managed 22mpg outbound and 20mpg return leg (but much windier today). Previously I had a Passat Alltrack 170 bhp DSG 2 litre diesel which returned 26 mpg on the same route, so I don't think that MPG is too bad at all. It just means the range on a full tank when towing is only around the 200 mile mark, whereas the Passat had a 70 litre fuel tank, doubling that range.

It's a bit of a different towing experience letting the computers work out the mix of engine/electric power, with surges of engine noise providing battery boosts at various times without any change on throttle position or rate of accelleration...but it got the job done superbly.

P.S. The car also charged overnight (twice) through a 240v socket in the caravan - my pitch was a 16 amp hook-up.

 

[Titan]

Looking forward to finding out for myself next week, when I pick up my new Eriba. Hopefully better than 20mpg, as the Eriba is 1200kg and has a nice low aspect. But we'll see.

 

[gwatpe]

When towing a caravan, it is vital to have the CHARGE mode operate from power ON. When towing there is a lot more going on with the driver, so remembering to push the button before driving off can make a critical difference with the battery reserves available.

Having the PHEV start in CHARGE or SAVE mode on Power ON can make a big difference. Factory model PHEV only comes in FLATTEN BATTERY MODE on power ON. Needs to have a user setting remembered between power button cycling.

I have made a MOD that can memorize a drivers SAVE or CHARGE mode selection, and it will be useful to any PHEV owner who has forgotten to press the button. The system requires no cutting of any wiring or powering from the car battery. The unit is powered directly from the switches and only requires 3 wires connected. Two PHEV's with the mod took under 1 hour each to splice a lead into the console wiring.

The mod just mimics a driver pressing a button when the PHEV is powered ON. The buttons can still be pressed to change the operation as needed during driving. The mod just means that in special circumstances the driver only has to drive the car and not worry that a mode button that should have been pressed earlier was forgotten to be pressed. At least every bit of battery will be available for actually towing, and none will be wasted on just EV driving because a button was not pressed at the right time.

more info here : http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1399

If anyone thinks their drive would be improved with this mod, I would consider making it available. Maybe PM me if interested.