ICE Startup Parameters In Cold Weather?

[minical]

I've been noticing that my ICE always turns on during startup recently during the winter, but I have not been able to figure out what triggers it, as sometimes it turns on and sometimes it does not immediately.

Vehicle is parked outdoors, plugged in.

- Negative degree weather, sometimes on between 0 and -10; I can get it to not turn on but making sure all climate is off and only the vehicle is operating but sometimes in -5 or warmer weather, it will kick on regardless.
- Lower than -10 and it turns on in the morning
- Sometimes the ICE does not turn on, until I start picking up some speed. So moving in driveway it is off but regular driving it turns on for 15 min or so

Any idea? This is not the usual "fuel needs to be cycled within x days" as I fill up probably every 30 days from empty.

 

[nils944]

Good question, I would also like to know what the parameters are that trigger the ICE to start in cases where there is enough battery capacity to drive otherwise. Potentially the parameters are different depending on the country?

I've been able to avoid ICE starts down to say -10 Celsius by keeping the climate control off (maybe even colder but don't remember). I've noticed that pre-heating makes a difference if you want to run the climate control, and even what temperature is selected. Setting the temperature to 15 C seems to delay ICE-starts a fair bit, although normally I don't set it to lower than 18C.

I've searched for these parameters before (here and on the internet in general) without finding an answer, but we are not alone with the question.

 

[ps44]

Depends a bit on what MY, and the following is a summary of my own empirically derived understanding for UK spec.
On older models without EV mode (16MY for me), ICE will be started to provide heating when demanded cabin temperature is more than 3C above external temperature. This threshold is increased to 10C in Eco mode. This can be mitigated by pre-heating, which you should always do in cold weather if trying to avoid ICE starts. The engine will start on very cold mornings (I saw this in the UK below about -5C) whatever settings you use in order to preheat the engine should you suddenly need power from it.
On a newer model with EV mode (19MY for me), making sure EV is on before you start will suppress ICE start up even with a high cabin heat demand. I haven't yet driven the new one in very cold weather so don't know if ICE will start to pre-warm even in EV mode.
I imagine there are other factors that contribute to the behaviour, but I found Eco mode, and now EV mode, to be the main contributors.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Obviously pre-heating helps

On my 2015 pre-facelift model, if you turn off the heating all together, it won't start up at all at temperatures down to 1C. It may well work at even lower temperatures, but I've not experienced them since I discovered that turning the heating off keeps the ICE off. Thanks heavens for heated seats

 

[kpetrov]

To revive the topic:
2018 Canadian model.
Battery 90%, HVAC ventilation system set to LOWEST temp. and then completely turned OFF, EV and ECO modes ON.
Under 5 ged. Celsius ICE starts after few minutes of driving and goes off just before I reach my daily 5 km trip end. Ridiculous!

 

[greendwarf]

If you insist on living somewhere with some of the lowest winter temperatures on the planet then there are going to be compromises :roll:

 

[Fjpod]

On my 2010 Prius, which was not a plug-in, someone had come up with a small wiring hack to "fool" the sensors into thinking that the engine temp was higher than it really was. This would allow you to cruise at a little higher speed in EV, or accelerate a little faster without triggering the ICE. (24 mph instead of about 10, I believe). It would shorten or prevent the engine warm up cycle. One had to be careful in really cold weather because if you had to accelerate really quickly, and you triggered the ICE at say, 10 degrees F, you could stall the engine. It worked really well though, but it did require a little wiring under the hood.

Like everybody else, I guess, I have not figured out exactly what triggers the ICE on my 2020 Outlander, US. I will try using EV and ECO mode. Really cold weather has not quite set in here in NYC. My usual commute to work is so short, that I normally don't even turn the heat on...ICE or otherwise. Just use the seat warmers.

Then there is the final realization that if you have to heat the cabin in really cold weather, it is infinitely better and more efficient to do it with the ICE. Hey... push the charge button and get some charge while you get some real heat.

 

[kpetrov]

If you insist on living somewhere with some of the lowest winter temperatures on the planet then there are going to be compromises :roll:

I don't insist it is what it is. Actually under - 5C I will start the ICE by myself anyway but don't see the point of ICE kicking in halfway my trip just to be ready when I turn off the vehicle.
Seems there isn't any problem to run on EV mode only for few miles since the ICE don't start immediately.
Seems previous models run on EV mode only when no demand for heating.
Obviously it is an intentional software coding from Mitsu so they can be on a safe side. The option to choose could have been given if you don't plan to go on the main roads and without heating demand. Previous models run on EV mode in -20 without heating demand.
The compromise is on Mitsu side. One way or the other I will disable the ICE from running when not needed.

