Getting Gas Engine to charge Drive Battery Pack with cell voltage is low

[AGHT]

Greetings.

I have a 2013 Outlander PHEV (Japanese domestic model) and when the original 12v aux battery needed to be replaced, it took over a year to get a replacement that worked, and so the car was parked without charging for over a year. When the new 12v battery was put in, the head unit comes on, but it will not go into drive, and it will not allow charging via either charging port.

Using a ThinkDiag OBD tool/app, their diagnostic report gives a Cell Voltage Low error CMU07 (we managed to clear the other errors but that one remains).
Is there
(1) a way to get the gas engine to come on and charge the battery, or
(2) some way to clear the error and allow the external port to charge it, or
(3) some other way to charge the drive battery pack via a direct port to it to get it to a high enough level for the gas engine to take over the charging,
or some other way to solve this problem?

 

[AndyInOz]

I don't think you can start the engine without sufficient voltage in the drive battery.

I'm not sure if the engine is turned over via the GKN e-Motion gearbox from the front electric motor, or if it is the generator running in reverse, but, I am sure that the main drive battery provides the grunt.

If you can find an electric vehicle specialist in Jamaica (or perhaps an electrical engineer), you may be able to remove the whole battery box, and replace the damaged cells.

We do have one company that does that kind of work, that is represented on this forum.

Hopefully that member will see your post and offer advice.

 

[littlescrote]

The ability to charge the Drive battery through either the DC or AC ports should only require the 12V Aux battery to be healthy.

 

[drwho]

I don't think you can start the engine without sufficient voltage in the drive battery.

I'm not sure if the engine is turned over via the GKN e-Motion gearbox from the front electric motor, or if it is the generator running in reverse, but, I am sure that the main drive battery provides the grunt.

If you can find an electric vehicle specialist in Jamaica (or perhaps an electrical engineer), you may be able to remove the whole battery box, and replace the damaged cells.

We do have one company that does that kind of work, that is represented on this forum.

Hopefully that member will see your post and offer advice.

If the car won't start without a sufficient battery charge, is the a safety warning sound and message to let the driver know to set the system to charge mode before they inadvertently put the PHEV system in emergency no-start mode?

 

[DaveL59]

If the main battery has been allowed to go flat, then the various BMS in the battery pack may prevent charging if any cell is below the safety voltage level. What voltage levels are being reported (PHEV watchdog should show that)?

Any cell that's below 1.5v for an extended period may well be toast and need replacing.

As Andy has said, you may need to get the pack removed and opened so that the cells can be individually checked and then perhaps charged with a lithium type charger directly when removed, or replaced.

Worth a read - if the battery has started to form internal shunts, heat and worse may occur:
https://batteryuniversity.com/artic...discharged batteries can,for a week or longer.

If you plan on doing this disassembly yourself, take great care as it is a high voltage assembly and correct precautions need to be taken.

 

[bathalaa]

Try disconnecting the 12V battery for a few minutes to reset the system. Reconnect it to see if it solves the issue.

 

[AGHT]

Tried it, but the same problem and error code continues

If the car won't start without a sufficient battery charge, is the a safety warning sound and message to let the driver know to set the system to charge mode before they inadvertently put the PHEV system in emergency no-start mode?

It used to switch on the gas engine if the main battery was low while driving. In this case, the the 12v battery went flat while the car was parked, so it never switched on the engine or gave an alert.

 

[AGHT]

If the main battery has been allowed to go flat, then the various BMS in the battery pack may prevent charging if any cell is below the safety voltage level. What voltage levels are being reported (PHEV watchdog should show that)?

Any cell that's below 1.5v for an extended period may well be toast and need replacing.

As Andy has said, you may need to get the pack removed and opened so that the cells can be individually checked and then perhaps charged with a lithium type charger directly when removed, or replaced.

Worth a read - if the battery has started to form internal shunts, heat and worse may occur:
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808a-how-to-awaken-a-sleeping-li-ion#:~:text=Some over-discharged batteries can,for a week or longer.

If you plan on doing this disassembly yourself, take great care as it is a high voltage assembly and correct precautions need to be taken.

Very useful information and article link, I will check the cell voltage levels, thanks.

 

[AGHT]

Try disconnecting the 12V battery for a few minutes to reset the system. Reconnect it to see if it solves the issue.

Tried it, but the problems persists....

 

[AGHT]

If the main battery has been allowed to go flat, then the various BMS in the battery pack may prevent charging if any cell is below the safety voltage level. What voltage levels are being reported (PHEV watchdog should show that)?

Any cell that's below 1.5v for an extended period may well be toast and need replacing.

As Andy has said, you may need to get the pack removed and opened so that the cells can be individually checked and then perhaps charged with a lithium type charger directly when removed, or replaced.

Worth a read - if the battery has started to form internal shunts, heat and worse may occur:
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808a-how-to-awaken-a-sleeping-li-ion#:~:text=Some over-discharged batteries can,for a week or longer.

If you plan on doing this disassembly yourself, take great care as it is a high voltage assembly and correct precautions need to be taken.

Very useful information and article link, I will check the cell voltage levels, thanks.

Got the measurements - most of the cells are at 3.7v, but one of them is at 2.7v and another at 2.1v. Can those two LEV40 cells be rehabilitated? I hear that the LEV40 cells are no longer available. If they need to be replaced, can those two LEV40 cells be replaced with LEV46 cells, and where in Japan can they be ordered from?

 

[DaveL59]

Not looked at the dimensions, but if extracted it MAY be possible to get those low cells charged, tho how well they'd perform after is down to luck. There is someone here in the UK who rebuilds battery units using recovered cells tho that's no use to you of course.

Best bet for compatibility might be to try to source good used LEV40's, probably and then get the pack rebuilt. Sourcing from a newer model and getting them shipped likely has its own complications of course.

Someone here did rebuild the entire pack with bigger capacity cells so have a search, tho IIRC he also did some firmware mods.