Flappy Paddle Cynic

[bdbdbd]

I agree. If you're using B5 and then brake the amount of regeneration increases.

 

[PolishPilot]

I agree. If you're using B5 and then brake the amount of regeneration increases.

So it seems my observation was correct.
B5 not only increases the regenerating braking power
on lifting the gas pedal, but also when pressing the brake pedal.

I will keep using B5 all the time.

 

[ccomley]

So far I've only had a test drive. But I quickly decided that the sane setting was "B5". I have NO issues with lifting off the power causing retardation. I'm used to a land rover diesel, which at nearly 20:1 compression, slows down markedly if you lift off the power completely. (I note that the Tesla EV system also provides considerable regenerative braking when you lift off, and indeed Tesla suggest you drive that way most of the time and rarely need to touch the brake pedal.)

The only thing I don't get is why they decided on the stupid paddles. It seems to me a setting which you set once, having tried out the various settings to see which you like best, and then leave it set for-ever. Or, at worst, you might change it occasionally under some exceptional circumstance. Putting it on paddles suggests that you might need to be changing it several times a minute for the entire time you're driving! It needs to be a switch on the dash or down near the gear select.

 

[maby]

So far I've only had a test drive. But I quickly decided that the sane setting was "B5". I have NO issues with lifting off the power causing retardation. I'm used to a land rover diesel, which at nearly 20:1 compression, slows down markedly if you lift off the power completely. (I note that the Tesla EV system also provides considerable regenerative braking when you lift off, and indeed Tesla suggest you drive that way most of the time and rarely need to touch the brake pedal.)

The only thing I don't get is why they decided on the stupid paddles. It seems to me a setting which you set once, having tried out the various settings to see which you like best, and then leave it set for-ever. Or, at worst, you might change it occasionally under some exceptional circumstance. Putting it on paddles suggests that you might need to be changing it several times a minute for the entire time you're driving! It needs to be a switch on the dash or down near the gear select.

I do think that they expected it to be used primarily for long down-hill runs with the paddles being used actively to control speed - that is certainly the way that I use them. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the way you are using the regen braking, I think it is simply not what the designers anticipated.

They are never going to satisfy everyone, are they? I would actually prefer an option to reconfigure them as a hand-throttle - I drive on cruise control much of the time and that little switch on the steering wheel is pretty inconvenient to control speed.

 

[Titan]

Agreed. I change the level of regen a lot, from simple coasting to full-on braking, and the paddles are a great benefit. If there is a slight decline I might want to have B0-B1 to maintain speed without using battery to steeper slopes where B4-B5 are more effective. Maintaining momentum is best for energy preservation.

 

[ccomley]

They are never going to satisfy everyone, are they? I would actually prefer an option to reconfigure them as a hand-throttle - I drive on cruise control much of the time and that little switch on the steering wheel is pretty inconvenient to control speed.

Hmm. Might be an idea to make them "soft" and allow drivers to choose what they're configured for. I take your point about speed control in CC. My Astra, the buttons are on the end of the left stalk. Liz's Merc, there's a whole stalk dedicated to CC on the left of the steering column, so a quick up-flick increases speed by 1mph and pushing it all the way up by 5mph, etc. I could see with the outlander layout that doing that with the paddles would be a lot more sensible.

 

[ccomley]

Agreed. I change the level of regen a lot, from simple coasting to full-on braking, and the paddles are a great benefit. If there is a slight decline I might want to have B0-B1 to maintain speed without using battery to steeper slopes where B4-B5 are more effective. Maintaining momentum is best for energy preservation.

Agreed, but if you dont' want the full B5 level of retarding, just don't lift your foot all the way off the pedal!

 

[Titan]

Agreed. I change the level of regen a lot, from simple coasting to full-on braking, and the paddles are a great benefit. If there is a slight decline I might want to have B0-B1 to maintain speed without using battery to steeper slopes where B4-B5 are more effective. Maintaining momentum is best for energy preservation.

Agreed, but if you dont' want the full B5 level of retarding, just don't lift your foot all the way off the pedal!

Ah but it's nice to be able to "rest" the right foot occasionally

 

[ccomley]

Agreed, but if you dont' want the full B5 level of retarding, just don't lift your foot all the way off the pedal!

Ah but it's nice to be able to "rest" the right foot occasionally [/quote]

Yes, that's what cruise-control is for. But when you're in the middle of a 'situation', you won't be on CC.

 

[Ozukus]

Interestingly enough on my return trip from the office today I tried B0 as a setting, aka Coast Mode, to see whether it improved MPG.

Found that the first inch of the accelerator pedal was effectively dead space, which is the space reserved for the Accelerator performing B0 to B5 if you had the car set at B5.

As for MPG I found that my average MPG dropped by about 4PMG over my 60 mile run (return trip is with an empty battery as no charge points at the office), normally in the low 40's, achieved high 30's, so coast mode sort of shows that regen does add a lot of benefit.

As for the paddles, another thing I found is that I can drop it to B5 just using the gear stick. Just pull back on the gear stick a few times.

 

[ccomley]

Well surely Regen brake settings can only *reduce* your MPG if you take your foot off the power too much and "brake" when you meant to "cruise". Then you have to speed up again which uses power. If regen braking and motor power were both 100% efficient, then that would be neutral - any speed lots being turned into battery charge would match the battery charge lost when speeding up again. But neither process is 100% efficient. So if you regen-brake then speed up again you will end up with less charge in the battery, and/or less petrol in the tank, than if you had not slowed down. But you would lose even MORE charge/petrol if you slowed down the same amount without regen braking (either by using the brakes, or just allowing the speed to bleed off) then speeded up again.

Some friends of ours have a Prius. HE gets much better MPG overall than she does. And reading between the lines she gets tetchy if he keeps asking what her MPG is when she's driving, so I guess there's been more conversations and nagging in the past! He often uses the gear lever to put the car in regen braking mode when slowing down and she just treats it like an ordinary "automatic" car and uses the brake. I also have another friend with a Toyota who recons to get pretty good mpg, another friend does NOT have one coz he test drove one for two days and couldn't get anything LIKE the reported MPG figures. So I guess it does depend on driving style and on the use of regen braking in particular.

SO I guess it's good that it's a choice, but if you want the best possible overall consumption figures both miles per gallon and miles per kilowatthour, use regen braking as often as possible and the brakes only in an emergency.

 

[maby]

I generally get far better fuel economy out of any car than my wife in the same vehicle - but I'm pretty sure that is because I drive on cruise control almost all the time while she does not know how to engage it.

 

[Hypermiler]

Whether you use B5 or B0 as your default will require different styles of driving. I use B0 and try to glide down slight inclines where possible. I also paddle up to slow down where I can/need to. Not sure you can just switch from B5 to B0 for a journey and say that one or other had a higher/lower mpg - it is a different approach. I suppose it also depends how much feathering of the gas pedal you are doing to control regen.

It also depends what you are coming from - I am used to gliding as much as possible in a Prius which always seems to be the best way to drive it...

I get better mpg out of any car than my OH (there's a claim!). But OH just drives, and a bit faster than me and doesn't mind re using the brakes regularly (doesn't plan ahead so well) whereas I find I often use the PHEV brakes just to show the lights.

I agree with maby - in my opinion the car was not designed to be driven in B5 all the time. I also feel you may wear your battery out a little earlier than us B0'ers. Though I will probably wear my paddles out fairly soon!
Cheers
H