If you haven't - Look Under the Bonnet

[Ozukus]

I'm aware that quite a few of you have, however if you haven't yet, and really want to marvel at the technology of this car, pull the release lever, lift and look under the bonnet.

It truly is a masterful piece of engineering to see the 2 engines side by side. When shown to most people who show interest in the vehicle the response is generally WOW :shock:

 

[maby]

I look under my bonnet most weeks - don't people check oil and other fluids these days?

 

[anko]

 

[Paule23]

I look under my bonnet most weeks - don't people check oil and other fluids these days?

You're supposed to check the oil? :mrgreen:

 

[maddogsetc]

I look under my bonnet most weeks - don't people check oil and other fluids these days?

In a word, no!

 

[Cymro]

as I understand it under the bonnet is 1 petrol engine and 1 hybrid unit. the electric motors are not in the bonnet.

 

[anko]

One of them is .... Very difficult to see, as it is tugged away very deep. But it is there. What you might see, on a first glance, is the generator next to the engine. And even that is covered by electronics that are part of the hybrid system.

 

[SMB]

I read somewhere that the electric motors sit on the axles front and rear.

 

[anko]

One of them is .... Very difficult to see, as it is tugged away very deep. But it is there. What you might see, on a first glance, is the generator next to the engine. And even that is covered by electronics that are part of the hybrid system.

Sorry, I messed up. This picture clarifies the layout under the bonnet:

The ICE is mounted at the other side of this drivetrain.
The generator is connected to the hole left of the center.
The generator is connected to the hole at the top right.
The hole at the bottom right is where you find the diff for the front axle.

So, the engine sits higher than the generator.

The complex thing in the center is the clutch that allows disconnecting the engine from the wheels.
The black thing at the top is the actuator for the electronic parking brake (P button), the one that goes 'klonk' when you drive off in the morning :mrgreen:

 

[ccomley]

My current car is a Discovery TD5 - I'm on stranger to the wild world of "under the bonnet".

So.... best I can work out from that photo is, the front wheels are driven *either* by the motor OR by the engine but never both at once? But if the front motor is not driving, there's more power available from the battery to the rear motor?

Anyone know if the engine can drive the front wheels *and* the generator at the same time?

(as I don't HAVE a phev yet, still trying to learn more about it than the dealer sales droids actually appear to know. THey've all been on an intensive training course on the stuff that's in all the brochures but if you've read those, you know as much as they do, possibly more, seems to me.)

 

[jaapv]

The basic drive of the car is electric, but the ICE can connect to the front wheels by a clutch at higher speeds. It can drive the generator at the same time.

 

[pkulak]

My current car is a Discovery TD5 - I'm on stranger to the wild world of "under the bonnet".

So.... best I can work out from that photo is, the front wheels are driven *either* by the motor OR by the engine but never both at once? But if the front motor is not driving, there's more power available from the battery to the rear motor?

Anyone know if the engine can drive the front wheels *and* the generator at the same time?

(as I don't HAVE a phev yet, still trying to learn more about it than the dealer sales droids actually appear to know. THey've all been on an intensive training course on the stuff that's in all the brochures but if you've read those, you know as much as they do, possibly more, seems to me.)

I had some of the same questions:

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1066

 

[anko]

Front half of the transmission permanently connects the ice to the generator. Back half of the transmission permanently connects front axle to front E-motor.

The clutch in the middle (dis)connects front half (ice + generator) and back half (axle + e-motor).

Ice can drive both the wheels and the generator at the same time. This is what generally happens in parallel drive < 125 km/h. As a matter of fact, the fromt e-motor can act as a generator (regen breaking) while the ice is still connected to the front axle.

Even when the engine is driving the front wheels, there will still be some e-power applied to the front e-motor as well, to prevent the e-motor from dragging. So, effectively, the front axle is driven by the ice and e-motor at the same time. But 'just'.

You would expect additional power from the battery primarily to go to the rear e-motor, but at low speeds that could result in more electric power being sent to the rear wheels than mechanical power to the front wheels. I can imagine they don't want that to happen (under normal road conditions) and battery power therefor can also be sent to the front e-motor.

 

[ccomley]

You would expect additional power from the battery primarily to go to the rear e-motor, but at low speeds that could result in more electric power being sent to the rear wheels than mechanical power to the front wheels. I can imagine they don't want that to happen (under normal road conditions) and battery power therefor can also be sent to the front e-motor.

I guess that depends on your view of how 4WD should work. For lots of modern "Softroaders", 2WD is standard and adding power to the back wheels is what happens when things get out of hand. But for some of us, permanent four wheel power is the norm, and it seems entirely reasonable to push the back wheels with the motor when the front wheels are being pushed by the engine. The battery output can't drive both front and rear motor at full capacity, so if I had to choose which motor to drive, when the engine is doing the hard work up front, it'd be the back!

(Land Rover driver)

 

[maby]

You would expect additional power from the battery primarily to go to the rear e-motor, but at low speeds that could result in more electric power being sent to the rear wheels than mechanical power to the front wheels. I can imagine they don't want that to happen (under normal road conditions) and battery power therefor can also be sent to the front e-motor.

