EV cruising range

[SimonR73]

I've had my Outlander PHEV VRX for 8 months and done 3,600km. At new, after a full overnight battery charge (not a fast charge), the EV column bar was at 100% and the EV cruising range was given on the information panel as 56km, consistent with Mitsubishi's literature. Over the past 8 months that EV cruising range after a full charge has been gradually reducing and is now 43km (the column bar is still at 100%). I've had the vehicle checked and the technician gave it a clean bill of health and informed me I should expect the battery capacity to reduce in cold weather and assured me the EV cruising range would return to 56km in the summer.

I am surprised at such a significant reduction in the EV cruising range. Can any Outlander PHEV owner confirm whether this is normal or not?

I'm in New Zealand and purchased in October 2018 so the EV cruising range was reducing gradually during the summer. It's now winter and although it's cooler the temperature has yet to fall below zero deg C. I have not needed to use the heater or air conditioning yet (except to familiarise myself with the controls immediately after purchase.)

Any views or comments very welcome.

 

[Stevepl11]

I also have 2018 VRX, yes I'm a Kiwi too. I got mine in May this year but as it was a dealer demo vehicle it was 8 months old with less than 400km on the clock. Mine is showing at best 47km range after normal charging at home. Last night I ran it down to minimum and it took 9.6kWh to charge overnight and it shows 47km.

What you need to know is that the BMU estimates battery degradation and routinely reduces the State of Health (SoH) value by 0.1 AmpHours and apparently by some greater amount from time to time according to its own algorithm. Us mortals will probably never fully understand the rationale behind that. But it is normal and unlikely to have anything much to do with summer and winter.

There are a couple of quite helpful youtubers that give a lot of info if you can be bothered with some 240 videos from Andy of "UnpluggedEV" in Australia.

Have a look at that and in particular his remarks about the "triple procedure" as he termed it. This is a BMU reset, Cell Smoothing, and DBCAM. That last one is Drive Battery Capacity Automatic Measurement, and it writes the actual State of Health of the battery into the BMU (Battery Management Unit or is it Battery Monitoring Unit?)

It appears that normal capacity of 38AH or near to it is restored by this. The Battery is actually 40AH but is derated to 38 by Mitsubishi to allow for possible degradation post manufacture. The whole process of estimating the degradation of SoH seems to be intended to ensure the battery is not physically abused by over charging or over discharging and to maintain a 3kWh buffer for hybrid operation after the EV range is used up.

 

[AndyInOz]

I've had mine for quite a while now, and my rule of thumb is:

1. I need to charge it twice per week in summer; and,
2. I need to charge it three times per week in winter.

Winters are quite mild over here (no snow) so...

YMMV.

 

[jaapv]

"Showing 47 km". That is not an accurate meter. It is an estimate based on your previous drive. It is known on the forum as the "guessometer". The range is mainly determined by your driving style. Use a lead right foot and you'll be lucky to get to 75% of the nominal range, perfect an adapted driving style and you may well exceed it. One important trick: After accelerating to your cruising speed, let up a small amount on your right foot. The car will maintain speed, but you will see the power meter drop significantly.

 

[SimonR73]

Thanks very much for that Stevepl11. Although I haven't followed up your references yet, I get the impression that you aren't too surprised by my predicament?

When I selected the Outlander PHEV over other alternatives, one reason was that 54km (correction from my initial post) EV cruising distance. I don't travel much, but my weekly excursion to the nearest shops is a 48km round trip. So I assumed that most of my shopping trips could be done petrol-free. And, just after purchase they were. Now that is not the case I feel cheated. And that 43km seems to be reducing further every day!

Is there something I missed when I went though all the product specifications? Some small print somewhere? Although I accept that there may be battery burn-in and ageing I feel that a 20% reduction in EV cruising distance after only 3,600km and eight months is unacceptable. If this is "normal" I feel a purchaser should have been warned about expecting such a dramatic deterioration at the outset, otherwise I believe the product specifications could perhaps be construed as misleading.