Same here Fjpod
Will start with ambient temp. sensor parallel potmeter and a switch and will move to ICE coolant temp. sensor if not successful.

 

[msmatt]

I have the same situation as you kpetrov, 2018 Canadian model, and I find close to 0C and below, the ICE can't be prevented from starting. It does seem that if I pre-heat for 10-20 minutes, it had less tendency to start. I don't know why, but I'm guessing the pre-heating also has an effect on the battery. Either the IR losses inside the battery, or else the coolant itself could heat it up and raise the trigger point by a few degrees.

I park in a garage that usually stays above 0C in the winter so have the benefit of that, plus my commute is 17km each way, which is very close to the battery range when it is cold, so I expect it to start anyway. You are right, a 5 km commute is awkward for how Mitsubishi programmed the car. It's probably also the reason why Canadian PHEV's have an unusually frequent oil change schedule.

There is a guy in North Bay who has the same car as us, and made a bunch of videos a few years ago about how to maximize EV mode in -20C to -25C temperatures. Search for Gary Reed Unfrequented World on YouTube. They're quite informative and entertaining!

 

[jaapv]

The reason for the short oil change schedule appears to be a difference in oil specifications between the American continent and for instance Europe. In Europe, including countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, which have a similar climate to Canada, the oil change interval is 20.000 km.

 

[jaapv]

I don't insist it is what it is. Actually under - 5C I will start the ICE by myself anyway but don't see the point of ICE kicking in halfway my trip just to be ready when I turn off the vehicle.
Seems there isn't any problem to run on EV mode only for few miles since the ICE don't start immediately.
Seems previous models run on EV mode only when no demand for heating.
[...]

Older models start the ICE the moment the car is switched on, not after a few kms.

 

[greendwarf]

Apart from BC most of Canada has a continental climate, more akin to Russia, whereas most of Scandinavia benefits from the Gulf Stream - so on average colder in winter than Europe.

 

[kpetrov]

I don't insist it is what it is. Actually under - 5C I will start the ICE by myself anyway but don't see the point of ICE kicking in halfway my trip just to be ready when I turn off the vehicle.
Seems there isn't any problem to run on EV mode only for few miles since the ICE don't start immediately.
Seems previous models run on EV mode only when no demand for heating.
[...]

Older models start the ICE the moment the car is switched on, not after a few kms.

Seems that guy vehicle do not start the ICE if heating is not turned on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnFZd-9tNPw

 

[kpetrov]

Update:
I fooled the ambient temperature sensor to -5C when real 20C outside and the ICE did not kicked in at all.
It is not the ambient temperature sensor that start the engine or at least it is not only that sensor responsible.

 

[jcolvin]

To revive the topic:
2018 Canadian model.
Battery 90%, HVAC ventilation system set to LOWEST temp. and then completely turned OFF, EV and ECO modes ON.
Under 5 ged. Celsius ICE starts after few minutes of driving and goes off just before I reach my daily 5 km trip end. Ridiculous!

Same here. It's quite annoying. Haven't found any way to stop it from happening. Climate control turned off. Still starts up the ice below 5 C even in EV mode. I

 

[jcolvin]

The reason for the short oil change schedule appears to be a difference in oil specifications between the American continent and for instance Europe. In Europe, including countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, which have a similar climate to Canada, the oil change interval is 20.000 km.

Is it? Or is it a sop to the dealers, who make a lot of $ on oil changes... The oil change interval is ridiculous for a mild climate like BC, I just don't follow it.

 

[kpetrov]

To revive the topic:
2018 Canadian model.
Battery 90%, HVAC ventilation system set to LOWEST temp. and then completely turned OFF, EV and ECO modes ON.
Under 5 ged. Celsius ICE starts after few minutes of driving and goes off just before I reach my daily 5 km trip end. Ridiculous!

Same here. It's quite annoying. Haven't found any way to stop it from happening. Climate control turned off. Still starts up the ice below 5 C even in EV mode. I

I'm driving with disabled engine for few months now and very satisfied. You can try it. More details in topic "Let's stop ICEheat, when cold"

 

[greendwarf]

The reason for the short oil change schedule appears to be a difference in oil specifications between the American continent and for instance Europe. In Europe, including countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, which have a similar climate to Canada, the oil change interval is 20.000 km.

Is it? Or is it a sop to the dealers, who make a lot of $ on oil changes... The oil change interval is ridiculous for a mild climate like BC, I just don't follow it.

Yes - this subject was done to death here a couple of years ago with a great deal of technical detail. If you make a personal decision based on your local climate fine, but in a contiguous market like N America, the manufacturer needs to have specifications that cover the full range of possible environments - you have Ralph Nader to blame for that. :lol: