Depleted Battery = No Drive. Anyone experience this?

[AutoE]

Our 2014 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV appears to have a MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE. DRIVE IS NOT ENGAGING when battery is low.

We've been suffering a severely depleted traction battery on our 2014 Outlander PHEV for nearly 2 year. Mitsubishi/Israel importer finally agreed to replace, but it's starting to seem it's as much a "cover-up" of a major safety issue as a warranty repair.

IMHO there's a major safety issue with our 2014 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. When driven 20-30km and parked, battery depleted, upon returning to the vehicle there is occasionally no forward drive. Absolutely NO forward drive. We've repeatedly brought this issue to the dealer without any resolution. Though they are now replacing the battery, this is a real safety issue that’s caused real damage and needs address.

A few weeks ago while attempting to exit a parking garage, I backed up out of the parking space and put the car into drive. When I pressed the accelerator down fully, flooring it, there was NO response from the engine! It rolled backward into a building column before I could hit the brakes. Just yesterday, I blocked several cars trying to exit as the Outlander PHEV would only crawl forward for several minutes; maybe 2-3kph despite the gas being floored and the engine running at high rpm.

HELP! This is very, very dangerous. This has not only happened to my wife and I, both a neighbor and employee experiencd the absence of any drive. I've a half-dozen more examples of our Outlander PHEV acting unpredictably with a depleted battery, including it rolling back into me when I attached a trailer a few months ago!

I've tried reaching Mitsubishi EU to no avail. I think it time to bring this to the EU regulators but not sure where to start. I appreciate the collective wisdom of the board.

 

[greendwarf]

Sounds as though it is going into Neutral rather than Drive - faulty gear selector? Can't see that it is anything to do with battery.

 

[AutoE]

No, not that. If we park the PHEV on a flat surface with a depleted battery, when we start it again you'll hear the engine running at high RPM. When we floor it, gas fully depressed, it either barely moves forward or doesn't move at all for anywhere from 5 seconds to a minute. It appears the engines "first priority" is charging a depleted battery and not propulsion. It can be several minutes before the vehicle is functioning normally.

 

[elm70]

20-30km with AC on, and decent speed .. it can fully discharge and even over discharge the PHEV main battery.

I bet, the BMU believe that the SOH is more then what it is in reality, and this cause to over-discharge the battery while you are driving it.

It would be interesting to know which level of voltage and stage of charge has your PHEV after left parked in the situation you experience the problem. (Ideally check this at the end of the trip and just before restart after the parking time)

I think Mitsubishi need to correct the SOH in your BMU (this is cheap), or replace the main battery (this would be quite expensive)

 

[AutoE]

Mitsubishi finally agreed to replace the battery. It's been losing range since mid-2015. What's disconcerting is that the vehicle is simply DANGEROUS now. I believe they removed or dramatically reduced the buffer about a year ago restoring about 30km or range but as the battery continued to deteriorate this issue appeared. It makes some sense that the engine should be engaged to prevent battery damage but not to the extent that there is no forward drive!

 

[anko]

What I don't understand is this:

..., including it rolling back into me when I attached a trailer a few months ago!

That cannot be related to "having no drive", can it? Or do you consider this to be a separate issue?

 

[AutoE]

I'm thinking it's the same issue. Pulled out of parking space, colleague depressed the brake and I hitched the trailer. Released brake, gave it gas and rather than driving forward, rolled backward. I'd like to see Mitsubishi corporate addressing this. Israel distributor knows nothing, does nothing, takes no responsibility. Someone is going to get seriously injured.

 

[greendwarf]

I'm thinking it's the same issue. Pulled out of parking space, colleague depressed the brake and I hitched the trailer. Released brake, gave it gas and rather than driving forward, rolled backward. I'd like to see Mitsubishi corporate addressing this. Israel distributor knows nothing, does nothing, takes no responsibility. Someone is going to get seriously injured.

Which is why I still use the handbrake to make a hill start, rather than rely on modern gizmos. :roll:

However, if there is no battery available then there will be "no drive" initially as the ICE drives the generator which charges the battery which powers the electric motors. But nobody else has reported this, so it must be a one-off in your car and surely a control problem not the battery itself :?:

 

[anko]

I'm thinking it's the same issue.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[anko]

However, if there is no battery available then there will be "no drive" initially as the ICE drives the generator which charges the battery which powers the electric motors. But nobody else has reported this, so it must be a one-off in your car and surely a control problem not the battery itself :?:

I tend to agree. Also, the same battery that powers the car is also needed to crank up the ice. So, it cannot be that dead.

 

[AutoE]

Not correct. The Outlander PHEV has parallel drive and a separate starter battery that may be found in the trunk. What does this mean? If there is NO traction battery (battery that powers the electric motor) because it is at 0% SOC then the Outlander engine should start and power the drivetrain, but it does not start and power the drivetrain. If the traction battery is depleted when the Outlander is started the engine will run at high rpm to apparently charge the traction battery. Only once the traction battery is charged to some unknown or indeterminate level will engine power be available for the drivetrain.
This is not right. There is an error here that seems to be beyond the technical skills and/or understanding of the local distributor. I say this as the importer and distributor of the leading electric motorcycle and scooter manufacturers having seen a diversity of issues with HW, SW, FW implementation and update that is often not as expected.
I believe there's no doubt that the Mediterranean sun is having a deleterious impact on the battery life. There vast majority of vehicles here are parked on the street and whether its 30C or 40C outside, in the sun, the radiant heat from black asphalt can exceed 60-70C and cook the battery.

 

[anko]

Not correct. The Outlander PHEV has parallel drive and a separate starter battery that may be found in the trunk. What does this mean? If there is NO traction battery (battery that powers the electric motor) because it is at 0% SOC then the Outlander engine should start and power the drivetrain, but it does not start and power the drivetrain. If the traction battery is depleted when the Outlander is started the engine will run at high rpm to apparently charge the traction battery. Only once the traction battery is charged to some unknown or indeterminate level will engine power be available for the drivetrain.

Not true.

There is no starter battery in the trunk. There is a small aux battery in the trunk, but this is NOT used to start the ICE. The ICE is started by the generator, using power from the traction battery.

ICE power will be available for driving even with a very, very low SOC. Even when SoC is way below what you will normally encounter, the ICE will continue to source power to the motors when needed. Only when SoC gets as low as 14%, the car will come to a stop. I have not heard of anybody getting below approx. 18%.

 

[AutoE]

Not thinking that's correct. A few months ago I left the hazard lights on and with the traction battery depleted I had to jump start the Outlander. Battery in the trunk read 11v.

 

[anko]

Not thinking that's correct. A few months ago I left the hazard lights on and with the traction battery depleted I had to jump start the Outlander. Battery in the trunk read 11v.

Of course. This has happened to me more than once when when I was reverse engineering the traffic on the CANBUS with the car in ON mode but not READY mode.

The aux battery is needed to boot all of the computers (including the one for the OnBoard Charger :lol: ) and to open the main relay for the HV battery. Without it, the car will not boot (go into READY mode) and no HV power will be available to start the ICE (which won't happen without computers anyway). But booting the computers is something else than cranking up the ICE

When 'jump starting' you can remove the jumper cables as soon as the car is in ready mode. Even when the ICE is not yet running. Basically, you could use a little portable 12 volt battery to achieve this.

Funny detail: when you deplete the aux battery with a still full HV battery, such as I did, you must 'jump start' the AUX battery. After you have done so, you must leave the car in READY mode for some time allowing the AUX battery to be recharged from the HV battery. During this time, the DRLs will be on. I have had people ringing my doorbell more than once, warning me my lights were still on and I risked depleting my 12 volt battery. I then had to be very careful not to piss them off, while explaining them I was actually charging my 12 volt battery.