Thanks also jaapv. I take your point. But I don't think my driving style has changed over the past eight months, nor has the same regular (undemanding) route I take weekly (max speed probably 70km/hr, no hills). So why should the guessometer give gradually reducing values over an eight month period? And, incidentally, the nominal range given on the instrument panel has always aligned to within 1km with the distance I travel before the battery runs out. Whether it's 52km or 43km.

 

[Steel188]

The programmimg behind the guessometer takes time to learn your driving style and you're only doing around 100Km a week (my car is just over 3 years old and has nearly 105,000 miles - 168,000Km) so it isn't unreasonable for it to take some time to settle down.

These cars are very sensitive to heat and cold and the batteries perform best during the inbetween months of Spring and Autum.

Also, unless you live on a massive salt flat (please forgive me if you do) there may not be hills as such, but there will certainly be fluctuations from level ground and it will take more energy to get up them than the car can recover on the way down.

Now comes the tricky bit, which I do not pretend to fully understand - aerodynamics. Our cars weigh around 1800Kg and are about as aerodynamic as a house brick and you're expecting it to part the air at upto 70Kmh (43mph) and it not effect the published potential range (UK literature says up to 28 miles). You can't expect it to do that at open road speeds - do you? Next time you make the shopping trip set the cruise control at 50Kmh and see how far you get. Drag is not a straight line on the graph.

Your literature will say up to 54Km, so depending on where you live, the climate, terrain, driving style, vehicle load, tyre wear, road surface, weather on the day, service regime and any number of other factors will all effect the EV range. Ask the owners in Sweden or Canada with -30C in winter how far they can get on battery alone and its not very far at all, yet their batteries are just as healthy as yours!

 

[MikkB]

'Guessometer' variance apart, the bottom line is that the EV range will be much less in winter than in summer. For me that means about 25 miles in summer compared to about 14 in winter, but also varies depending on driving style, journey lengths, use if heating.. and so on.

 

[greendwarf]

I have never understood these sort of figures in the UK. I know I live in London which is always a few degrees higher than the countryside but I get very little difference between winter & summer.

Whilst there has been some reduction in range over the past 5 years (36,000 miles) from around 28 miles to 23 to "lose" 20% in such a short time does seem excessive.

 

[SimonR73]

Thanks to all respondents; lots of useful information.

So, forgetting about the guessometer, the bottom line for me is that when the vehicle was new the EV range was 54km (33 miles). Eight months and 3,600km later it is 43km (27 miles). So, what's changed? The same driver, doing the same journey, once a week and with the same driving conditions (no heater, no air-conditioning, nothing else different I can think of). Yes, there's the weather. But there doesn't appear to be a correlation with the EV cruising distance. The vehicle was purchased in early summer (October in New Zealand), the average temperature rose for several months until about February / March and then began to reduce. Extreme temperatures probably 2 degC and 30 degC. But the EV cruising distance has been reducing gradually all that time and is still reducing!

My view is that if this is normal behaviour for these lithium batteries it should he highlighted in manufacturers' literature so we know what to expect. Because I feel I have been misled about the performance of this vehicle. Alternatively, there may be something amiss with my vehicle.

 

[greendwarf]

So around half your mileage has been these battery emptying trips. What about the rest of the time and how often do you charge?

 

[SimonR73]

A few times I've driven to the nearest city (275km return trip). After the first 40 - 50km of those journeys the battery is used up and I rely on petrol for the rest of the journey.

I've used a fast charger three times.

I charge at home after each journey, when the battery's flat. At an arbitrary time between journeys. No more than twice a week. Usually once.

 

[greendwarf]

Hmm - I can't see any big difference in that pattern from mine when I first got the car 5 years ago. Battery life, as I understand it, is ultimately limited by the number of complete discharge/discharge cycles - around 3000. You have done less than 100, so the loss of range in less than a year does seem excessive.