I guess that depends on your view of how 4WD should work. For lots of modern "Softroaders", 2WD is standard and adding power to the back wheels is what happens when things get out of hand. But for some of us, permanent four wheel power is the norm, and it seems entirely reasonable to push the back wheels with the motor when the front wheels are being pushed by the engine. The battery output can't drive both front and rear motor at full capacity, so if I had to choose which motor to drive, when the engine is doing the hard work up front, it'd be the back!

(Land Rover driver)

Really, this only becomes an issue when you get up to around 45mph which is the minimum speed at which the direct drive to the front wheels can be engaged. Below that, drive is always electrical and applied to both axles since neither motor on its own really has the power to drive such a heavy car. Drive may continue to be electrical and 4WD up to around 70mph provided you have enough charge in the battery. Depending on the state of charge and other driving conditions, the direct drive to the front axle will engage at some point above 45mph and the vehicle does tend to fall back to 2WD on the front axle much of the time (presumably with some residual drive to the motors to eliminate drag).

I would say that there are two relatively disjoint reasons for putting 4WD on a car - one is off-road use and the other is on-road handling. Landrovers, Landcruisers etc, really have 4WD primarily for off-road use while performance sports cars like Audis have it for on-road handling - would you attempt to drive a Quattro across a ploughed field? The 4WD on the Outlander is really there for light weight off-road use - 2WD at 50 or 60mph is not really an issue, is it?

 

[ccomley]

You would expect additional power from the battery primarily to go to the rear e-motor, but at low speeds that could result in more electric power being sent to the rear wheels than mechanical power to the front wheels. I can imagine they don't want that to happen (under normal road conditions) and battery power therefor can also be sent to the front e-motor.

I guess that depends on your view of how 4WD should work. For lots of modern "Softroaders", 2WD is standard and adding power to the back wheels is what happens when things get out of hand. But for some of us, permanent four wheel power is the norm, and it seems entirely reasonable to push the back wheels with the motor when the front wheels are being pushed by the engine. The battery output can't drive both front and rear motor at full capacity, so if I had to choose which motor to drive, when the engine is doing the hard work up front, it'd be the back!

(Land Rover driver)

Really, this only becomes an issue when you get up to around 45mph which is the minimum speed at which the direct drive to the front wheels can be engaged. Below that, drive is always electrical and applied to both axles since neither motor on its own really has the power to drive such a heavy car. Drive may continue to be electrical and 4WD up to around 70mph provided you have enough charge in the battery. Depending on the state of charge and other driving conditions, the direct drive to the front axle will engage at some point above 45mph and the vehicle does tend to fall back to 2WD on the front axle much of the time (presumably with some residual drive to the motors to eliminate drag).

I would say that there are two relatively disjoint reasons for putting 4WD on a car - one is off-road use and the other is on-road handling. Landrovers, Landcruisers etc, really have 4WD primarily for off-road use while performance sports cars like Audis have it for on-road handling - would you attempt to drive a Quattro across a ploughed field? The 4WD on the Outlander is really there for light weight off-road use - 2WD at 50 or 60mph is not really an issue, is it?

NO doubt. I have, actually, two land rovers. A Defender 90 for serious playing out in the forests and mountains, and a Discovery which is primarily road going. However, the Discovery does some jobs which require some 4wd capability, such as Response work when it's snowy, and also driving round forest rally stages for events such as the Tempest rally, where I'm one of the "official" cars. The Outlander needs to be able to pick up on the latter jobs if it's to replace the Discovery, so my interest in how things actually work underneath is not just idle pondering.

 

[jaapv]

You'll be pleasantly surprised at the off-road capabilities. Not a Defender, obviously, but the top of the heap of the SUVs, due to the low-speed torque of the electric motors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRsBqa6aoo

 

[ccomley]

You'll be pleasantly surprised at the off-road capabilities. Not a Defender, obviously, but the top of the heap of the SUVs, due to the low-speed torque of the electric motors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRsBqa6aoo

Ahhh! Thanks for that. That certainly re-assures me! That's the sort of course I need to be able to get around - albeit I won't be doing it at rally speed any time soon, it'd be embarrassing to have to radio for recovery!

It also gives me an idea. I wonder how much it costs to 'wrap' a car this size. Given Mitsu's uber-dull selection of colours for the Outlander, I'm wondering if I should get a white one and wrap it in rally-comp colours. I may even take bids on sponsorship! OK, maybe not, but even without sponsor logos the orange and green highlights on that car look pretty neat.

 

[ccomley]

I see that had high level intake too. But I'm not sure I'd want to go wading given the drive battery pack and motors are all down quite low... anyone tried using one as a submarine yet? I know my Disco can go in up to just below the bonnet, due to raised breathers for the gearboxes, even without a raised air intake. (The air intake is above the left wheel arch) but I don't think it'd be smart to be the first person to take a PHEV in that deep...

 

[maby]

I see that had high level intake too. But I'm not sure I'd want to go wading given the drive battery pack and motors are all down quite low... anyone tried using one as a submarine yet? I know my Disco can go in up to just below the bonnet, due to raised breathers for the gearboxes, even without a raised air intake. (The air intake is above the left wheel arch) but I don't think it'd be smart to be the first person to take a PHEV in that deep...

People here have claimed a maximum wading depth of 40cm - which must be getting quite a lot of technical gear underneath significantly wet!