You don't say whether you are in North or South Island but it appears to be non-urban (unlike me in London), so topography could be the difference and/or driving conditions but maybe your mechanic (and others in UK :lol: ) is right about the temperature variations outside of a city.

However, given your relatively low mileage and presumably plenty of warranty left, I would have thought you can afford to leave the matter until the end of the year to see if range does come back during the summer. :idea:

 

[SimonR73]

Thanks greendwarf. I'm in a rural part of the North Island and the roads I travel are pretty benign. No steep hills. And there are no extreme temperatures. Rarely does the temperature go below freezing and rarely above 30 degC. And I'd prefer not to wait for summer. I feel that, for my particular circumstances, the deterioration is so dramatic in such a short time that something - I'm not too sure what! - should be done. If my experience really is normal for these electric cars I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry about it.

 

[jaapv]

I understand your frustration, but you must realize that driving the same journey will yield wildly varying results over time, even in a mild climate and on gentle roads. I live in the Netherlands and my daily commute will produce anything from half full to completely empty - and we are completely flat with about the same climate as you have. The only thing you can realistically do is go to your dealer and have them measured the state of health of your battery. The will have the figure at delivery and for every service if you had one already. You do have a guaranty.

 

[greendwarf]

But this might suggest there is a problem with 2018 model
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4199&p=50187&hilit=update#p50187

 

[karl]

It's not clear from this thread if you are worried about the actual driven distance or the prognosed distance.

There is absolutely not necessary to get battery angst over the prognosed distance. God knows what it reports.

If you have noticed a reduction on the driven distance, but a battery report by the dealer shows a reasonable degradation, as you mentioned, then it's probably related to external factors. You could ask at have the numbers if you think they are not reliable.

The range is especially sensitive to top speed, above 100 km/h / 60 mph, so the same road at 120 km/h will use up the battery much faster than at 110. It also seems to me that the battery starts to have a reduced capacity at even quite mild temperatures. I seem to get much farther when it's 25°C than at 15, regardless of heating or AC settings.

 

[SimonR73]

The actual driven distance has always been within one or two km of the prognosed distance. The EV cruising range as indicated on the instrument panel after a 100% charge has consistently been the same as the actual driving distance. And that was true on purchase when the distance was 54km and now when the distance is 43km. So, it seems the guessometer is pretty accurate for me.

The local Mitsubishi dealer tested my vehicle a couple of weeks ago. I don't know the details of exactly what he did but he reported to me that the battery was fine. He attributed my problem to the cooler weather which, as I mentioned above, I have my doubts about.

I have never reached 100km/hr, and for nearly all my journeys the roads are such that I rarely exceed 70km/hr.

 

[MikkB]

I have never understood these sort of figures in the UK. I know I live in London which is always a few degrees higher than the countryside but I get very little difference between winter & summer.

Whilst there has been some reduction in range over the past 5 years (36,000 miles) from around 28 miles to 23 to "lose" 20% in such a short time does seem excessive.

I do a lot of short (c 5m) journeys and do use heating which doesn't help. Outside temp definitely affects range though.

 

[KWh]

I don't know the details of exactly what he did but he reported to me that the battery was fine. He attributed my problem to the cooler weather which, as I mentioned above, I have my doubts about.

How did he report this to you exactly? With a battery report that includes the state of health, or just by telling you all is ok.

I don’t have experience with Mitsubishi dealers yet and also never visited any dealership in New Zealand. I did have my fair share of bull s#*t fed to me by dealerships of the VW group and learned that in these kind of situations, I need a bit more insurance then a smile, a tap on the shoulder and the words that all is ok

 

[Hypermiler]

In my experience (5 years 55k miles) I would say if you have gone from weather of say 20-25 degrees c to maybe 5 degrees then that will have a pretty big impact on range. My battery is on 81% health and at 20 degrees I can get up to around 25 miles but below 7 degrees probably max 20 (gentle driving no heating/cooling).
Cheers
H